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Braceman raided by ATF. (Page 5 of 10)
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Originally Posted By mlin: Doesn't matter who is the current POTUS or ATF Director. They only set policy, it's the staff way down the chain at field that make those decisions enforcing the law as how they interpreted. The Trump administration claims to be 2A friendly, but so far they’ve all turned out to be a disappointment. They can easily set policy so that this raid would not have happened. The ATF director can issue new rules that rescind older ones and cut back on the level of creativity the ATF has over interpreting what is a “firearm or machinegun.” The POTUS can issue an EO targeting specific rules or direct the ATF to do so. But instead all we got was a toothless and vague EO that wasn’t even good on paper, and a director who was recently dismissed (turns out he only spent ONE hour on the job as ATF director and was never seen at HQ after that). |
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Originally Posted By mooneymedic: Trying to look up the court records, anyone have luck? A search warrant wont be in court records. He wasn't arrested. If they found anything in the raid to indite him, then the public court records will be available. But again, that could be a year or so. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By kanjen95: https://i.ibb.co/ynZRJ0dY/Screenshot-20250414-160806-Gallery.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/ynZRJ0dY/Screenshot-20250414-160806-Gallery.jpg Xm177e2 pieces are pretty rare. If he did a lot of that kinda work, wonder if that's what got the ATF upset? Seems it's close to "Ship of Theseus". Wouldn't put it past them to argue that that's reactivating a destroyed machinegun. |
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That is a huge stretch. You start with an 80% receiver and a piece of scrap metal (not a firearm ot MG). After John does his work, you still have an 80% receiver with the magwell replaced by scrap metal. Still not a firearm or MG. If it was a problem then everyone who owns a 80% unfinished receiver is in danger. But it seems the new DOJ/ATF is just as dishonest as the last one. |
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Originally Posted By RedFox1911: Post that supreme court ruling on 80% guns, that is the problem. Originally Posted By RedFox1911: Originally Posted By bigbore: He doesn't have an FFL. Post that supreme court ruling on 80% guns, that is the problem. No, it's not. Has nothing to do w/ this case. |
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Originally Posted By Apec: That is a huge stretch. You start with an 80% receiver and a piece of scrap metal (not a firearm ot MG). After John does his work, you still have an 80% receiver with the magwell replaced by scrap metal. Still not a firearm or MG. If it was a problem then everyone who owns a 80% unfinished receiver is in danger. But it seems the new DOJ/ATF is just as dishonest as the last one. Sadly, to the ATF it’s rarely a stretch as it feels like they make it up as they go. I can easily see a scenario where ATF agent decides that because the demilled magwell has a serial number on it that once represented a machine gun, that by attaching it to the back section of an 80lower it somehow has magically become a machine gun again. Again, pure speculation but this seems the only thing that Braceman did that could even remotely interest the ATF. It’s ridiculous but sadly not shocking by ATF standards. |
| Date in the bottom corner. Looks like 2018 not that it may have been in some other publication earlier than this is dated. I know the unserviceable idea and the cutting methods of some type of firearms for destruction to import are in earlier guides. |
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Originally Posted By Unknown1Sailor: Government policy is people driven. Don't change the people, policy doesn't change. BATF is corrupt all the way down, just like the FBI. Good agents, if they exist, do nothing to stop this extra legal behavior. Well in this case, neither the people nor policy changed. The only difference between the current administration and the Biden administration is the discontinuation of zero tolerance on FFL compliance and restoring some [unfunded by congress] process to restore felon rights via the ATF (which is great, but not much… especially considering some of the questionable things the Bondi DOJ is doing to offset the little progress made). |
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I'm seeing on some of eh 3d printing groups that a number of those guys have gotten raided as well in the past couple days. Now, they aren't in the same boat a John, and some of them did indeed do sketchy stuff and were dumb enough to post said sketchy stuff. Still, I think it's interesting that ATF seems to be acting against folks in the PMF arena all at once. Whether it's happening before they get a permanent director who may crack down on them, or as a deliberate snubbing their nose at the current administration as if to show they can't stop the bureaucracy, who knows. It just gives more ammo to the folks who want to disband ATF. Let's hope someone on Washington uses it. |
