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Posted: 10/24/2018 4:11:19 PM EDT
I've been watching these guys pretty close over the past few months. They are making a lot of nice products. I'm very interested in the OWL that will release late November. The final numbers aren't out on the Lumens / Candela, but they are talking it up pretty big. They say it outperforms the Surefire DF.
They also say it is 100% American Made which is a plus in my book. It comes with the charger and two 18650 batteries. The only real downside is that it doesn't take CR123 batteries. I'm not sure about the weight either. I've seen them torture the hell out of this thing. They filled it with water internally and used a shovel and wacked it like a baseball over and over again. It's a tank it seems. What do you guys think? If it's everything they say it is, would you ditch your current setups? 
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Posted: 10/24/2018 4:23:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Interested in lumens / candela / beam pattern.
But, integrated picatinny mount only? No dick mod or mlok? Is the mount replaceable with something else? 18650 only? Seems better to have option of dual CR123s (long term storage, little use) or 18650 (high volume use, rechargeable). The head / body / tail cap connection is, interesting. Looks like a "tape" switch only activation integrated in the mount (read, not able to be placed where user may desire). Maybe it does perform better than a 600DF; but Surefire is known entity, and cheaper in this case. |
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Posted: 10/24/2018 4:26:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I've been seeing it on P&S. Looks really cool.
My only question is how well it would integrate with IR laser systems. |
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Posted: 10/24/2018 4:34:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Not for $389. That's reeeedickyouliss.
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Posted: 10/24/2018 8:15:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not for $389. That's reeeedickyouliss. I do agree with the above post about the ability to use both CR123 and 18650 batteries. The picatinny only mount is an issue as well but I see that being rectified in the future. As far as it being ran with IR/Laser... that's going to be an issue as well. I think i'll hold off and stick with my Surefire for now, but in the future who knows. I like what they are doing and I hope they keep up the good work. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 8:54:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure I agree. By the time you buy a Surefire DF, DS00, ST07, charger and batteries... you're well over the $389 asking price. Even if you find things on sale. I ran the numbers and they are the same price only if you pay full price for the OWL and get 30% off every Surefire item listed. I do agree with the above post about the ability to use both CR123 and 18650 batteries. The picatinny only mount is an issue as well but I see that being rectified in the future. As far as it being ran with IR/Laser... that's going to be an issue as well. I think i'll hold off and stick with my Surefire for now, but in the future who knows. I like what they are doing and I hope they keep up the good work. DS-SR07 - $125 Mount - $50 (Thorntail as example) Total $374 (not including shipping) It's close. Like I said, want to see lumens / candela / beam measurements and pics. 
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Posted: 10/25/2018 10:21:47 AM EDT
[#6]
How well would this integrate with a rifle kitted with IR, mainly the MAWL?
A MAWL with an mlok inline/offset can really let you get a tight and optimized light/IR setup. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 10:27:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How well would this integrate with a rifle kitted with IR, mainly the MAWL? A MAWL with an mlok inline/offset can really let you get a tight and optimized light/IR setup. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 10:58:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Theres a few technical questions that would need to be answered in order to see whats up with this light. What is the supply voltage range? How much current does it pull?
There are delrin sleeves available from many retailers such as oveready that will shim a 16mm battery to 18mm. Battery rattle therefore isnt an issue. People have been pushing the 1200+Lumen light for a while and theres basically a limit as to how much current you can safely and effeciently pull from a pair of cr123s. Even the insane 3000+Lumen heads from oveready need to be throttled down when used with those. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 11:39:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure I agree. By the time you buy a Surefire DF, DS00, ST07, charger and batteries... you're well over the $389 asking price. Even if you find things on sale. I ran the numbers and they are the same price only if you pay full price for the OWL and get 30% off every Surefire item listed. I do agree with the above post about the ability to use both CR123 and 18650 batteries. The picatinny only mount is an issue as well but I see that being rectified in the future. As far as it being ran with IR/Laser... that's going to be an issue as well. I think i'll hold off and stick with my Surefire for now, but in the future who knows. I like what they are doing and I hope they keep up the good work. I will continue to happily run my PROTAC HLX...even though the snobs look down their proverbial noses on Streamlight products.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 12:26:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Theres a few technical questions that would need to be answered in order to see whats up with this light. What is the supply voltage range? How much current does it pull? There are delrin sleeves available from many retailers such as oveready that will shim a 16mm battery to 18mm. Battery rattle therefore isnt an issue. People have been pushing the 1200+Lumen light for a while and theres basically a limit as to how much current you can safely and effeciently pull from a pair of cr123s. Even the insane 3000+Lumen heads from oveready need to be throttled down when used with those. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 3:38:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is this 3000 lumen head you speak of and can it be used on the 600df? They sell E and C series compatible heads, so no since the DF has a unique thread pitch for the head. Honestly it doesnt matter that much since an 18650 c series compatible body is about as easy at gets to find. Solarforce makes good ones |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 7:29:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still riduclous... because Surefire lights are stupidly overpriced too. I will continue to happily run my PROTAC HLX...even though the snobs look down their proverbial noses on Streamlight products. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/153820/20181013_122129_jpg-716563.JPG Personally, nothing is going on my gun that hasn't been proven. Last thing you want is a light that doesn't illuminate when you need it most. I don't think it has anything to do with people being snobs. edited - sju |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 7:31:09 PM EDT
[#13]
edited - sju
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Posted: 10/25/2018 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#14]
edited - DO NOT quote COC violations
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Posted: 10/25/2018 7:56:36 PM EDT
[#15]
edited - sju
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Posted: 10/25/2018 8:12:26 PM EDT
[#16]
This isn't GD. You should know better.
