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Posted: 2/8/2024 10:19:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
Like the title says... BH confirmed this to me in a phone call.
It was brought to my attention , on another forum. He had gotten the same response. Sometimes I feel like I am the last learn stuff... Lol The Mk262 Mod 1-C still uses the Sierra 77gr MatchKing. The 5.56 OTM 77gr Hornady loaded in the 5.56 77gr OTM, still goes through the same accuracy requirements / standards that BH's applies to the Mk262 Mod 1-C. Just thought others would like to know. ( And I specifically asked if they "meant" the Hornady 75gr OTM, and was corrected... it IS a Hornady 77gr OTM ) I wasn't aware Hornady made a 77gr OTM .224 bullet. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
I don’t believe it.
SMK or nothing. |
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Originally Posted By MemeWarfare: I don’t believe it. SMK or nothing. View Quote Phone 'em. And FWIW... https://eagleeyeguns.com/500-round-sealed-case-black-hills-ammunition-factory-new-d556n9-5-56-nato-77-grain-sierra-matchking-otm-in-50-round-boxes-identical-to-the-mk262-mod1-used-by-u-s-military-free-shipping/?variant=257 Quote from that link... "Factory Fresh 500 round Case Black Hills Ammunition Factory New D556N9: 5.56mm 77 Grain Open Tip Match with Hornady 77 Grain BTHP bullet and Lake City Brass in ten 50 round boxes. OTM = Hollow Point Boat Tail. We have been a Black Hills dealer since 2015. Black Hills produces factory new rifle ammunition equal to some of the best handloads. It is quickly becoming one of most popular manufacturers of ammunition. Used primarily by all branches of the United State military, this ammunition is also used by competitive shooters and hunters. "The 77 grain MK262 ammunition produced by Black Hills Ammunition has been referred to as the most accurate mass-produced 5.56mm ammunition that has ever been type-classified and issued by the US military. Since its inception, genuine MK262 has been manufactured solely by Black Hills Ammunition. For years, MK262 was only available to the civilian population as cosmetic seconds, but more recently Black Hills has made first-run production lots available on the commercial market." Molon posting on lightfighter.com Starting in 2023, Black Hills has been using Hornady projectiles in the red box 5.56 77gr OTM. Before then, it was always a Sierra projectile. This ammunition is loaded with Lake City brass that has undergone factory annealing which extends brass life. As a result of the annealing process the neck portion of the brass may be discolored until the case is cleaned. The MK262 is what the military uses. The 5.56 77gr MK262 MOD 1-C (ammo can) is the commercial version of the MK262 and is also produced with a Sierra projectile. We currently have in stock 460 Rounds of Black Hills 77gr OTM cartridges with the Sierra projectile in Mil-Pack Ammo Cans MP460556N9 We also have in stock Black Hills D556N19. This is the 77gr OTM projectile with a Sierra Tipped Match King bullet. The addition of the polymer tip improves upon the external ballistics by significantly increasing ballistic coefficient from .373 to .420. What this means is that the TMK projectile is much more resistant to both drag and wind, meaning it flies flatter and straighter in adverse conditions. The tip also improves terminal ballistics, increasing uniformity of performance and penetration when the projectile arrives on target. Please Note: While the 5.56x45mm NATO will fit in a .223 Remington chamber, the 5.56 is a military round that runs at higher pressures than its .223 counterpart and is not recommended to be fired in a .223 Remington chamber. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Didn't they use Nosler 77gr bullets in some of the first lots that had great terminal performance?
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
I did not either. Wish they were available as a component. I do love their 75gr BTHP.