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Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: Interesting. How recent is that? There are 60 years of scrap bins that thave been auctioned off that were filled with stuff destroyed by other means. How aggravating, especially since this is such a niche corner and certainly not ripe with criminals. Brace is between Detroit and Toledo. There are serious gang criminals throughout that area and a drug corridor. Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: Originally Posted By j3_: This is the most recent destruction info I have seen. And is just posted for general information. Comes from this. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-properly-destroy-firearms Interesting. How recent is that? There are 60 years of scrap bins that thave been auctioned off that were filled with stuff destroyed by other means. How aggravating, especially since this is such a niche corner and certainly not ripe with criminals. Brace is between Detroit and Toledo. There are serious gang criminals throughout that area and a drug corridor. Saw cut, destroyed firearms for sale. |
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Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: Originally Posted By j3_: This is the most recent destruction info I have seen. And is just posted for general information. Comes from this. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-properly-destroy-firearms Interesting. How recent is that? There are 60 years of scrap bins that thave been auctioned off that were filled with stuff destroyed by other means. How aggravating, especially since this is such a niche corner and certainly not ripe with criminals. Brace is between Detroit and Toledo. There are serious gang criminals throughout that area and a drug corridor. Saw cut, destroyed firearms for sale. Saw cut receivers is what they convicted Adamiak over. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: A search warrant wont be in court records. He wasn't arrested. If they found anything in the raid to indite him, then the public court records will be available. But again, that could be a year or so. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By mooneymedic: Trying to look up the court records, anyone have luck? A search warrant wont be in court records. He wasn't arrested. If they found anything in the raid to indite him, then the public court records will be available. But again, that could be a year or so. so they flashbang raided his home, siezed his equipment (which likely was a bitch to move), and damaged his property - but no arrest or charges? Since you know him, and I guess he's home, can you just call him? I'm curious what they are hoping to achieve yanking his laith out. Is there an autosear inside it somewhere or something? |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: so they flashbang raided his home, siezed his equipment (which likely was a bitch to move), and damaged his property - but no arrest or charges? Since you know him, and I guess he's home, can you just call him? I'm curious what they are hoping to achieve yanking his laith out. Is there an autosear inside it somewhere or something? I texted him, I never heard back. I don't know if he still has his cell. I'm not going to bug him. He's close by. If he wants to talk I'm sure he'll stop in the shop. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: I texted him, I never heard back. I don't know if he still has his cell. I'm not going to bug him. He's close by. If he wants to talk I'm sure he'll stop in the shop. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: so they flashbang raided his home, siezed his equipment (which likely was a bitch to move), and damaged his property - but no arrest or charges? Since you know him, and I guess he's home, can you just call him? I'm curious what they are hoping to achieve yanking his laith out. Is there an autosear inside it somewhere or something? I texted him, I never heard back. I don't know if he still has his cell. I'm not going to bug him. He's close by. If he wants to talk I'm sure he'll stop in the shop. You drive your ass over there with a fruit plate and livestream it |
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Originally Posted By Naporter: Saw cut receivers is what they convicted Adamiak over. Originally Posted By Naporter: Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: Originally Posted By j3_: This is the most recent destruction info I have seen. And is just posted for general information. Comes from this. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-properly-destroy-firearms Interesting. How recent is that? There are 60 years of scrap bins that thave been auctioned off that were filled with stuff destroyed by other means. How aggravating, especially since this is such a niche corner and certainly not ripe with criminals. Brace is between Detroit and Toledo. There are serious gang criminals throughout that area and a drug corridor. Saw cut, destroyed firearms for sale. Saw cut receivers is what they convicted Adamiak over. That is not accurate. Read the article below. Summary is the ATF and DOJ essentially manufactured charges against him, and pulled some prosecutorial misconduct to hobble his defense. https://thegunwriter.substack.com/p/atf-lied-to-convict-sailor-now-serving |