And so should you -- if you want to get back on topic, then get back on topic without the GD hall monitor post - sju |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 8:46:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure I agree. By the time you buy a Surefire DF, DS00, ST07, charger and batteries... you're well over the $389 asking price. Even if you find things on sale. I ran the numbers and they are the same price only if you pay full price for the OWL and get 30% off every Surefire item listed. I do agree with the above post about the ability to use both CR123 and 18650 batteries. The picatinny only mount is an issue as well but I see that being rectified in the future. As far as it being ran with IR/Laser... that's going to be an issue as well. I think i'll hold off and stick with my Surefire for now, but in the future who knows. I like what they are doing and I hope they keep up the good work. At $389 they won’t sell many of those. I was really interested until I saw that price tag and literally laughed out loud and said, nope! In fact I just looked up and said to my friend, “proven product X at $199 or new product at $389?” His head literally snapped back and he laughed out loud. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 8:51:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some happily pay a premium for proven products. YMMV Personally, nothing is going on my gun that hasn't been proven. Last thing you want is a light that doesn't illuminate when you need it most. I don't think it has anything to do with people being snobs. I think that's on you. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 9:14:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still riduclous... because Surefire lights are stupidly overpriced too. I will continue to happily run my PROTAC HLX...even though the snobs look down their proverbial noses on Streamlight products. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/153820/20181013_122129_jpg-716563.JPG |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 9:30:26 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm done editing posts in this thread. Any further derailment is going to result in a thread lock and warnings for anyone involved.
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Posted: 10/25/2018 9:31:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m guessing a lot of guys already have that switch, or TAPS. The df comes with batteries and charger. At $389 they won’t sell many of those. I was really interested until I saw that price tag and literally laughed out loud and said, nope! In fact I just looked up and said to my friend, “proven product X at $199 or new product at $389?” His head literally snapped back and he laughed out loud. Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m guessing a lot of guys already have that switch, or TAPS. The df comes with batteries and charger. At $389 they won’t sell many of those. I was really interested until I saw that price tag and literally laughed out loud and said, nope! In fact I just looked up and said to my friend, “proven product X at $199 or new product at $389?” His head literally snapped back and he laughed out loud. Quoted: Logical fallacy. Anything has the ability to not work at anytime. And quite frankly I haven’t seen other popular light fail at absurd rates relegating Surefire as the king in that department. Not to mention there are pros who run streamlight. And it’s defin true people feel the need to justify items they overpay for. The point of this thread is to break down the OWL and decide if it's a superior product. I don't think it's for everyone. The lack of CR123 batteries is a big issue for me. Another big issue being it's not modular enough to meet the needs of every user in it's current state. They will have to improve upon those issues before I consider a purchase. |
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Posted: 10/26/2018 12:49:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 600DF - $199 (comes with charger / battery) DS-SR07 - $125 Mount - $50 (Thorntail as example) Total $374 (not including shipping) It's close. Like I said, want to see lumens / candela / beam measurements and pics. |
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Posted: 10/26/2018 2:18:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where on earth are you getting a M600DF for 199? |
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Posted: 10/27/2018 3:11:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lanbo Adding them to my bookmarks. EDITED: Of course, as luck would have it, they are in Texas so the price comes out to be almost identical to the next best price I was able to find, 220. |
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Posted: 11/3/2018 3:39:17 AM EDT
[#25]
I got in on the cheaper preorder when they debuted at SHOT. I've been following them closely on IG.