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OP:
And this one says Sierra................. https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/products/5-56-77gr-black-hills-sierra-matchking-open-tip-match-d556n9 So can you call them back and get them to send you an email or update their online site? Not calling you a liar but there are yes/no/maybe out there.................. and nothing on their website. |
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Originally Posted By TGH456E: OP: And this one says Sierra................. https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/products/5-56-77gr-black-hills-sierra-matchking-open-tip-match-d556n9 So can you call them back and get them to send you an email or update their online site? Not calling you a liar but there are yes/no/maybe out there.................. and nothing on their website. View Quote @TGH456E I understand, I was very skeptical myself, but the individual at BH's was adamant it is a 77gr Horn. OTM. And the comments flowed like they had said it more than a couple of times. I asked very specific questions, using their BH nomenclature, and not a single beat was missed, Flat out , straight, direct, specific answers. I saw the BFGC listing, and I e-mailed BFGC a few hours earlier and asked how new their on hand D556N9 is. Hopefully they get back to me tomorrow. I did mention the Horn. bullet aspect, and asked if they had a "inside line" at BH's... so maybe they could confirm. I think I will e-mail BH's after finishing this comment. Worth a try !! |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
I can not find an e-mail to Black Hills.
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
OP should follow up with hornady and get the fragmentation threshold velocities from them. Wonder if everything is the same?
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06: I can not find an e-mail to Black Hills. View Quote @bfoosh06 WORTH A TRY Seems they are stingy with email addys. |
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
"All whelchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
View Quote Thank You. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Bone Frog Gun Club confirmed their BH D556N9 was received a within the last few months.
He thought at the end of Dec... and " They ship them as fast as they can produce them." I ordered some up. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
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Sent an e-mail to Hornady. I will call Horn. later.
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Originally Posted By ar15lizard: It's true as of sometime in the first half of 2023. LC/HORN = Lake City brass/Hornady bullet https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-1vrhcizjrc/products/292/images/1881/D556N9_Case__25940.1703225021.386.513.jpg?c=1 View Quote The plot thickens... Lol Thanks for posting that. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Originally Posted By Bravo_Six: Yes. However, the mil wanted a canalure and Nosler couldn't, or wouldn't, make a Custom Comp with one, so mil changed to sierra. View Quote You sure? I am thinking I have a bulk box or two of Nosler 77 with cannalure overruns. edit, well I cannot prove my thought as I checked my stash. My bulk boxes are smooth sided, so if there was a cannalured version I bought the vanilla version. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: You sure? I am thinking I have a bulk box or two of Nosler 77 with cannalure overruns. edit, well I cannot prove my thought as I checked my stash. My bulk boxes are smooth sided, so if there was a cannalured version I bought the vanilla version. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Originally Posted By Bravo_Six: Yes. However, the mil wanted a canalure and Nosler couldn't, or wouldn't, make a Custom Comp with one, so mil changed to sierra. You sure? I am thinking I have a bulk box or two of Nosler 77 with cannalure overruns. edit, well I cannot prove my thought as I checked my stash. My bulk boxes are smooth sided, so if there was a cannalured version I bought the vanilla version. FWIW......... and I could be wrong............. but I too remember it being the reverse too............. Sierra was the first one reluctant to cannelure (out of accuracy concerns) and so Nosler stepped up. Of course now Sierra has done it for years. Money talks............. but it's also a very light cannelure. @BFoosh: I think AR15Lizard and his photo really confirmed the question................ |
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Just got off the phone with hornady
Bullet exclusively made for black hills No expansion, penetration, or BC data. Maybe black hills will have some additional info Edit*** Just got off the phone with black hills According to them the BC and jacket thickness should be identical. He was unsure what hornady changed to avoid a lawsuit but he stated it had identical performance from their testing. They may do a press release on it with the official numbers to put peoples minds at ease |
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Huh. Times are a changin’
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: Just got off the phone with hornady Bullet exclusively made for black hills No expansion, penetration, or BC data. Maybe black hills will have some additional info Edit*** Just got off the phone with black hills According to them the BC and jacket thickness should be identical. He was unsure what hornady changed to avoid a lawsuit but he stated it had identical performance from their testing. They may do a press release on it with the official numbers to put peoples minds at ease View Quote Thanks for the added info. |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
FWIW... and IMHO, a generic Horn. response... because the person didn't bother to even look into it.
"Thank you for reaching out. As far as our line up of bullets goes, we do not make a 77gr OTM." |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
When BH said "same performance" do they mean as the 77gr SMK, or the 75gr Hornady?