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Originally Posted By Naporter: If he did a lot of that kinda work, wonder if that's what got the ATF upset? Seems it's close to "Ship of Theseus". Wouldn't put it past them to argue that that's reactivating a destroyed machinegun. If rewelding parts is a problem, why do vendors sell demilled machinegun kits? |
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Originally Posted By Into_the_Void: You drive your ass over there with a fruit plate and livestream it Not today. I spoke to another local today, and the consensus around here is someone who John did really cool work for was facing federal time threw him under the bus. I believe John was careful regarding the law to not do anything that would bring attention to himself. My money is on someone provided him with scrap metal demilled sections/paperweights which John cleaned up, but were later finished/assembled by the person I'm thinking of who had all their guns confiscated by the ATF in a raid a coupe years ago. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Not today. I spoke to another local today, and the consensus around here is someone who John did really cool work for was facing federal time threw him under the bus. I believe John was careful regarding the law to not do anything that would bring attention to himself. My money is on someone provided him with scrap metal demilled sections/paperweights which John cleaned up, but were later finished/assembled by the person I'm thinking of who had all their guns confiscated by the ATF in a raid a coupe years ago. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By Into_the_Void: You drive your ass over there with a fruit plate and livestream it Not today. I spoke to another local today, and the consensus around here is someone who John did really cool work for was facing federal time threw him under the bus. I believe John was careful regarding the law to not do anything that would bring attention to himself. My money is on someone provided him with scrap metal demilled sections/paperweights which John cleaned up, but were later finished/assembled by the person I'm thinking of who had all their guns confiscated by the ATF in a raid a coupe years ago. Sounds completely plausible. Again though, why the hell not just knock on the door or make a phone call. |
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Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Gotta justify that budget somehow. They aren't going to larp their cool guy gear and go raid inner city chicago. Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Originally Posted By Into_the_Void: Sounds completely plausible. Again though, why the hell not just knock on the door or make a phone call. Gotta justify that budget somehow. They aren't going to larp their cool guy gear and go raid inner city chicago. Or just look at the socials and all the Glock switches posted in every home made rap video. |
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Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Gotta justify that budget somehow. They aren't going to larp their cool guy gear and go raid inner city chicago. Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Originally Posted By Into_the_Void: Sounds completely plausible. Again though, why the hell not just knock on the door or make a phone call. Gotta justify that budget somehow. They aren't going to larp their cool guy gear and go raid inner city chicago. It really is quite telling that the ATF is nowhere to be found where and when gun violence is actually taking place. |
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: It really is quite telling that the ATF is nowhere to be found where and when gun violence is actually taking place. Victor Davis Hanson has a great bit about California, but it applies to the Feds (especially the BATF) as well. It goes like this. California is the most regulated and unregulated state in the union. Unregulated in the sense that illegals get away with illegal dumping, taco trucks, road side flower shops and flea markets. None of which pay any taxes or health dept inspections. Over regulated for the honest citizen who wants to build a shed, start a business, remodel their home, put in a pond etc. The feds will totally bury an honest guy with a 15.5 inch rifle or 17 inch shotgun under the jail, but wont bother to prosecute a gang banger with a glock switch. They do this because its just easier. |
