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Posted: 10/18/2018 8:48:18 AM EDT
So I have been curious as to the differences between the performance of two major players in the "Cold Hammer Forged" barrel game... Daniel Defense and FN.
I have two AR's with Cold Hammer Forged barrels... One by Daniel Defense, and one by FN. Both have almost identical number of rounds through them, but the DD barrel outshoots the FN barrel with every range trip. I recently purchased two new CHF barrels for other builds, and you guessed it... one is a DD barrel and one is a FN barrel. I threw the borescope in all 4 of them, and was surprised by what I found. Barrel #1: Daniel Defense 14.5" midlength CHF Lightweight Barrel with just over 1000 rounds through it (this is a superbly accurate barrel) : 
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:31:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Barrel #2: Spikes Tactical (made by FN) 16" midlength CHF "optimum profile" barrel with just over 1000 rounds through it (can never seem to get this one to shoot below 1.25 moa)
Barrel #3: Daniel Defense 16" midlength CHF Gov. Profile - New and Unfired 
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:31:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Barrel #4: Ballistic Advantage (made by FN) 14.5" midlength "hanson profile" - New and Unfired
 Observations - The FN produced barrels show significantly more tooling marks, and its unclear from the first picture of the Spikes barrel if the rifling at the throat is missing? In any case, both FN barrels show similar tooling marks perpendicular to the bore. Both Daniel Defense barrels have much more uniform bores, and as mentioned previously, the accuracy I get out of the lightweight 14.5 is impressive to say the least, and I can never seem to get the Spikes barrel to shoot well. Anyone else have similar findings? |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:41:46 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm almost certain that DD did the barrels for Ballistic Advantage, not FN. Might want to double check that.
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:49:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm almost certain that DD did the barrels for Ballistic Advantage, not FN. Might want to double check that. |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:56:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Are BA barrels made by FN?
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Posted: 10/14/2018 9:58:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are BA barrels made by FN? |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 10:29:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Yeah, I had heard DD. But it's hard to nail down a definite answer.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 7:28:49 AM EDT
[#8]
that DD barrel is beautiful, even after 1000 rds. I wish DD made a 16" S2W barrel in 5.56.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 8:55:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that DD barrel is beautiful, even after 1000 rds. I wish DD made a 16" S2W barrel in 5.56. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 8:58:02 AM EDT
[#10]
That Daniel Defense sure looks good! Who are they using for their OE barrels?
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:02:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Yes sir.
I have found Daniel Defense barrels to be as consistently good as Colt barrels. Colt and DD are the only barrels I own anymore. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:04:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That Daniel Defense sure looks good! Who are they using for their OE barrels? They make them in house. My DD lightweight (.625") has been incredible with just irons. I'm actually going to slap a SS10X on it next time I hit the range with some razor core and see what it does. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:05:01 AM EDT
[#13]
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel?
I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:10:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:38:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:25:57 AM EDT
[#16]
I could never get a clear answer from vendors or BA on who made the limited CHF barrels. I wanted one for the Hanson profile. but just bought another DD as they perform better accuracy wise than the FN i have used
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:29:14 AM EDT
[#17]
"BaRrEl bReAk-iN iSN't NecESsARy"
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:56:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. Shooting some 77gr Nosler handloads, the Daniel Defense turned in the following 10-shot group sizes: 1.501", 1.199" and 1.054". So the average was 1.251". This is Nosler 77gr over H322. 
This is with American Eagle 50gr varmint. Prone, Bipod Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9 Scope. 
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Posted: 10/15/2018 11:07:04 AM EDT
[#19]
What kind of bore scope was used?
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Posted: 10/15/2018 11:23:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of bore scope was used? |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 11:43:27 AM EDT
[#21]
your images help explain why in 45 yrs of "practical shooting" ARs, my DD lightweight barrels have been the most accurate
if i do my part i can get 3" groups at 400yds using cheapie Federal AE 223 55gr fmj the only reason i buy other brands is when DD doesn't make the barrel i need |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 11:56:06 AM EDT
[#22]
0.75 MOA with factory FMJ. Wow.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 12:08:07 PM EDT
[#23]
DD may have a process they only do for their stuff or
A company has DD make some barrels for them. They give them a price point and say we want hammer forged for X dollars. So they make them for X dollars not performing the same steps they would if the product was going to have DD engraved on it. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 12:14:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DD may have a process they only do for their stuff or A company has DD make some barrels for them. They give them a price point and say we want hammer forged for X dollars. So they make them for X dollars not performing the same steps they would if the product was going to have DD engraved on it. FN however, does this often. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 5:45:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? They make them in house. My DD lightweight (.625") has been incredible with just irons. I'm actually going to slap a SS10X on it next time I hit the range with some razor core and see what it does. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 7:30:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that DD barrel is beautiful, even after 1000 rds. I wish DD made a 16" S2W barrel in 5.56. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/14-5-and-16-S2W-barrels-any-plans-/382-289639/ |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 8:03:54 PM EDT
[#27]
my knights armament barrel looks like it was rifled by an indian kid using a chisel and a hammer
shoots 1moa or better though 
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Posted: 10/15/2018 8:04:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Any chance of getting a look at a kac sr15 barrel?
