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Posted: 2/19/2023 5:20:22 PM EDT
Welp, someone in another thread mentioned the caracal a while back. I was interested even though there really wasn't much media surrounding this thing. I got mine in last week and painted it to match my lowers. I haven't shot it yet, but I intend to and post my results in time. Initial impressions are good. The machining all looks good and tolerances seem tight. The match to my lower is quite snug, a lower that allwos a KAC upper to wiggle. The inside of the receiver also seems a little tighter toleranced than my other AR's. I've judged this with my Midwest Industries upper receiver rod, which had more resistance in the sidewalls of the upper than some of my other rifles.
The pic rail along the top is wider in dimension than most of my others. All my existing accesories had to be adjusted out to fit. Im curious to know how the suppressed setting is. I've read another report hat it didn't subdue that gas enough for their preference. For now, a poor quality workbench photo of the upper.  |
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Posted: 2/19/2023 5:25:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Hox: Welp, someone in another thread mentioned the caracal a while back. I was interested even though there really wasn't much media surrounding this thing. I got mine in last week and painted it to match my lowers. I haven't shot it yet, but I intend to and post my results in time. Initial impressions are good. The machining all looks good and tolerances seem tight. The match to my lower is quite snug, a lower that allwos a KAC upper to wiggle. The inside of the receiver also seems a little tighter toleranced than my other AR's. I've judged this with my Midwest Industries upper receiver rod, which had more resistance in the sidewalls of the upper than some of my other rifles. The pic rail along the top is wider in dimension than most of my others. All my existing accesories had to be adjusted out to fit. Im curious to know how the suppressed setting is. I've read another report hat it didn't subdue that gas enough for their preference. For now, a poor quality workbench photo of the upper.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/19/2023 5:27:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Paint job looks great!
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USA
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Posted: 2/19/2023 5:45:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Uys]
[#3]
I look forward to your opinion on it. I have been eye-balling an 11.5 upper.
I haven't seen a lot info out there on it. |
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Posted: 2/19/2023 6:22:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By rpoL98: very nice! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/BAF8FBC3-D9DC-4235-94E3-187BAC8B7396-93.jpg Originally Posted By sunnybean: Paint job looks great! Originally Posted By Uys: I look forward to your opinion on it. I have been eye-balling an 11.5 upper. I haven't seen a lot info out there on it. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/19/2023 6:46:27 PM EDT
[#5]
I thought I'd read somewhere that it uses regular AR bolts? That'd be a cool.
Easy to clean the piston and rod like a HK416/MR556? |
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Posted: 2/19/2023 7:56:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: I thought I'd read somewhere that it uses regular AR bolts? That'd be a cool. Easy to clean the piston and rod like a HK416/MR556? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2023 5:33:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Looks like a nice upper. I’ve got a SiG 516 that’s been great so I’m sure you’ll dig this thing.
Where are you in NE Ohio? I’m in the willoughby area if you ever want to meet up to shoot. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 7:11:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sv30cal: Looks like a nice upper. I've got a SiG 516 that's been great so I'm sure you'll dig this thing. Where are you in NE Ohio? I'm in the willoughby area if you ever want to meet up to shoot.  Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2023 10:57:36 PM EDT
[#9]
I just picked up an 11.5 816 upper. Once I’ve taken it out in May along with a *crossed fingers* an expected Dead Air S5 can approval, I’ll report back here.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2023 1:07:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Seems like most are out by Middlefield. I usually end up going to the ODNR range near there from March - December. I am a member of shooting club called ORCO in Geneva but that's a solid hour from Akron.
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Posted: 4/2/2023 11:06:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Update:
Finally got her zeroed. I had 8 other platforms to zero so I didn't spend much time running drills and building rounds counts with it. I did notice that on the suppressed setting it was still feeling overgassed. Ammo was Tula steel case, suppressor was Rugged Razor 7.62, by most measures a fairly low pressure can for a 5.56 gun. Ejection was still around 1400. I finalized my zero with Ammo Inc .223 loaded with 60gr Vmax. Ejection was about the same. I wish the suppressed port were a little more restricted, but function was perfect. More testing required. |
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Posted: 4/2/2023 2:41:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hox: I wish the suppressed port were a little more restricted, but function was perfect. Haven't tried Tula in it though. I usually have to use the adverse setting to get Tula or Wolf to cycle in a dirty AUG or F2000 (also with no suppressor). It's typically kinda weak. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2023 7:29:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Necroposting I know, but how's the upper holding up? I wanted a POF but saw one of these and it really caught my eye.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2023 2:32:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By snog702: Necroposting I know, but how's the upper holding up? I wanted a POF but saw one of these and it really caught my eye. They're built like tanks, and I'd take a Caracal over any two POF uppers. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2023 12:56:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Beautiful rifle.....I got mine last month, better designed than the HK 416 which I have used......