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Originally Posted By Apec: That is not accurate. Read the article below. Summary is the ATF and DOJ essentially manufactured charges against him, and pulled some prosecutorial misconduct to hobble his defense. https://thegunwriter.substack.com/p/atf-lied-to-convict-sailor-now-serving Originally Posted By Apec: Originally Posted By Naporter: Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: Originally Posted By j3_: This is the most recent destruction info I have seen. And is just posted for general information. Comes from this. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-properly-destroy-firearms Interesting. How recent is that? There are 60 years of scrap bins that thave been auctioned off that were filled with stuff destroyed by other means. How aggravating, especially since this is such a niche corner and certainly not ripe with criminals. Brace is between Detroit and Toledo. There are serious gang criminals throughout that area and a drug corridor. Saw cut, destroyed firearms for sale. Saw cut receivers is what they convicted Adamiak over. That is not accurate. Read the article below. Summary is the ATF and DOJ essentially manufactured charges against him, and pulled some prosecutorial misconduct to hobble his defense. https://thegunwriter.substack.com/p/atf-lied-to-convict-sailor-now-serving It was already covered in the thread regarding that that that article is very slanted and leaves out a lot of details. The actual filings showed they had a CI buy a saw cut PPSh receiver from him. That was the machinegun charge in the case. |
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Originally Posted By Naporter: It was already covered in the thread regarding that that that article is very slanted and leaves out a lot of details. The actual filings showed they had a CI buy a saw cut PPSh receiver from him. That was the machinegun charge in the case. What is the status of MG parts which were previously legally demilled via saw cut (or any previously allowed method) today? It would seem if they were demilled legally at the time they should remain legal but I know the government doesn't work that way. |
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Originally Posted By jhereg: What is the status of MG parts which were previously legally demilled via saw cut (or any previously allowed method) today? It would seem if they were demilled legally at the time they should remain legal but I know the government doesn't work that way. Originally Posted By jhereg: Originally Posted By Naporter: It was already covered in the thread regarding that that that article is very slanted and leaves out a lot of details. The actual filings showed they had a CI buy a saw cut PPSh receiver from him. That was the machinegun charge in the case. What is the status of MG parts which were previously legally demilled via saw cut (or any previously allowed method) today? It would seem if they were demilled legally at the time they should remain legal but I know the government doesn't work that way. No clue. I assume ATF wouldn't care and would charge you anyways, but then again, I'd also assume the number of such cases is quite small. It does highlight the issue of their capriciousness on what constitutes "readily restored". It's rather frustrating SCOTUS decided to punt on a similar concept (the dividing line between "parts" and "firearm"). |
| Fucking bullshit!!! The man is a legend and an asset to us in the retro world! I’ve had many dealings with him and I feel pretty confident in saying he’d never knowingly do anything illegal when it comes to firearms. Colt issued him a cease and desist when it comes to engraving and he never engraved it again! He refused to even engrave faux sear pins on 80% receivers because of what happened to Victor at US Anodizing…. Goddamnit!!! I fucking hate this! |
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Originally Posted By IHC53: Victor Davis Hanson has a great bit about California, but it applies to the Feds (especially the BATF) as well. It goes like this. California is the most regulated and unregulated state in the union. Unregulated in the sense that illegals get away with illegal dumping, taco trucks, road side flower shops and flea markets. None of which pay any taxes or health dept inspections. Over regulated for the honest citizen who wants to build a shed, start a business, remodel their home, put in a pond etc. The feds will totally bury an honest guy with a 15.5 inch rifle or 17 inch shotgun under the jail, but wont bother to prosecute a gang banger with a glock switch. They do this because its just easier. Originally Posted By IHC53: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: It really is quite telling that the ATF is nowhere to be found where and when gun violence is actually taking place. Victor Davis Hanson has a great bit about California, but it applies to the Feds (especially the BATF) as well. It goes like this. California is the most regulated and unregulated state in the union. Unregulated in the sense that illegals get away with illegal dumping, taco trucks, road side flower shops and flea markets. None of which pay any taxes or health dept inspections. Over regulated for the honest citizen who wants to build a shed, start a business, remodel their home, put in a pond etc. The feds will totally bury an honest guy with a 15.5 inch rifle or 17 inch shotgun under the jail, but wont bother to prosecute a gang banger with a glock switch. They do this because its just easier. I was in court waiting to testify in a different case and got to listen to several others (hilarious by the way), but one really stuck out to me. A 20-30 year old black male with a lot of face tattoos, robbed someone and ran from the police in a car, hit speeds of 80 mph in the middle of the day on our very busy roads, had a substantial amount of meth for resale and was high on meth, but also had a short barrel shotgun, stolen. The judge immediately threw out the gun and any relatable charges. |
