AR Sponsor
Braceman raided by ATF. (Page 8 of 10)
Joined:
Nov 2022
Posts:
397
EE: 100% (16)
SD, USA
|
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: You're being argumentative. I have no control over Arfcom or Braceman, but it is my personal belief that he will never post here again on advice of counsel. Exactly. All of the speculative hypotheticals posted here are false until proven otherwise by the man himself. No sense in making up fake news. |
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
353
EE: 0% (0)
MO, USA
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
354
EE: 0% (0)
MO, USA
|
Originally Posted By kanjen95: I just feel for him and his family, and wont speculate on the why because from what we do know, alot of what went on doesnt make sense, with the flashbanging digging seizing etc and apparently he wasnt even arrested- which would point to him being cleared of doing anything wrong, so why all that in the first place? Will this be the old "show me the man and i'll show you the crime" thing, and they just havent been able to find one and were overly confident that they would? I have never met John in person but we had a few conversations about retro AR stuff, and he knew because he is who he is, he couldnt even have a demilled rear stub laying around, even with the 3rd hole removed, without it possibly being construed as constructive possession. Just not a lawbreaker type! Much more like a dedicated father who takes his kids fishing frequently, has a full time job and a one of a kind side gig; all of which present him with alot to lose. ETA, I know! 100% legal. Process is the punishment since they may never charge him and will probably never give him back his property. Unless someone with more power finally slaps down FATF. The Navy vet with his fake SMG and RPG is living proof they will even lie on the stand to convict if they want to railroad you into prison. |
Joined:
Sep 2024
Posts:
355
EE: 0% (0)
MO, USA
|
Originally Posted By dedreckon: Process is the punishment since they may never charge him and will probably never give him back his property. Unless someone with more power finally slaps down FATF. The Navy vet with his fake SMG and RPG is living proof they will even lie on the stand to convict if they want to railroad you into prison. This is likely what happened. There is also a member here who claims he used to have an account here, but forgot his password, so now the account he uses mimics the old username. Everything this troll does is to get your information. Most recently, is super keen on getting the personal information of machinists. This same guy inboxed me well after Id gotten a gooseneck mount and had even posted pictures of it. This guy keeps trying to get peoples information through various methods. He also lives in Michigan and as a matter of fact was asking for Brace info in this forum very recently. He is not very sophisticated, I believe he fishes for information and then calls it into a hotline as some kind of twisted activist. I have been wrong before, but im sure if you read or post here you will know whom it is I am referring to. Head on a swivel! Even if that guy has nothing to with bman, his actions are as I have described. |
|
Originally Posted By kanjen95: This is likely what happened. There is also a member here who claims he used to have an account here, but forgot his password, so now the account he uses mimics the old username. Everything this troll does is to get your information. Most recently, is super keen on getting the personal information of machinists. This same guy inboxed me well after Id gotten a gooseneck mount and had even posted pictures of it. This guy keeps trying to get peoples information through various methods. He also lives in Michigan and as a matter of fact was asking for Brace info in this forum very recently. He is not very sophisticated, I believe he fishes for information and then calls it into a hotline as some kind of twisted activist. I have been wrong before, but im sure if you read or post here you will know whom it is I am referring to. Head on a swivel! Even if that guy has nothing to with bman, his actions are as I have described. @kanjen95 If you think someone is up to malicious acts and is making false reports to .gov...You know you can easily report a person like that to the mods to look into right? @Aimless |
|
Holy sht! I just saw this thread . This is messed up. Brace has been making parts for me since he first showed up on the forum . Matter of fact , he has a box on a shelf with name on it, full of parts . Which I’m guessing belong to the atf ….. I’m guessing no , but any news ? |
|
Originally Posted By kanjen95: This is likely what happened. There is also a member here who claims he used to have an account here, but forgot his password, so now the account he uses mimics the old username. Everything this troll does is to get your information. Most recently, is super keen on getting the personal information of machinists. This same guy inboxed me well after Id gotten a gooseneck mount and had even posted pictures of it. This guy keeps trying to get peoples information through various methods. He also lives in Michigan and as a matter of fact was asking for Brace info in this forum very recently. He is not very sophisticated, I believe he fishes for information and then calls it into a hotline as some kind of twisted activist. I have been wrong before, but im sure if you read or post here you will know whom it is I am referring to. Head on a swivel! Even if that guy has nothing to with bman, his actions are as I have described. I Know the person you are talking about, have known him for about 15 years. Made parts for his pistol and spoken to him on the phone many times. His pistol has been featured in a couple youtube videos even. You are 100% wrong about him and should delete this post. Calm down and don't accuse people of things you obviously don't know about. From his hushpuppy build   S&W Mk 22 Mod 0 Hush Puppy |
