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Posted: 11/19/2023 2:17:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalahnikid]
Hopefully AmericanSheepDog doesn't mind my stealing his idea that he has going with his 601 thread, but I'd like to do something similar with 607's. I've mostly been curious if they fit into a serial number block so I went back through all the photo's I have saved.
If anyone here has any photo's of any original 607's, especially with serial number visible please contribute! Also if you have better photos of the carbines already listed, or know the location of where they are displayed. Prototypes: CX2000 at the Institute of Military Technology (Knight Collection)    Serial X555 This might also be at IMT.  Colt 607: The First AR Carbine 14507 This is in the Oregon Military Museum collection        14587 Located at the Fort Bragg Special Operations Museum      14617 At Ft. Benning. Thank you to AmericanSheepDog for the pictures, he shares an album with more photos in his post below v      14657 This is at West Point          14632 Located at the Virginia War Museum in Newport News, Virginia    14667 At Rock Island Arsenal Museum   14683 "This was displayed with a bunch of Vietnam captured guns at the 1st SF Group range at Joint Base Lewis-McChord a few years ago. Not sure why the auto sear was taken out." - Wespe     14686 In the collection of the South Carolina Military Museum, Columbia SC. The first photo was posted in this forum by a member in 2011, I emailed the museum curator who was kind enough to provide me with the serial number. Thank you to the SC Military Museum for their help.   15599  Attached FileUnknowns The first rifle is on display at the Wehrtechnik Museum in Koblenz Germany. I would be so appreciative if someone would be able to get the serial number from this display!      Putting this in the Unknown category because I cant quite make out the serial number, but it appears to be either 14697 or 14607 based on the tag. The rifle is in the collection of the US Army Ordinance Small Arms Collection, formerly Aberdeen Proving Grounds now located Ft. Gregg-Adams.  Attached FileAnother Unknown  Attached FileAnother Unknown  Another Unknown At the Fort Campbell Pratt Museum  Era Original Photos:  Attached File             Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 2:27:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wespe]
[#1]
This was displayed with a bunch of Vietnam captured guns at the 1st SF Group range at JBLM a few years ago. Not sure why the auto sear was taken out.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 2:36:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wespe: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20524/9247F0D3-8604-4109-896C-A9C98D351B9F_jpe-3033077.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20524/DD596E45-34D3-46DD-AD6C-10E3806D1E8D_jpe-3033072.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20524/6FA7D42E-A959-4474-9CB5-C9879ACEA44A_jpe-3033078.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/20524/E451C622-51F9-4A4B-8724-10642D9EE2F7_jpe-3033079.JPG Thank you! Do you have any idea where that is? I see the serial number as 14683. Added to OP. 
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Posted: 11/19/2023 2:39:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Thank you! Do you have any idea where that is? I see the serial number as 14683. Added to OP. Info added in post. |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 2:42:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wespe: Info added in post. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wespe: Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: Thank you! Do you have any idea where that is? I see the serial number as 14683. Added to OP. Info added in post. Thank you so much! |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 5:11:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 762AP]
[#5]
Dude in the tiger stripes has an HK-33. (?)
This needs to be someone's avatar, Greek farmer minding his fields somewhere in Cyprus, circa 1967, when a truckload of Turk-Cypriots goes by on the road....   Attached File |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 6:19:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 762AP: Dude in the tiger stripes has an HK-33. (?) I had it in my 607 photo folder on my computer thinking the guy in back had a 607, but I think it was just at an angle that a full size M16 looked shorter. I removed it.
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Posted: 11/19/2023 6:30:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Nice job. I just sent PMs to Aimless and coctailer requesting this thread be made a sticky. Hopefully others will too.