18650s are the way to go. Not only rechargeable(OWL comes with 2 and it's own charger) but also capable of supplying the juice to get those 1k lumen plus numbers. CR123s are at their limit and you won't be seeing competitive WMLs using them in the future. On their livestream the other day, they said the OWL is not intended to be used in conjunction with IR systems at all, citing that guys using IR are most likely going to be using SF or SL. They are working on another light that will be better suited for use in conjuction with IR units. Weight is 9.9oz with battery. The pic rail and integrated pressure tape switch is part of the design philosophy in that it's meant for use on SBRs. You look at lights on shorter rails and you generally see them with lights in line with the activation switch (my own set up is exactly like that, 1 o'clock light mount with tape switch on the top rail next to the light body). With the OWL you won't have to deal with 5-6in of cable management. |
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Posted: 11/5/2018 4:30:38 PM EDT
[#26]
I've been eyeing this with interest.
I definitely won't be an early adopter but when they've been in people's hands for a year or two I'll get one if it seems like a good idea at that time. |
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Posted: 11/5/2018 6:43:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got in on the cheaper preorder when they debuted at SHOT. I've been following them closely on IG. 18650s are the way to go. Not only rechargeable(OWL comes with 2 and it's own charger) but also capable of supplying the juice to get those 1k lumen plus numbers. CR123s are at their limit and you won't be seeing competitive WMLs using them in the future. On their livestream the other day, they said the OWL is not intended to be used in conjunction with IR systems at all, citing that guys using IR are most likely going to be using SF or SL. They are working on another light that will be better suited for use in conjuction with IR units. Weight is 9.9oz with battery. The pic rail and integrated pressure tape switch is part of the design philosophy in that it's meant for use on SBRs. You look at lights on shorter rails and you generally see them with lights in line with the activation switch (my own set up is exactly like that, 1 o'clock light mount with tape switch on the top rail next to the light body). With the OWL you won't have to deal with 5-6in of cable management. |
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Posted: 11/5/2018 7:03:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9.9 ounces? A bit portly. I have no doubt a Surefire DF would be within 1oz set up similarly. |
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Posted: 11/7/2018 1:50:05 AM EDT
[#29]
I'm interested.
Would love it in FDE near IR coating. ETA: Well lookie here.... 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:15:15 PM EDT
[#30]
They've been beating the shit out of these on their Facebook page. I'll be honest, I wouldn't wanna punish my Streamlights (because FSF) the way they've been punishing these. And they're US made. I'm definitely interested but not at $390
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Posted: 12/1/2018 2:24:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Considering the cost of all the previous generation components to accumulate into a usable pressure switch-activated, low profile light set-up, the price is right on these.
Especially with their innovative QD head for battery removal and installation, I think they have something great with this. If I go to buy everything else, I have to get: Surefire Pressure Switch + Tailcap for Scout Light: $169 + Shipping Surefire Scout Light M600 1000 Lumen LED with integral mount: $259 Total for that set-up: $428 + shipping With the traditional exposed cable OTN configuration, I have to manage the cable somehow with makeshift solutions in order to reduce (not eliminate), the cable snag issues. Or I can just get this OWL for under $400 and all my problems are solved in one unit, no exposed cable, pressure switch integrated, no snag issues and separate mounting of individual components, no big knobs to drag my knuckle on, and more lumens. Yeah, I'll be getting this. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 2:49:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Nvm. I’m a moron lol
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Posted: 12/1/2018 3:08:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering the cost of all the previous generation components to accumulate into a usable pressure switch-activated, low profile light set-up, the price is right on these. Especially with their innovative QD head for battery removal and installation, I think they have something great with this. If I go to buy everything else, I have to get: Surefire Pressure Switch + Tailcap for Scout Light: $169 + Shipping Surefire Scout Light M600 1000 Lumen LED with integral mount: $259 Total for that set-up: $428 + shipping With the traditional exposed cable OTN configuration, I have to manage the cable somehow with makeshift solutions in order to reduce (not eliminate), the cable snag issues. Or I can just get this OWL for under $400 and all my problems are solved in one unit, no exposed cable, pressure switch integrated, no snag issues and separate mounting of individual components, no big knobs to drag my knuckle on, and more lumens. Yeah, I'll be getting this. Plus, like I mentioned, you can tuck that df at 11/1 or 10/2 with just the click tailcap and you’re in business for $199 I’m with you though, I really dislike wires. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 8:07:50 PM EDT
[#34]
The main question I would have is how well you can activate it with your off-hand.
I don't care nearly as much where the actual light is as long as it's forward enough, not in my way, and I can hit it with either hand, preferably the same way from each direction (like a tape switch at 12). Big fan of their switch holders for that reason. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:19:50 PM EDT
[#35]
I'll probably get one after a while if user reports are good. I'm not an early adopter/beta tester though.