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Originally Posted By jhereg: What is the status of MG parts which were previously legally demilled via saw cut (or any previously allowed method) today? It would seem if they were demilled legally at the time they should remain legal but I know the government doesn't work that way. Here's where it gets sticky. There are finished rifles out there with the only markings on them are the original serial number, property of US gov't, Colt markings etc that were built from welded up de-milled magwell section and 80% rear. Some of those rifles have been publicly posted on this very forum (as well as youtube and other forums) with that attaboy mentions crediting the welder. How does a cop treat that rifle and what kind of shit storm could it cause? Total hypothetical but worth thinking about if you went this route lets say you have one of these clone builds in your vehicle and you had a couple of beers with lunch with your buds on your way back from the range. Get pulled over for speeding and the next thing you know you are taking a ride and your car get's inventoried before towing. AS far as they are concerned you have a M16. That's what it says on it. That's what comes back when they run it. They contact the FATF and or FFBI regarding the "stolen M16" they've recovered. Things spiral from there. Everything is still total speculation at this point but it is more likely something fell into the FATF's lap that started a shit show than I want to give them credit for pulling off some big operation on their own. |
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Originally Posted By dusty3030: Here's where it gets sticky. There are finished rifles out there with the only markings on them are the original serial number, property of US gov't, Colt markings etc that were built from welded up de-milled magwell section and 80% rear. Some of those rifles have been publicly posted on this very forum (as well as youtube and other forums) with that attaboy mentions crediting the welder. How does a cop treat that rifle and what kind of shit storm could it cause? Total hypothetical but worth thinking about if you went this route lets say you have one of these clone builds in your vehicle and you had a couple of beers with lunch with your buds on your way back from the range. Get pulled over for speeding and the next thing you know you are taking a ride and your car get's inventoried before towing. AS far as they are concerned you have a M16. That's what it says on it. That's what comes back when they run it. They contact the FATF and or FFBI regarding the "stolen M16" they've recovered. Things spiral from there. Everything is still total speculation at this point but it is more likely something fell into the FATF's lap that started a shit show than I want to give them credit for pulling off some big operation on their own. Originally Posted By dusty3030: Originally Posted By jhereg: What is the status of MG parts which were previously legally demilled via saw cut (or any previously allowed method) today? It would seem if they were demilled legally at the time they should remain legal but I know the government doesn't work that way. Here's where it gets sticky. There are finished rifles out there with the only markings on them are the original serial number, property of US gov't, Colt markings etc that were built from welded up de-milled magwell section and 80% rear. Some of those rifles have been publicly posted on this very forum (as well as youtube and other forums) with that attaboy mentions crediting the welder. How does a cop treat that rifle and what kind of shit storm could it cause? Total hypothetical but worth thinking about if you went this route lets say you have one of these clone builds in your vehicle and you had a couple of beers with lunch with your buds on your way back from the range. Get pulled over for speeding and the next thing you know you are taking a ride and your car get's inventoried before towing. AS far as they are concerned you have a M16. That's what it says on it. That's what comes back when they run it. They contact the FATF and or FFBI regarding the "stolen M16" they've recovered. Things spiral from there. Everything is still total speculation at this point but it is more likely something fell into the FATF's lap that started a shit show than I want to give them credit for pulling off some big operation on their own. What difference does it make? What if in your hypothetical, the gun in question was a Colt retro reissue CRM16A1 (clone correct gov markings). Or just an engraved 80 that was finished, no reweld involved. Or a remarked gun. Or any number of aftermarket clone 100% lowers with wrong features, but “Property of US Govt” and “M4A1 or M16” markings. https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-m16a1-reissue-crm16a1/ Having a “M16” isn’t illegal if it’s a title I firearm or properly registered title II. Hell, plenty of HK owners have gotten their HK94s and SP5s re-marked to “MP5,” “MP5K/PDW” or “MP5SD” |