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USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 8:42:24 AM EDT
[#16]
I've owned a ton of piston ARs over the years including about a dozen LWRC (nearly every model and barrel length), Adams Arms, POF (three models), LMT, and HK. I ordered a Caracal last night because like others the design really seems solid and its linage is reputable.
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2023 6:07:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: I've owned a ton of piston ARs over the years including about a dozen LWRC (nearly every model and barrel length), Adams Arms, POF (three models), LMT, and HK. I ordered a Caracal last night because like others the design really seems solid and its linage is reputable. Have you gotten your 816 yet? Curious of your impressions. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2023 10:42:25 PM EDT
[#18]
It was delivered (and I picked it up) on Wednesday.
I haven’t taken it to the range yet, but conducting a “table top” examination yields a very positive impression. The design is solid, the execution is high quality, and the handling is very nice. I never give recommendations without having thoroughly tested a product, but if I did give them based solely on a visual inspection the Caracal would be a “must buy”. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2023 10:46:50 PM EDT
[#19]
FWIW … if it functions and shoots as well as I expect based upon other reviewers / my initial impression … I’d be in the market for a second unit. This would allow me to keep one in reserve since it does use proprietary parts.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 10:57:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: FWIW if it functions and shoots as well as I expect based upon other reviewers / my initial impression I'd be in the market for a second unit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: FWIW if it functions and shoots as well as I expect based upon other reviewers / my initial impression I'd be in the market for a second unit. I also haven't fired mine enough for a thorough review, but the 11.5" functions great and isn't overgassed. I need to stick a can on it and try the suppressed setting. This would allow me to keep one in reserve since it does use proprietary parts. I'd really like to hear from someone who has used a SIG 516 barrel nut wrench to remove the barrel assembly. I'm hoping that is the same too. Older thread with pics of internals: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Caracal-816-A2/126-771527/#i8464058 |
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Posted: 7/13/2023 12:43:53 AM EDT
[#21]
I ended up trading the upper for some body armor. Value wise, I came out way on top. Brand new the plates were $950 a piece and the condition of them may as well have been new. My only gripe with the Caracal was the suppressor setting was giving too much gas in my opinion. I was Using a Rugged Razor 7.62, by most metrics a lower back pressure can on 5.56. The ejection pattern was about 2 o'clock. I have some higher back pressure cans in jail and wasn't sure I'd wanted to hang onto it to see how it fared with even more gas. I have B&T APC223 and CZ Bren 2 in 5.56 for my piston game, so figured id stick with that in the end when I got a trade offer on much lighter weight plates.
As far as AR piston designs, PWS has still been the best gas system I've used. All that said, The Caracal appeared very well made. Machining and tolerances were excellent, no wobble on my lowers (can't say that for my KAC's), clean and even finishes on everything, and the system as a whole looked and felt like it'd run for several lifetimes of abuse. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/7/2023 12:38:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hox: I ended up trading the upper for some body armor. Value wise, I came out way on top. Brand new the plates were $950 a piece and the condition of them may as well have been new. My only gripe with the Caracal was the suppressor setting was giving too much gas in my opinion. I was Using a Rugged Razor 7.62, by most metrics a lower back pressure can on 5.56. The ejection pattern was about 2 o'clock. I have some higher back pressure cans in jail and wasn't sure I'd wanted to hang onto it to see how it fared with even more gas. I have B&T APC223 and CZ Bren 2 in 5.56 for my piston game, so figured id stick with that in the end when I got a trade offer on much lighter weight plates. As far as AR piston designs, PWS has still been the best gas system I've used. All that said, The Caracal appeared very well made. Machining and tolerances were excellent, no wobble on my lowers (can't say that for my KAC's), clean and even finishes on everything, and the system as a whole looked and felt like it'd run for several lifetimes of abuse. I've used quite a few piston ARs ... Adams Arms Caracal Colt HK LMT LWRC POF PWS ...probably forgetting one or two Of these ... Adams Arms ... budget choice. Nothing to talk about here. Colt ... stick with DI. Caracal ... great system and rifle HK ... heavy with untreated barrel / tapered bore but great gas system. Too heavy. LMT ... great system but can be heavy with barrels over 14.3". LWRC ... I wanted to love these but had tons of issues with steel case ammo. POF ... everyone hates on POF but their gas system is very simple and reliable. I liked the "MOE" version not the skyscrapper high railed versions. PWS ... lacks the pedigree of HK / Caracal / Haenel but is also likely the best system available (also the only long stroke). ETA: the people at PWS are also very friendly / customer service oriented. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/7/2023 8:28:22 PM EDT
[#23]
"HK ... heavy with untreated barrel / tapered bore but great gas system. Too heavy."