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Posted: 12/11/2018 11:12:34 AM EDT
[#36]
I am interested for sure though I wish they had an IR option. As someone on here said, they are working on something for IR users, I will be very interested. I'm sure I'll end up buying one of these just not have to deal with a damn cable on my rifles with lights only.
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Posted: 12/14/2018 2:24:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Have been interested to see how this light was going to turn out - but the 18650 is a major turn off. If it was designed to take two CR123 or an 18650 then I would be on board easily. When the DF SF's are coming in much cheaper without all the modularity, or around the same price fully customized to exactly what you want it to be, with the option of either or... Seems like this is a non starter for my wallet.
At 200 bucks you'd have me. Maybe. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 10:40:43 AM EDT
[#38]
Detail on the light that's in production now, shipping ETA, and comparisons versus the M600DF and HL-X.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_afccurOrFg |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:11:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Detail on the light that's in production now, shipping ETA, and comparisons versus the M600DF and HL-X. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_afccurOrFg 1. It looks huge on that ar pistol. Like a beer can. 2. I think they goofed on the light color. I took screen shots to carefully compare and it wasn’t blowing away either of the other two. I think I whiter color would have helped that. 3. I’m not trying to start anything but what was in that DF? Two cr123’s? Or an 18650? Because I’ve compared a decent amount of lights and the DF looked weak at 25 yards. The spill on the DF looked to be the least out of the three and I’m calling bs right now. Especially with the hl-x. The spill and flood on the DF stomps comparable weapon lights. Obviously I can’t compare it to the owl but what I just saw on that video between the DF and the hl-x doesn’t jive. Doesn’t jive at all. $400? Two df’s?! Lolol no. $300? A DF and a pl-2? Lol no. $200? I’d try one. For my 10.5 that doesn’t have a lam. I dunno. I see limitations. Not a game changer. Mounting limitations if you run anything else on your rail. Battery limitations. Wallet limitations. God it really sounds like I’m hating on this and I don’t want to be because Surefire is on my shit list right now. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:17:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm interested. Would love it in FDE near IR coating. ETA: Well lookie here.... http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/img_1237.jpg |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:24:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not for $389. That's reeeedickyouliss. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:31:44 PM EDT
[#42]
1. It is slightly larger than others out there.
2. The light color is what you want. Reminds us of the old bulb days. More yellow penetrates things better. 3. Everything was on 18650s. Full charged. OWL has a ton more candela an the DF..a lot more. 2x than the HL-X. If you watched the whole video, we discussed the environmental factors that were taking place at the range that night. There was a ton of water in the air. It refracts light. Gives a great example of real life performance with environmental variables thrown in. the DF is an awesome light. I own one. I've ran it in one or two shoot house classes and been on the end of them in Force on force. Df has way more spill than the OWL. Again, is about what each product is designed for. Not one light is the best at everything, its all about selecting the right light for the purposes. Im not cloud defensive nor do I work for them or get paid by them. I don't know everything about the light. I didn't get anything for filming the video. Just after the best information available, thats what our channel and show is about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just some quick observation. And I realize video throws what you see off a bit. 1. It looks huge on that ar pistol. Like a beer can. 2. I think they goofed on the light color. I took screen shots to carefully compare and it wasn’t blowing away either of the other two. I think I whiter color would have helped that. 3. I’m not trying to start anything but what was in that DF? Two cr123’s? Or an 18650? Because I’ve compared a decent amount of lights and the DF looked weak at 25 yards. The spill on the DF looked to be the least out of the three and I’m calling bs right now. Especially with the hl-x. The spill and flood on the DF stomps comparable weapon lights. Obviously I can’t compare it to the owl but what I just saw on that video between the DF and the hl-x doesn’t jive. Doesn’t jive at all. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 4:59:32 PM EDT
[#43]
A smaller company is making low volume high quality products in the US, it's going to be expensive. Get over it.
I really like the light, but I'm kinda on the fence about the decision of marrying the switch to the mount. On one hand, it's a really strong mount that offers ambidextrous control; on the other hand I want a MAWL and this looks difficult to use in conjunction with a MAWL. I love Cloud Defense mounts for tape switches, and based on some of the vids I've seen on their facebook page, I'm completely confident that it's tougher than I am. As a rule I generally try to avoid the first generation of products, but I might ignore that rule on this and give one a try. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 6:09:33 PM EDT
[#44]
OWL is $389 right now (I got mine for cheaper on the preorder and BF sales were very good too).