|
Originally Posted By Trimdad: Holy sht! I just saw this thread . This is messed up. Brace has been making parts for me since he first showed up on the forum . Matter of fact , he has a box on a shelf with name on it, full of parts . Which I’m guessing belong to the atf ….. I’m guessing no , but any news ? Dude , I haven’t seen you in probably close to a decade. If you ever want to head out to Fouled Bore hit me up. I don’t see many old school retro forum members posting any more. I haven’t done retro in years. Mostly hang out in the A2 forum now. |
|
Originally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Would charges be required for items to go into a state of forfeiture? Most common reason is voluntary surrender. Second most common is involuntary seizure, followed by the civil asset forfeiture process (in either instance). If there are charges, it’ll likely be held as evidence and therefore not appear on that list. |
|
The ATF listings are never that nice as far as how the state shows up, how many times it shows up, or how they scatter the forfeiture listings of any one party on the multiple listing for that state. They also add additional stuff sometimes as time goes by. There are multiple department agency listings found there including the US Attorney ones. |
|
Originally Posted By thomasplaster223: FREE BRACEMAN! Here, Here!!! A Very Talented Individual, that was instrumental in the sight mount for my Son Tay Raider Project. I feel he was unjustly targeted. Emails and phone conversations as well as post from him on this forum all indicated that he did not & would not complete projects that crossed the line. I keep coming back to this post in hopes of seeing this all was a big mistake. |
Expert in topics no one cares about
Joined:
May 2005
Posts:
48019
EE: 100% (26)
MO, USA
| I just sent a synopsis of what happened and Braceman's contact info to a buddy of mine, who happens to be the childhood best friend of the acting ATF director. Probably a long shot, but if he needs any current examples of ATF abuse, this is surely a good one. |
What's the difference between a nuclear weapon and a grenade launcher? I don't own a nuclear weapon.
|
Originally Posted By j3_: The ATF listings are never that nice as far as how the state shows up, how many times it shows up, or how they scatter the forfeiture listings of any one party on the multiple listing for that state. They also add additional stuff sometimes as time goes by. There are multiple department agency listings found there including the US Attorney ones. Looks like his stuff is there on forfeiture.gov, but not ATF, Department of Homeland Security raided him. https://www.forfeiture.gov/ After going to the link, click on "us customs and border protection" link at the bottom of the page, from page 916 to page 923. The middle of page 916 they start with his machines. They list serial numbers so maybe customers can claim their property. This might be a warning to "cloners", DHS is not only going after illigal aliens. |
|
Originally Posted By AirborneCIB: Looks like his stuff is there on forfeiture.gov, but not ATF, Department of Homeland Security raided him. https://www.forfeiture.gov/ After going to the link, click on "us customs and border protection" link at the bottom of the page, from page 916 to page 923. The middle of page 916 they start with his machines. They list serial numbers so maybe customers can claim their property. This might be a warning to "cloners", DHS is not only going after illigal aliens. How on earth did you find that? |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
|
Originally Posted By bigbore: How on earth did you find that? Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By AirborneCIB: Looks like his stuff is there on forfeiture.gov, but not ATF, Department of Homeland Security raided him. https://www.forfeiture.gov/ After going to the link, click on "us customs and border protection" link at the bottom of the page, from page 916 to page 923. The middle of page 916 they start with his machines. They list serial numbers so maybe customers can claim their property. This might be a warning to "cloners", DHS is not only going after illigal aliens. How on earth did you find that? +1 |
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless
|
Originally Posted By bigbore: How on earth did you find that? Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By AirborneCIB: Looks like his stuff is there on forfeiture.gov, but not ATF, Department of Homeland Security raided him. https://www.forfeiture.gov/ After going to the link, click on "us customs and border protection" link at the bottom of the page, from page 916 to page 923. The middle of page 916 they start with his machines. They list serial numbers so maybe customers can claim their property. This might be a warning to "cloners", DHS is not only going after illigal aliens. How on earth did you find that? so... Gofundme to buy it back and return it to him? |
Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
Joined:
Mar 2007
Posts:
17308
EE: 100% (76)
USA
|
Originally Posted By AirborneCIB: Looks like his stuff is there on forfeiture.gov, but not ATF, Department of Homeland Security raided him. https://www.forfeiture.gov/ After going to the link, click on "us customs and border protection" link at the bottom of the page, from page 916 to page 923. The middle of page 916 they start with his machines. They list serial numbers so maybe customers can claim their property. This might be a warning to "cloners", DHS is not only going after illigal aliens. Originally Posted By AirborneCIB: Originally Posted By j3_: The ATF listings are never that nice as far as how the state shows up, how many times it shows up, or how they scatter the forfeiture listings of any one party on the multiple listing for that state. They also add additional stuff sometimes as time goes by. There are multiple department agency listings found there including the US Attorney ones. Looks like his stuff is there on forfeiture.gov, but not ATF, Department of Homeland Security raided him. https://www.forfeiture.gov/ After going to the link, click on "us customs and border protection" link at the bottom of the page, from page 916 to page 923. The middle of page 916 they start with his machines. They list serial numbers so maybe customers can claim their property. This might be a warning to "cloners", DHS is not only going after illigal aliens. There are many " riffles" in that list. Fucking idiots. |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
|
Originally Posted By SmashedRollpin: I looked up Braceman's name on the asset forfeiture site and only return machine guns taken by the ATF. I'm not posting the docs because they state Braceman's full name. Whoa! ATF has 129 pages of stolen property, DHS has 1120 pages of stolen property. Somebody has been busy. |
So after reading this: I'm wondering if they went after him for manufacturing and possession of unregistered NFA toys along with counterfeiting. If counterfeiting is what they are used to initially to go after him for doing roll marks, will they go after his customers since they seized his drives and computers. Are they going to go after cloners?         |
-Let him bear the palm who has won it
Joined:
Aug 2024
Posts:
89
EE: 100% (6)
USA
|
Originally Posted By Trucker69: I’m thinking that the word “counterfeit” doesn’t have anything to do with any potential charges or violations. It’s probably just used in the way we use “clone” to differentiate the seized guns from actual factory built. The laws cited refer to counterfeiting. Would also explain why the stuff is under DHS/CBP instead of ATF. |
| One component of the crime DHS is missing is fraud. But persecuting American Citizens with our money is nothing new. It is going to get worse, these agencies have become so bloated and secretive and we allow it to happen. How does that saying go? Back the blue, until it happens to you? |
|
The ATF stuff has been up for a good while almost since I posted. Figured there was more but I was only watching the US attorney list thinking anything else would show up there. The ATF list as I mentioned is not always in one spot in their list. You have to go through all the multiple listing for one area to find all related forfeitures sometimes. If you find one list in their stuff you may have to keep looking to see if there is more. It cycles out of the list as time goes by also. There is more than one list in the ATF listings. The other list is close to cycling off the listings. Not related to this thread. I posted a good while back in someone's thread about a case back then on the ATF news where one of the charges tacked on to the main ones was related to counterfeit markings on a firearm. Don't think it is anything new to them so to speak. Would not surprise me if they went backwards if a clone gun was to wind up in some other case. |
|
I for one would donate to the cause, this is BS. At minimum we could buy back the stuff and give it to Braceman (if it could happen that way). Does anyone know what kicked this off? I recall there was an 'informant' but don't recall if it was a guess or someone knew of an actual person who lied to save himself some jail time. |
|
Originally Posted By bmarshall1: Does anyone know what kicked this off? I recall there was an 'informant' but don't recall if it was a guess or someone knew of an actual person who lied to save himself some jail time. I would guess it was his customers stuff getting caught up in the US Anodizing mess that got him on the radar. From there one of his customers threw him under the bus to save his ass. If that's what happened, I probably know who it was. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
Joined:
Mar 2007
Posts:
17311
EE: 100% (76)
USA
|
Originally Posted By bigbore: I would guess it was his customers stuff getting caught up in the US Anodizing mess ..... Is there a good link or thread here that explains what happened at US Anodizing? |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
|