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Posted: 11/19/2023 6:35:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalahnikid]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m1sniper: Nice job. I just sent PMs to Aimless and coctailer requesting this thread be made a sticky. Hopefully others will too. Thanks, I asked coctailer to flip the archive lever as well. I hope this thread can grow into a data base. We've debated for years about how many 607s were made, the biggest question I have is if they fit into a serial number block and if so, how big is that block? I don't know that it needs to be a sticky, I don't forsee a lot of updates. There are very few of these surviving. eta: I dug back through the archives and found a few more examples in museums but either the pictures are tiny, blurry, broken links, or have the photobucket watermark on them, combined with not being able to see who the poster was it was not a useful endeavor. |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 7:35:23 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 11/19/2023 8:09:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 762AP]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: I had it in my 607 photo folder on my computer thinking the guy in back had a 607, but I think it was just at an angle that a full size M16 looked shorter. I removed it. Apologies, I was not being a "pic Nazi", I though the fellow in the back to the left had a 607, also, but, the soldier behind the NVA punk has an HK. Look at it again. I recall reading somewhere about a batch of 33s they sent to MACVSOG or something in the late 60s. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/19/2023 8:43:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 762AP: Apologies, I was not being a "pic Nazi", I though the fellow in the back to the left had a 607, also, but, the soldier behind the NVA punk has an HK. Look at it again. I recall reading somewhere about a batch of 33s they sent to MACVSOG or something in the late 60s. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 762AP: Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: I had it in my 607 photo folder on my computer thinking the guy in back had a 607, but I think it was just at an angle that a full size M16 looked shorter. I removed it. Apologies, I was not being a "pic Nazi", I though the fellow in the back to the left had a 607, also, but, the soldier behind the NVA punk has an HK. Look at it again. I recall reading somewhere about a batch of 33s they sent to MACVSOG or something in the late 60s. It's a Navy SEAL with an H&R T223 A Harrington & Richardson imported H&K33 |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 10:07:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m1sniper]
[#12]
Pics curtesy of member privatesnafu, this demilled section was at one point a 607 but then an E2 type stock installed. Found at an old Crane dumping ground, you can see that the receiver was threaded to accept the lower rod for the 07 stock. Not just pinned in place but threaded.
 Attached File:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 10:08:13 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 11/19/2023 10:08:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Im angry because my idea has been stolen
 Kidding. I must say, this is a pretty good format, where’d you get it? Lol I don’t see the 2nd 607 I’ve documented - images found here |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 11:00:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By m1sniper: Pics curtesy of member privatesnafu, this demilled section was at one point a 607 but then an E2 type stock installed. Found at an old Crane dumping ground, you can see that the receiver was threaded to accept the lower rod for the 07 stock. Not just pinned in place but threaded.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/2f_JPG-3033563.JPG: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/2g_JPG-3033556.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/2l_JPG-3033557.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/2k_JPG-3033559.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/2a_JPG-3033561.JPG Originally Posted By m1sniper: Pic curtesy of member privatesnafu: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182845/1_jpg-3033554.JPG Thank you M1! I wish we could see the s/n of the pic from privatesnafu. Im not going to jump to any conclusions, but so far these fit into a block between 14500 and 14700. We'll see if we can find any outside that range. Also all we've seen so far are GX-5857 marked carbines with the forward assist. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:46:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Im not going to jump to any conclusions, but so far these fit into a block between 14500 and 14700. We'll see if we can find any outside that range. Also all we've seen so far are GX-5857 marked carbines with the forward assist. There should only be 200 GX5857 CAR15 SMGs. The GX guns were a limited production item for the SAWS trials and would have all originally been built alike (forward assist, 3.5in moderator, etc.) for military testing. Some have been modified since the tests took place in '65. According to a Colt Memo the 14500-14916 block was set aside for SAWS. The earliest SMG serial number I could find was 14503 in the Smithsonian, and the latest, 14685 (modified) also in the Smithsonian. This block rolls into the GX-5856 roll marked HBAR, the earliest being 14716 and the latest being 14791 (both listed in the SAWS report from '65). The next serial I have is 14864 which was described as being marked Model 07 by an NFA collector. The next is 14866 which is a Model 08 in the ATF collection. The absolute latest number I have is Model 07A 201101 from the Japanese book by Tokoi. These number kind of shoot a hole in Colt's memo. They may have set aside a larger block but, I'd say there were only 200 GX5857s (SMGs) and 100 GX5856s (HBARs) made for SAWS. Anything outside that serial range is a probably a tool room gun or some other model designator. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:50:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 57Octane: There should only be 200 GX5857 CAR15 SMGs. The GX guns were a limited production item for the SAWS trials and would have all originally been built alike (forward assist, 3.5in moderator, etc.) for military testing. Some have been modified since the tests took place in '65. According to a Colt Memo the 14500-14916 block was set aside for SAWS. The earliest SMG serial number I could find was 14503 in the Smithsonian, and the latest, 14685 (modified) also in the Smithsonian. This block rolls into the GX-5856 roll marked HBAR, the earliest being 14716 and the latest being 14791 (both listed in the SAWS report from '65). The next serial I have is 14864 which was described as being marked Model 07 by an NFA collector. The next is 14866 which is a Model 08 in the ATF collection. The absolute latest number I have is Model 07A 201101 from the Japanese book by Tokoi. These number kind of shoot a hole in Colt's memo. They may have set aside a larger block but, I'd say there were only 200 GX5857s (SMGs) and 100 GX5856s (HBARs) made for SAWS. Anything outside that serial range is a probably a tool room gun or some other model designator. Thank you for the insight!! 
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:39:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalahnikid]
[#18]
Added 14632 and other unknowns.
I remember seeing pictures from a war museum in Vietnam once, I wonder if anyone has those saved pictures? 
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:55:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalahnikid]
[#19]
 From the SAWS Report Looks like 20 of the 200 were tested? Note that the GX-5857 at Ft Benning that ASD posted was tested and listed in the report by serial number. Also Imagine getting to burn 81,000 rounds through a bunch of Colt 607's. 
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Posted: 11/22/2023 3:38:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 44Echo10: It's a Navy SEAL with an H&R T223 A Harrington & Richardson imported H&K33 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 44Echo10: Originally Posted By 762AP: Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: I had it in my 607 photo folder on my computer thinking the guy in back had a 607, but I think it was just at an angle that a full size M16 looked shorter. I removed it. Apologies, I was not being a "pic Nazi", I though the fellow in the back to the left had a 607, also, but, the soldier behind the NVA punk has an HK. Look at it again. I recall reading somewhere about a batch of 33s they sent to MACVSOG or something in the late 60s. It's a Navy SEAL with an H&R T223 A Harrington & Richardson imported H&K33 |
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Posted: 11/28/2023 12:42:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Added 14686.
Hoping to find some slickside upper guns outside of the 14500-14699 block. |
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Posted: 11/28/2023 2:39:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Hoping to find some slickside upper guns outside of the 14500-14699 block. How about 15599? Attached File |
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Posted: 11/28/2023 2:41:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalahnikid]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 57Octane: How about 15599? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/245718/44D9981B-D517-44E6-B1A3-E847F54FD2C2_jpe-3043080.JPG Thanks! Ill put it in the OP. I know Ive seen that before somewhere but didnt have it saved. Do you know where that was originally published? ETA: Added the location of the Unknown in Germany, an Unknown at Ordinance Museum, and some original era photos today. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/28/2023 2:59:25 PM EDT
[#24]
this is beautiful!