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Originally Posted By Bravo_Six: Yes. However, the mil wanted a canalure and Nosler couldn't, or wouldn't, make a Custom Comp with one, so mil changed to sierra. View Quote Incorrect. I posted this back in 2016 . . . https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Nosler_77_Grain_Custom_Competition___Velocity__Accuracy_and_Terminal_Ballistics/16-688776/ Nosler 77 grain BTHP Nosler introduced their 77 grain Custom Competition BTHP bullet as an obvious competitor to the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing. The shape and ballistic coefficient of the Nosler bullet is very similar to that of the Sierra MatchKing. The Nosler bullet does have one major difference from the Sierra MatchKing; it is constructed using the thinner J4 copper jacket. I recall an early Nosler advertisement for their Custom Competition bullet that included a phrase saying the bullet was “ideal for military and law enforcement,” hinting at the possibilities of improved fragmentation due to the thinner J4 jacket. Thanks to the works of Dr. G.K. Roberts we know that the 77 grain Nosler bullet loaded to mil-spec velocities has superior terminal ballistic properties to that of the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing loaded in MK262. The terminal ballistic properties of the 77 grain Nosler bullet rival that of the Hornady 75 grain 5.56 TAP load. Unfortunately, there are no ammunition manufacturers that I’m aware of currently loading the 77 grain Nosler to mil-spec velocities. The Nosler 77 grain Custom Competion bullet is typically sold without a cannelure, however Nosler occasionally releases the bullet with a shallow cannelure similar to the one found on the 77 grain SMK loaded in MK262. The cannelured version of the 77 grain Nosler will be the focus of this report. For the first phase of testing, I hand-loaded the cannelured version of the 77 grain Nosler BTHP to a typical SAAMI velocity (approximately 2600 fps from a 20” Colt barrel) to establish an accuracy baseline. No case mouth crimp was applied at this phase. As per my usual protocol, accuracy testing was conducted from a concrete benchrest at a distance of 100 yards. For this phase of testing I used one of my 1:7.7” twist Krieger barreled AR-15s . This barrel has produced sub ½ MOA 10-shot groups with my hand-load topped with the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing. The fore-end of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rode in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. A Leupold Competition Scope was used for testing. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. Three 10-shot groups were obtained which had extreme spreads of 0.797” 0.827” 0.812” for a 10-shot group average of 0.812”. The three groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The composite group had a mean radius of 0.26”. This test shows that the Nosler bullet itself is capable of consistent sub-MOA accuracy at 100 yards when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15. For the second phase of testing, I safely worked up a load for the 77 grain Nosler BTHP to a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps from a 20” barrel using a non-canister grade military powder which has a velocity-to-powder-charge ratio that is very close to that of the powder used in MK262. No case mouth crimp was used in this phase of testing either. Since my Krieger barreled AR-15 has a 5.56mm Match chamber that is “a little too tight” for mil-spec pressure loads, I used my AR-15 with a 20” Noveske DCM barrel with a 1:7” twist for this phase of testing. This Noveske barrel has the “Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber which is designed to offer 100% reliability while retaining maximum possible accuracy. The chamber body is slightly larger than the 5.56mm NATO minimum, but within the 5.56 NATO tolerance. The throat is redesigned for proper bullet alignment with the axis of the bore. This chamber was developed to fire MK262 Mod 1 on AUTO in hot environments." This barrel has produced sub ¾ MOA groups with my 55 grain BlitzKing hand-load. Accuracy testing using the Noveske barreled AR-15 and the mil-spec velocity load of Nosler 77 grain was conducted in the same manner as described above in the first phase of testing. Three 10-shot groups were obtained from 100 yards. Those groups had extreme spreads of: 0.880” 0.857” 0.845” for a 10-shot group average of 0.860”! These groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group which had a mean radius of 0.29”. For the final phase of testing I added a taper crimp to the case mouth of the previously described load used in phase two. A 10-shot string of this load fired over the Oehler 35-P chronograph from my 20” Novekse barrel had a muzzle velocity of 2801 fps with a standard deviation of 12 fps. Three 10-shot groups fired from 100 yards from the 20” Noveske DCM barrel had extreme spreads of: 1.033” 0.914” 1.241” for a 10-shot group average of 1.063”. As before, the three groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 0.31”. For comparison, Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 fired from my Lothar Walther barrel AR-15 had a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.098”. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group of MK262 Mod 1 was 0.33”. ….. |