Surefire DF is $200. Since that only includes the clicky tailcap, you also have to buy a socket tailcap and since we are comparing equal functions, the rail grabber switch with momentary pad plus the constant on button for another $95. 389 vs 295. $95 difference between the two. Except one has exposed wires and far less candela. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 6:18:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still riduclous... because Surefire lights are stupidly overpriced too. I will continue to happily run my PROTAC HLX...even though the snobs look down their proverbial noses on Streamlight products. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/153820/20181013_122129_jpg-716563.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I'm not sure I agree. By the time you buy a Surefire DF, DS00, ST07, charger and batteries... you're well over the $389 asking price. Even if you find things on sale. I ran the numbers and they are the same price only if you pay full price for the OWL and get 30% off every Surefire item listed. I do agree with the above post about the ability to use both CR123 and 18650 batteries. The picatinny only mount is an issue as well but I see that being rectified in the future. As far as it being ran with IR/Laser... that's going to be an issue as well. I think i'll hold off and stick with my Surefire for now, but in the future who knows. I like what they are doing and I hope they keep up the good work. I will continue to happily run my PROTAC HLX...even though the snobs look down their proverbial noses on Streamlight products. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/153820/20181013_122129_jpg-716563.JPG I’m personally not interested in $400 light. Automatic disqualifier for me |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 6:42:14 PM EDT
[#46]
 Cloud Defensive - Optimized Weapon Light |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 8:23:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OWL is $389 right now (I got mine for cheaper on the preorder and BF sales were very good too). Surefire DF is $200. Since that only includes the clicky tailcap, you also have to buy a socket tailcap and since we are comparing equal functions, the rail grabber switch with momentary pad plus the constant on button for another $95. 389 vs 295. $95 difference between the two. Except one has exposed wires and far less candela. You’re basically saying you can’t use the Surefire out of the box and I’m pretty sure that’s false since I am tons of professionals do it. You guys really need to stop trying to justify the $389 price tag. I’ll reserve final judgment when I see one for myself. But the video isn’t really doing it justice in my eyes. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 8:31:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. It is slightly larger than others out there. 2. The light color is what you want. Reminds us of the old bulb days. More yellow penetrates things better. 3. Everything was on 18650s. Full charged. OWL has a ton more candela an the DF..a lot more. 2x than the HL-X. If you watched the whole video, we discussed the environmental factors that were taking place at the range that night. There was a ton of water in the air. It refracts light. Gives a great example of real life performance with environmental variables thrown in. the DF is an awesome light. I own one. I've ran it in one or two shoot house classes and been on the end of them in Force on force. Df has way more spill than the OWL. Again, is about what each product is designed for. Not one light is the best at everything, its all about selecting the right light for the purposes. Im not cloud defensive nor do I work for them or get paid by them. I don't know everything about the light. I didn't get anything for filming the video. Just after the best information available, thats what our channel and show is about. And I just can’t get over the price. Logically I guess I can see it. High quality, low volume, American made. It still hurts though. And it certainly doesn’t do anyone any favors when guys try to say I need to add $$$ to the Surefire for apples to apples price tag. No, I don’t. I get a perfectly functioning DF (well, if it isn’t a dud lol) out of the box for $199. I feel they should stop trying to push the “but but you need X and X to make a fair comparison” it’s wrong and just looks like they knew people would balk and preemptively came up with weak sauce excuses. At least to me it comes across that way. I would have rather just said something along the lines of it’s the best, it’s worth it. Basically make no apologies for its costs. That’s what it cost, you want the best? There it is. Again, just my opinion. Someone shows me something like this and says it’s tye best, here is the price, oh yeah, it’s worth it. I’m intriguing at least. Once the “but but but....fair comparison” comes out I’m insulted and turned off. That’s what it really boils down to. I’m insulted someone tells me I need something when I’m running the damn thing just fine out of the box. Sets of bs detector from a mile away. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 12:29:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure logically where you get that. Do they both mount up to your rail out of the box? Yes. Do they both go on with the press of a button? Yes. You're basically saying you can't use the Surefire out of the box and I'm pretty sure that's false since I am tons of professionals do it. You guys really need to stop trying to justify the $389 price tag. I'll reserve final judgment when I see one for myself. But the video isn't really doing it justice in my eyes. Never once said the DF is unusable out of the box. But in order to mount it in a similar position with the same type of control set, I have to spend more on a DF to be able to. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 12:33:34 AM EDT
[#50]
If youve been paying any kind of attention to their social media you would have noticed that they do allude to it being the best out there. Best in performance, best in durability, ect.
I will not say it's the best because I don't have it yet. But I do have one on the way and when it arrives I'll be comparing it to both an HLX and DF. I hope it's the best I sure spent enough on it 
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