I found that the 9 inch quad rail and the HK slim stock shaved 9 ounces from the fat German. I'd like to try an 816, haven't heard back from them. Emailed a few weeks back. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:22:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: "HK ... heavy with untreated barrel / tapered bore but great gas system. Too heavy." I found that the 9 inch quad rail and the HK slim stock shaved 9 ounces from the fat German. I'd like to try an 816, haven't heard back from them. Emailed a few weeks back. Some people like their girls heavy. No judgement zone. If you get a chance to shoot an 816 I don't think you'll likely feel neutral about it. They are extremely nice guns, but it isn't a shooting experience that leaves you thinking "that was extraordinarily different from XYZ". They're smooth and accurate. You'll probably like the gun as much as I do, but it is still just a piston AR. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 6:17:59 PM EDT
[#25]
I am wanting an 11.5 or 12in SBR upper so I can put a suppressor on it. Either the 816 or the LMT. LMT had some really good black Friday sale items, but the Caracal beats it on price.
Just not in the versatility category - not sure that is worth the extra cash. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/17/2023 8:30:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uys: I am wanting an 11.5 or 12in SBR upper so I can put a suppressor on it. Either the 816 or the LMT. LMT had some really good black Friday sale items, but the Caracal beats it on price. Just not in the versatility category - not sure that is worth the extra cash. @Uys If you’re trying to decide between a Caracal and LMT the answer lies in the question. If mono uppers with QC barrels are more important than the piston system then LMT. If the most up to date and tested piston system without parts support or versatility then Caracal. If I were at your decision point I would get the LMT. If you ever want to run active NV or a clip on Thermal the monolithic upper is unquestionably superior. Also, any torque wrench will pull / reset the barrel. People are still debating if a Sig516 wrench will work on the CAR816. Some day you might want to use that upper on a non SBR DI. Two screws, 16” barrel, 30 seconds later … done. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 12/17/2023 12:14:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Pretty sure the Sig 516 and Caracal piston systems are virtually identical, all they did with the Caracal is machine the beefy piston rod down a little to reduce mass slightly on the Caracal. IIRC someone swapped complete piston rods and they ran fine.
The only wear items I'd be concerned with are the piston spring and erosion on the gas selector holes, every other wear part is standard AR15. Also the difficulty in finding barrels with OTB inserts, but you have the same issue with the 416 and Caracal. I figure if I have the money to wear out a barrel, piston spring and erode the gas ports, I can afford to send it to Sig for refurb by then. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/17/2023 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#28]
When it comes down to nut cutting, LMT would be $2000 for the upper, complete piston bcg, 12in piston bbl and a 16in DI barrel. About $1600 without the DI bbl.
OpticsPlanet has Caracal 816 uppers for $1129. OP has some coupon codes so I'll call it $1k. Direct from Caracal for $799 would be much preferred. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/21/2023 11:15:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776]
[#29]
I fired my Caracal CAR816A2 yesterday. It has pretty sharp recoil even with the gas setting "tuned down" to the suppressor setting. My rifle has KAC BUIS, LaRue MBT2S trigger, and Vortex Razor Gen 2 HD 1-6 in a LaRue SPR mount. Its a pretty heavy rig as configured.
Overall, I like my Caracal but have a hard time not wanting to sit it on the table while I shoot a DI. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2023 1:02:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: @Uys If you’re trying to decide between a Caracal and LMT the answer lies in the question. If mono uppers with QC barrels are more important than the piston system then LMT. If the most up to date and tested piston system without parts support or versatility then Caracal. If I were at your decision point I would get the LMT. If you ever want to run active NV or a clip on Thermal the monolithic upper is unquestionably superior. Also, any torque wrench will pull / reset the barrel. People are still debating if a Sig516 wrench will work on the CAR816. Some day you might want to use that upper on a non SBR DI. Two screws, 16” barrel, 30 seconds later … done. GaryT1776 - thanks for being an enabler LMT has a sale that I could not say no to: MRP 9.25 length upper w/ the Estonia BUIS for $599 and their G2 piston bcg for $279. Got some spare MRP parts like piston/spring, screws/washer and H2 buffer. Stuff not listed on sale was 20% with the 12DAYS code. Orders over 1k get their Euro Axle trigger for free. And free shipping. PA has the Estonia 12 inch piston bbl for $555 so there I go. Caracal not getting back to me after a month was the deciding factor. I don't really need the versatility, but now I have a rabbit hole to go down for more stuff. PA and RoofTop Defense seem to always have LMT stock for sale. |
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