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Originally Posted By Apec: What difference does it make? What if in your hypothetical, the gun in question was a Colt retro reissue CRM16A1 (clone correct gov markings). Or just an engraved 80 that was finished, no reweld involved. Or a remarked gun. Or any number of aftermarket clone 100% lowers with wrong features, but “Property of US Govt” and “M4A1 or M16” markings. https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-m16a1-reissue-crm16a1/ Having a “M16” isn’t illegal if it’s a title I firearm or properly registered title II. Hell, plenty of HK owners have gotten their HK94s and SP5s re-marked to “MP5,” “MP5K/PDW” or “MP5SD” What difference? You don't get it. A Colt reissue comes back as what it is when they run it and it was sold as such 4473 ran no problems. Same for the H&K's you mention. That demilled chunk serial numbers comes back as a machine gun that went from Colt to the US gov't and don't have any paperwork to prove otherwise. |
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To recap: We have no idea what actually happened. We will not know what actually happened until: 1 Braceman publicly comments (I suggest invoking the right to remain silent), or 2. Braceman is indicted by a federal grand jury and his case readable on PACER. Until then everything is unsupported conjecture. May I suggest that those of you who know Braceman reach out with letters and calls of support and assist him financially if you are in a position to do so. FEDCOURT is expensive and this is a long process (Think 18-36 months until resolution). R/S 18Z50... |
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Originally Posted By Naporter: It was already covered in the thread regarding that that that article is very slanted and leaves out a lot of details. The actual filings showed they had a CI buy a saw cut PPSh receiver from him. That was the machinegun charge in the case. The actual filings by the DOJ say he's guilty? OK, if the DOJ said in writing he's guilty, I believe them. 
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I think the hardest thing for good LE working for good agencies to really absorb is that there are whole departments full of exactly the complete fuckheads we rail against here. - vectorsc
| The disgusting part about this is it could have resulted from nothing but an uncorroborated lie told by a CI, causing him significant damages, never result in a charge, and the government will just "oh well" without even a "sorry we wrecked your shit." No one involved will be held accountable for significantly disrupting a law abiding citizen's life, more likely they'll be rewarded. |
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Originally Posted By dusty3030: What difference? You don't get it. A Colt reissue comes back as what it is when they run it and it was sold as such 4473 ran no problems. Same for the H&K's you mention. That demilled chunk serial numbers comes back as a machine gun that went from Colt to the US gov't and don't have any paperwork to prove otherwise. Except there is evidence to prove otherwise. The DoD small arms registry will show it as destroyed and the date of destruction. Sure to be an interesting reaction from ATF when they tell the .mil that a lost M16 has been recovered only to find out that M16 was destroyed by the .mil. The more interesting case is the cloners who have taken an 80% and recreated weapons carried in the .mil. The ATF runs the number and the Army says no, not lost or stolen, it is currently at Camp Swampy.  More of this will happen as long as the ATF keeps hiring people who don't know anything about guns. |
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Originally Posted By dusty3030: What difference? You don't get it. A Colt reissue comes back as what it is when they run it and it was sold as such 4473 ran no problems. Same for the H&K's you mention. That demilled chunk serial numbers comes back as a machine gun that went from Colt to the US gov't and don't have any paperwork to prove otherwise. Military weapons are tracked from cradle to grave. If running the serial number can determine that a rifle was stolen from military stores, it can also determine that one was destroyed at the end of its servoce life as would be the case in this hypothetical. That is, if the cop is too stupid to tell from the lack of a 3rd pin hole that it is plainly not a machinegun in the first place. |
Braceman raided by ATF. (Page 5 of 10)
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