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Posted: 11/29/2023 10:25:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: I know Ive seen that before somewhere but didnt have it saved. Do you know where that was originally published? Small Arms Review from February 1998. Lots of other models and serial numbers are shown as well, all from Knight's collection. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 4:16:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kalahnikid]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 57Octane: How about 15599? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/245718/44D9981B-D517-44E6-B1A3-E847F54FD2C2_jpe-3043080.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 57Octane: Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: Hoping to find some slickside upper guns outside of the 14500-14699 block. How about 15599? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/245718/44D9981B-D517-44E6-B1A3-E847F54FD2C2_jpe-3043080.JPG I want to give some context to that example with some other rifles featured in the same article. https://smallarmsreview.com/the-complete-guide-to-colt-m-16-models-part-i/ SN 015548 is a Model 608 SN 015555 is a Model 606 SN 015599 is a Model 607 SN 015635 is a Model 605 Im not sure exactly what to draw from that, other than a guess that 15500-15700 was set aside for experimental and small production run items. Im starting to think there were not many 607's made with slickside uppers. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 7:52:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: I want to give some context to that example with some other rifles featured in the same article. https://smallarmsreview.com/the-complete-guide-to-colt-m-16-models-part-i/ SN 015548 is a Model 608 SN 015555 is a Model 606 SN 015599 is a Model 607 SN 015635 is a Model 605 Im not sure exactly what to draw from that, other than a guess that 15500-15700 was set aside for experimental and small production run items. Im starting to think there were not many 607's made with slickside uppers. It would be pretty cool to turn this thread into the SN 14,500 - 20,000 thread because its such a confusing area lol |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 7:54:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: It would be pretty cool to turn this thread into the SN 14,500 - 20,000 thread because its such a confusing area lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AmericanSheepDog: Originally Posted By Kalahnikid: I want to give some context to that example with some other rifles featured in the same article. https://smallarmsreview.com/the-complete-guide-to-colt-m-16-models-part-i/ SN 015548 is a Model 608 SN 015555 is a Model 606 SN 015599 is a Model 607 SN 015635 is a Model 605 Im not sure exactly what to draw from that, other than a guess that 15500-15700 was set aside for experimental and small production run items. Im starting to think there were not many 607's made with slickside uppers. It would be pretty cool to turn this thread into the SN 14,500 - 20,000 thread because its such a confusing area lol Come certainly found a way to keep us entertained 60 years later
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Posted: 1/11/2024 10:27:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Figured out through a facebook post that 14632 is in Newport News, VA. Thank you to the genetleman who agreed to have his photos added to this thread!
I tried digging through reddit and facebook posts from the museum in Koblenz to see if any had a photo of the display board with their 607 without any luck. If anyone knows what that serial number is, I would love to know! |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2024 12:15:30 PM EDT
[#30]
a
Agree that this thread should be a sticky! Not serial # specific but I'll look to see if I can find all the pictures that (I believe it was Airborne101, or similar} had posted up years ago< I believe of a GX5857 that was in the museum at Rock Island. |
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Posted: 1/30/2024 12:29:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stoner25mkiv: a Agree that this thread should be a sticky! Not serial # specific but I'll look to see if I can find all the pictures that (I believe it was Airborne101, or similar} had posted up years ago< I believe of a GX5857 that was in the museum at Rock Island. That would be awesome if you can find some. My one picture from RIA is pathetic. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 2:34:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Might have found another one. A friend took some photos of the collection of the Camp Pendleton EOD unit, including this one. The stock and suppressor look right but the hand guards have been changed. No idea what the serial number is but I'll bet someone with EOD connections could call there and find out.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 11:31:20 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ordnance: Might have found another one. A friend took some photos of the collection of the Camp Pendleton EOD unit, including this one. The stock and suppressor look right but the hand guards have been changed. No idea what the serial number is but I'll bet someone with EOD connections could call there and find out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114226/GX-5857_at_Camp_Pendleton_jpg-3117748.JPG I believe I have a photo of that one in my "unknowns" category, but its been rearranged on the display and I had no idea of its location. Thank you for providing its whereabouts! It would awesome if someone could get the serial number! Thank you @ordnance |
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Posted: 2/5/2024 10:06:39 PM EDT
[#34]
@aimless can you please tack this so I can refer to it when it's time to install my 607 stock and complete my -5857?
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Posted: 2/5/2024 11:47:02 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 2/6/2024 12:04:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: What is this noob looking at here? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416992/fW1TyJI_jpg-3119779.JPG |
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Posted: 2/6/2024 12:16:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TGWLDR]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoubleARon: An extremely expensive stock. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoubleARon: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: What is this noob looking at here? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416992/fW1TyJI_jpg-3119779.JPG I'm sure of that. What is the toggle lever on the butt plate? Edit: Found it. Unlocks the stock and allows it to slide out to its fully extended position. Noobs. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2024 7:02:42 PM EDT
[#38]
I have a 605 upper that I've considered building into a 607 clone.