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06: Like the title says... BH confirmed this to me in a phone call. It was brought to my attention , on another forum. He had gotten the same response. Sometimes I feel like I am the last learn stuff... Lol The Mk262 Mod 1-C still uses the Sierra 77gr MatchKing. The 5.56 OTM 77gr Hornady loaded in the 5.56 77gr OTM, still goes through the same accuracy requirements / standards that BH's applies to the Mk262 Mod 1-C. Just thought others would like to know. ( And I specifically asked if they "meant" the Hornady 75gr OTM, and was corrected... it IS a Hornady 77gr OTM ) I wasn't aware Hornady made a 77gr OTM .224 bullet. View Quote Further down on the site it says they started using the 77 grain Hornady in 2023. Wonder how many people bought the Hornady BH thinking it was loaded with a Sierra bullet.. |
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data. |
Originally Posted By Molon: It's false. Black Hills even did a run of MK262 equivalent using the Nosler 77 grain OTM with cannelure. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/black_hills_mk262_with_nosler_bullet_001-3123615.jpg .... View Quote I have more Nosler 53033 22 CALIBER 77GR with CANNELURE HPBT Custom COMPETITION, about 750 on-hand, than I have of Nosler 53064 22 CALIBER 77GR HPBT CUSTOM COMPETITION, about 300 on-hand. The difference in accuracy between them is nil, at least in my equipment, and my skill. I like the cannelure as a quick seating reference point in my reloads, and I buy them when I can. I crimp them with a moderate crimp with a Lee FCD, in LC brass, and VV N140 powder, CCI-450 primer. In case anybody needs some of the 53033, I just bought 500 (2 x 250 per box) from here, at a damn good price of 35 cents a bullet for the cannelured version. Nosler 22 Cal 77gr Cann HPBT Custom Competition (250ct) The smooth version is usually bit cheaper. There's a guy on gun broker selling a full case of 1,000 Nosler 77 grain custom comps smooth version for 26 cent a bullet. Note: I have no affiliation with either of these vendor/sellers. Caveat Emptor IMHO and YMMV |
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Originally Posted By Molon: Incorrect. I posted this back in 2016 . . . https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Nosler_77_Grain_Custom_Competition___Velocity__Accuracy_and_Terminal_Ballistics/16-688776/ Nosler 77 grain BTHP https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/77_grain_nosler_cc_handload_01-2754471.jpg Nosler introduced their 77 grain Custom Competition BTHP bullet as an obvious competitor to the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing. The shape and ballistic coefficient of the Nosler bullet is very similar to that of the Sierra MatchKing. The Nosler bullet does have one major difference from the Sierra MatchKing; it is constructed using the thinner J4 copper jacket. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/nosler_versus_sierra_77_grain_bullets_01-2754463.jpg I recall an early Nosler advertisement for their Custom Competition bullet that included a phrase saying the bullet was “ideal for military and law enforcement,” hinting at the possibilities of improved fragmentation due to the thinner J4 jacket. Thanks to the works of Dr. G.K. Roberts we know that the 77 grain Nosler bullet loaded to mil-spec velocities has superior terminal ballistic properties to that of the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing loaded in MK262. The terminal ballistic properties of the 77 grain Nosler bullet rival that of the Hornady 75 grain 5.56 TAP load. Unfortunately, there are no ammunition manufacturers that I’m aware of currently loading the 77 grain Nosler to mil-spec velocities. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/NATO_pressure_Nosler_77_OTM_gel_shot_fro-2754467.jpg The Nosler 77 grain Custom Competion bullet is typically sold without a cannelure, however Nosler occasionally releases the bullet with a shallow cannelure similar to the one found on the 77 grain SMK loaded in MK262. The cannelured version of the 77 grain Nosler will be the focus of this report. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/77_nosler_with_cannelure_02-3123376.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/nosler_77_with_cannelure_box_001-2754485.jpg For the first phase of testing, I hand-loaded the cannelured version of the 77 grain Nosler BTHP to a typical SAAMI velocity (approximately 2600 fps from a 20” Colt barrel) to establish an accuracy baseline. No case mouth crimp was applied at this phase. As per my usual protocol, accuracy testing was conducted from a concrete benchrest at a distance of 100 yards. For this phase of testing I used one of my 1:7.7” twist Krieger barreled AR-15s . This barrel has produced sub ½ MOA 10-shot groups with my hand-load topped with the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing. The fore-end of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rode in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. A Leupold Competition Scope was used for testing. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/krieger_55_blitzkings_448_10_shot_group_-2925918.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/molon_benchrest_001-2754487.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/wind_probe_2016_01_framed-2754491.jpg Three 10-shot groups were obtained which had extreme spreads of 0.797” 0.827” 0.812” for a 10-shot group average of 0.812”. The three groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The composite group had a mean radius of 0.26”. This test shows that the Nosler bullet itself is capable of consistent sub-MOA accuracy at 100 yards when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/composite_group_of_77_Nosler_at_saami_ve-2754502.jpg For the second phase of testing, I safely worked up a load for the 77 grain Nosler BTHP to a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps from a 20” barrel using a non-canister grade military powder which has a velocity-to-powder-charge ratio that is very close to that of the powder used in MK262. No case mouth crimp was used in this phase of testing either. Since my Krieger barreled AR-15 has a 5.56mm Match chamber that is “a little too tight” for mil-spec pressure loads, I used my AR-15 with a 20” Noveske DCM barrel with a 1:7” twist for this phase of testing. This Noveske barrel has the “Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber which is designed to offer 100% reliability while retaining maximum possible accuracy. The chamber body is slightly larger than the 5.56mm NATO minimum, but within the 5.56 NATO tolerance. The throat is redesigned for proper bullet alignment with the axis of the bore. This chamber was developed to fire MK262 Mod 1 on AUTO in hot environments." This barrel has produced sub ¾ MOA groups with my 55 grain BlitzKing hand-load. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/noveske_20_inch_sdm_10_shot_group_01b-26-2754515.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/noveske_20_inch_hbar_003-2754454.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/noveske_20_inch_dmr_typ_002-2754453.jpg Accuracy testing using the Noveske barreled AR-15 and the mil-spec velocity load of Nosler 77 grain was conducted in the same manner as described above in the first phase of testing. Three 10-shot groups were obtained from 100 yards. Those groups had extreme spreads of: 0.880” 0.857” 0.845” for a 10-shot group average of 0.860”! These groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group which had a mean radius of 0.29”. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/composite_group_for_77_nosler_at_2800_fp-2754519.jpg For the final phase of testing I added a taper crimp to the case mouth of the previously described load used in phase two. A 10-shot string of this load fired over the Oehler 35-P chronograph from my 20” Novekse barrel had a muzzle velocity of 2801 fps with a standard deviation of 12 fps. Three 10-shot groups fired from 100 yards from the 20” Noveske DCM barrel had extreme spreads of: 1.033” 0.914” 1.241” for a 10-shot group average of 1.063”. As before, the three groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 0.31”. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/nosler_77_milspec_velocity_with_crimp_30-2754549.jpg For comparison, Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 fired from my Lothar Walther barrel AR-15 had a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.098”. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group of MK262 Mod 1 was 0.33”. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/mk262_composite_group_02-1342450.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/nosler_accuracy_circles_with_mk262_002_--2754563.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/77_nosler_at_2800_fps_trajectory_01-2754443.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/molon_sig_with_gray_arfcom_background_00-1833489.jpg ….. View Quote Thank you for the refresher info ! |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Originally Posted By 77Grainz: Further down on the site it says they started using the 77 grain Hornady in 2023. Wonder how many people bought the Hornady BH thinking it was loaded with a Sierra bullet.. View Quote I hear what you are saying. I would like to see ballistic gel tests ( and accuracy ) with this Horn. 77gr OTM . |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
On a related note to the Hornady 77 grain bullet loaded by Black Hills