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Is there a good link or thread here that explains what happened at US Anodizing? Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Originally Posted By bigbore: I would guess it was his customers stuff getting caught up in the US Anodizing mess ..... Is there a good link or thread here that explains what happened at US Anodizing? https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/6-1944578/?r=7332586&qte=1 A good part of the info is there, I believe. |
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless
|
Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Doesn't counterfeiting require the intent of deception and profit? Here's what I've been reading: https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1704-trademark-counterfeiting-elements-18-usc-2320 https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1715-trademark-counterfeiting-requirements-counterfeit-mark |
|
Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: Some good info in those links. Some key take aways before anyone goes and destroys their stuff: "The genuine mark is in use. The genuine mark must not only be registered, it must also be in use. 18 U.S.C. § 2320(d)(1)(A)(ii)" "traffic" is broadly defined in the statute to mean "transport, transfer, or otherwise dispose of, to another, as consideration for anything of value, or make or obtain control of with intent so to transport, transfer or dispose of." 18 U.S.C. § 2320(d)(2). "The knowing purchase of goods bearing counterfeit marks for the purchaser's personal use, however, is not covered by this statute." Who is the victim? You’d have to have cooperating victims in the company that is being counterfeited (cloned) right? |
I'm no holster sniffer but if someone burned down the town garage and threw canned corn at the snow plow guys I'd drop off a case of beer at the DPW. ~Aimless
|
Originally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Confiscating legal machinery before having a trial and conviction seems awfully heavy handed. The wake of Prohibition era laws still splashing about. I'm assuming after the unregistered MGs were uncovered the defendant made a plea deal. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
|
Originally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Confiscating legal machinery before having a trial and conviction seems awfully heavy handed. The wake of Prohibition era laws still splashing about. The civil asset forfeiture reform act of 2020 was aimed to improve the fairness and uniformity of federal civil forfeiture proceedings, offering some protections to citizens that were having property siezed by government agencies and forfeitured under the comprehensive crime control act of 1984. In practice, this civil asset forfeiture reform act did little to help Americans from having their property stolen from government agencies. https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2020-09/OIG-20-66-Aug20.pdf This link above shows how bad it really is. 98% of all assets seized and kept by DHS is administrative, meaning no indictment, no conviction, no sentence. If you are able, please make a donation to the Institute for Justice. They work hard to Stop the Government from Taking Property from People Never Charged with a Crime. See link below. https://ij.org/issues/private-property/civil-forfeiture/ We as Americans think that the government only seizes property if there is a conviction of a crime, right? In reality it is 1%. And then the "Jetway Robbery". The more than 2 Billion dollars that DHS has taken from travelers from 2000 to 2016 is 100 percent administrative. The reason we have no data after 2016 is DHS' refusal to respond to FOIA requests. See link below. https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-cbp-other-dhs-agencies-seized-500-million-from-air-travelers-over-missing-paperwork/ And HSI is the largest federal law enforcement agency, DOJ being the second largest and DHS is supposed to be part of the DOJ. And another misconception is that DHS only goes after non citizens when the majority of raids, 10 times as many raids as any other federal agencies, and the majority, 90% are after American Citizens. |
Joined:
Aug 2024
Posts:
90
EE: 100% (6)
USA
|
Originally Posted By Trucker69: So just thinking here and I could be totally off base. What if somebody had Braceman engrave an 80% lower with a registered machinegun serial number and tried to fraudulently get that gun registered to them? Is that something that could possibly happen? I doubt it. If something was cloned and wound up in a crime or illegal export scheme it might get the ball rolling backwards. |
Potentate plenipotentiary sans portfolio
Joined:
Mar 2007
Posts:
17335
EE: 100% (76)
USA
|
Originally Posted By bigbore: I'm assuming after the unregistered MGs were uncovered the defendant made a plea deal. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Confiscating legal machinery before having a trial and conviction seems awfully heavy handed. The wake of Prohibition era laws still splashing about. I'm assuming after the unregistered MGs were uncovered the defendant made a plea deal. Does "the defendant" = Braceman in this statement? |
" If govt parsimony is economic madness, and debt-fuelled govt spending a recipe for riches, why aren't the Greeks bailing out the Germans?"
Braceman raided by ATF. (Page 8 of 10)
AR Sponsor