Anyone come across a picture of one in the real world or is that too much cross pollination? |
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Posted: 2/7/2024 7:14:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigRix: I have a 605 upper that I've considered building into a 607 clone. Anyone come across a picture of one in the real world or is that too much cross pollination? I've never seen that. In fact one thing I'm learning from this thread is how few slick side 607's seem to be on display / left surviving. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 9:08:51 PM EDT
[#40]
I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I'm working on putting together a 607 clone right now and need help with someone that can help me modify my receiver to accept the threaded stock rod and drill the cross pin. I have a slab side upper and 607 lower from H&R, a complete stock set (with handguards, caps, dummy moderator, chopped down grip and complete stock assembly) I bought off of another member on the EE, and a 12.5" 1/12 twist Brownells barrel I need to get chopped down and threaded. Any help with the right person or company that can help would be amazing.
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Posted: 3/14/2024 9:39:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZAKMS: I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I'm working on putting together a 607 clone right now and need help with someone that can help me modify my receiver to accept the threaded stock rod and drill the cross pin. I have a slab side upper and 607 lower from H&R, a complete stock set (with handguards, caps, dummy moderator, chopped down grip and complete stock assembly) I bought off of another member on the EE, and a 12.5" 1/12 twist Brownells barrel I need to get chopped down and threaded. Any help with the right person or company that can help would be amazing. https://retroarmsworks.com/ is always your best bet |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 10:21:47 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 3/14/2024 10:28:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoubleARon: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/73538/IMG_3749_jpeg-3159263.JPG Pratt Museum. It's marked as an XM-177. Another survivor, thank you for posting! |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 11:14:06 PM EDT
[#44]
I’m curious, how reliable were the 607’s with such a short amount of barrel ahead of the gas port? I’m thinking of shortening a barrel to make a 607 clone.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:37:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZAKMS]
[#45]
They are no longer doing custom work (just got off the phone with him). I'm at a loss on who to contact that can modify my receiver to take the threaded rod for the 607. Do you know of anyone else that has messed with these that does custom work? Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
https://www.akfiles.com/forums/attachments/1000008302-jpg.570248/ |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 4:39:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By Shadyman: I’m curious, how reliable were the 607’s with such a short amount of barrel ahead of the gas port? I’m thinking of shortening a barrel to make a 607 clone. Originally Posted By AZAKMS: They are no longer doing custom work (just got off the phone with him). I'm at a loss on who to contact that can modify my receiver to take the threaded rod for the 607. Do you know of anyone else that has messed with these that does custom work? Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. https://www.akfiles.com/forums/attachments/1000008302-jpg.570248/ This thread is really for cataloguing surviving original 607's and trying to learn more about how many were made and what if any variations took place in production. You guys might have more luck starting a 607 build thread, we have members who have built many clones that might have the experience to help guide you. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:43:45 PM EDT
[#47]
VERY cool. Thanks!
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UT, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:32:00 PM EDT
[#48]
The cutest of the CAR-15s
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SC, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:05:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shane733]
[#49]
I got a question. I have lots of 607 pictures. I was sorting into folders what was 100% real and what were "clones" people had made over the years. I noticed the original drawings and blueprints, the stock switch locks to the left and opens to the right. "L" "O" The clone stock I have for my 607 is "L" "O" and locks to the left - opens to the right. So are some of these in museums really real real or was they made decades ago by collectors to be displayed? If you look at some of the old pictures, black and white, or early pictures with them in the field, they are "L" "O" and locked to the left. Well the switches are in the "L" position in most the old pictures anyway.
 
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Posted: 3/22/2024 6:10:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shane733: So are some of these in museums really real real or was they made decades ago by collectors to be displayed? No, despite the what the patent shows, the original prototype and all production models are oriented "O" on the left and "L" on the right.  Attached FileThe replica you pictured is an airsoft copy and is incorrect and so are any other "clones" marked in such a way. |
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