I just came across something interesting, that I suspect may be related to the mysterious Hornady .224 77 grain bullet. This: Classic Match 22 Caliber 224 Diameter 77 Grain Boat Tail Hollow Point With Cannelure 250 Count I've seen these before and I wondered who was making these for Midsouth. The G1 BC is listed as .355. Barnes 77 grain Match BC is listed @ .352 close, but no cannelure Nosler 77 grain CC BC is listed @ .340, (which is understated it is .377 according to List) and they can be had with cannelure Sierra SMK 77 grain BC is listed @ .372 can be had with cannelure The Midsouth 77 grain BC is listed @ .355. But here the interesting thing that I took no note of until I read of this Hornady 77 grain bullet being used by Black Hills. Midsouth lists the bullet number as # HMK22477, maybe this means Hornady Match King 224 77 grain Here's what Midsouth says about them: The Classic Match Bullet Series was made by a Major US Bullet Manufacturer for Midsouth Shooters Supply Co. These bullets are engineered after an industry classic design that has proven its record-setting accuracy time and time again. I don't know for sure and I'm just speculating, but everything seems to fit that this Midsouth Classic 77 grain Hollow Point with cannelure may indeed made by Hornady. |
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Originally Posted By BobinNC: On a related note to the Hornady 77 grain bullet loaded by Black Hills I just came across something interesting, that I suspect may be related to the mysterious Hornady .224 77 grain bullet. This: Classic Match 22 Caliber 224 Diameter 77 Grain Boat Tail Hollow Point With Cannelure 250 Count I've seen these before and I wondered who was making these for Midsouth. The G1 BC is listed as .355. Barnes 77 grain Match BC is listed @ .352 close, but no cannelure Nosler 77 grain CC BC is listed @ .340, (which is understated it is .377 according to List) and they can be had with cannelure Sierra SMK 77 grain BC is listed @ .372 can be had with cannelure The Midsouth 77 grain BC is listed @ .355. But here the interesting thing that I took no note of until I read of this Hornady 77 grain bullet being used by Black Hills. Midsouth lists the bullet number as # HMK22477, maybe this means Hornady Match King 224 77 grain Here's what Midsouth says about them: The Classic Match Bullet Series was made by a Major US Bullet Manufacturer for Midsouth Shooters Supply Co. These bullets are engineered after an industry classic design that has proven its record-setting accuracy time and time again. I don't know for sure and I'm just speculating, but everything seems to fit that this Midsouth Classic 77 grain Hollow Point with cannelure may indeed made by Hornady. View Quote Interesting, and Thanks for sharing. FWIW, I pulled some ( 5ea ) BH Horn 77gr OTM bullets and compared the measured ogives to a variety of pulled 77gr SMK loaded factory ammo also 5ea .... ( CBC, IMI, AAC, Mk262 ) There was no consistent difference in the measurements of the ogives between them all. Frankly the various measured 77gr SMK's , allowed the BH Horn bullet to be in the lower middle of the various 77gr SMK's ogive lengths. The linked Midsouth bullet has a closer cannalure "depth" to the BH Horn bullet. The SMK's all had a deeper cannalure impression. So... Maybe ? |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. ________________________________ TOGC,IADC |
Welp, Im convinced
Honestly, "HMK"..... com'on. Certainly still need confirmation if possible, but I am confident you cracked the case. I am interested in any forensic comparisons to come. A sectioned side-by-side? |
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I just noticed vendor listings stating "Hornady" in the D556N9 descriptions and subsequently found this troubling thread. I've got a considerable stockpile of D556N9 and more than a few rifles zero'd for it. Now I find everything I've added to the stacks in the last few months is different, with no indication on the packaging that I noticed.
Is worrying about zero shift being too pedantic? It's going to be a few months before I can get out to check. |
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Originally Posted By Wombat: Didn't they use Nosler 77gr bullets in some of the first lots that had great terminal performance? View Quote To my recollection, yes. I have it stuck in my head that the terminal performance of the Nosler CC is slightly better, and the SMK has slightly better accuracy. The later has been true in my testing. I have no idea if the former is true or not. |
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Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns. |
Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: Just got off the phone with hornady Bullet exclusively made for black hills No expansion, penetration, or BC data. Maybe black hills will have some additional info Edit*** Just got off the phone with black hills According to them the BC and jacket thickness should be identical. He was unsure what hornady changed to avoid a lawsuit but he stated it had identical performance from their testing. They may do a press release on it with the official numbers to put peoples minds at ease View Quote No shit. Cool. |
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Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns. |
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