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:31:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance of getting a look at a kac sr15 barrel? |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:58:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Other side of the state.
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:41:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
0.75 MOA with factory FMJ. Wow. |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 8:48:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 10/18/2018 9:47:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a comparison a few years ago between a DD Lightweight 16" barrel, and a 14.5" BCM Lightweight barrel. BCM wasn't bad, but the DD was clearly better. I did 3 10-shot groups each of 3 different ammo types. I didn't allow any significant barrel cooling between individual groups of a particular ammo type. The DD turned in groups about 1/2" smaller than the BCM.Shooting some 77gr Nosler handloads, the Daniel Defense turned in the following 10-shot group sizes: 1.501", 1.199" and 1.054". So the average was 1.251". This is Nosler 77gr over H322. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1501/25236814523_b6c5b94ab7_z.jpg This is with American Eagle 50gr varmint. Prone, Bipod Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9 Scope. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1640/25863378035_116b20076f_z.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. This is Nosler 77gr over H322. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1501/25236814523_b6c5b94ab7_z.jpg This is with American Eagle 50gr varmint. Prone, Bipod Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9 Scope. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1640/25863378035_116b20076f_z.jpg |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 9:55:17 AM EDT
[#34]
The DD bore looks great. It really shows why their CL barrels have a reputation for being accurate. Thanks for sharing!
Makes you wonder about FN’s double thickness chrome lining processs... 
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Posted: 10/18/2018 10:36:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Bore lapping, before and after rifling, is a process that quality barrel manufacturers don't skip.
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Posted: 10/18/2018 10:43:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
0.75 MOA with factory FMJ. Wow. |
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Posted: 10/21/2018 6:31:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Pretty cool
I have Colt,DD, KAC barrel(SR25) and a Douglas barrel. All are more accurate than I am. |
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Posted: 10/21/2018 8:48:51 PM EDT
[#38]
DD is doing something right. The only barrels I will buy....shamelessly in the 10.3 format. Only way to go friend.
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Posted: 10/22/2018 10:43:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Try a gunpowder that fills the case. H322 and heavy bullets is about as mismatched as possible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. This is Nosler 77gr over H322. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1501/25236814523_b6c5b94ab7_z.jpg This is with American Eagle 50gr varmint. Prone, Bipod Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9 Scope. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1640/25863378035_116b20076f_z.jpg |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 7:58:10 PM EDT
[#40]
I have 3 DD barrels. One of them in 6.8
All of them are incredibly good shooters. Paid a premium for them. But very happy with the results. I have a CMMG 20" govt profile in an A2. Don't know who made it, but the 1-7" twist in it shoots 77g BTHP's very well. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 9:06:44 PM EDT
[#41]
I would be really curious to see an actual FN factory barrel.
Also, a Noveske marked FN barrel. Those are notorious for being accurate. I’m a firm believer that just because it’s “made by FN” for someone else doesn’t really say much in terms of spec or quality control. My 10.3” DD barrel tends to shoot M193 more accurately than any of my other chrome-lined barrels (BCM, KAC) |
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Posted: 10/24/2018 8:55:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's nothing. Just a few days ago a fellow here posted an inch or so 30 round group he shot at 100 yards with his SBR, Eotech, and magnifier using ball ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
0.75 MOA with factory FMJ. Wow. |
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Posted: 10/24/2018 7:09:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would be really curious to see an actual FN factory barrel. Also, a Noveske marked FN barrel. Those are notorious for being accurate. I’m a firm believer that just because it’s “made by FN” for someone else doesn’t really say much in terms of spec or quality control. My 10.3” DD barrel tends to shoot M193 more accurately than any of my other chrome-lined barrels (BCM, KAC) One thing is for sure, ever since I got my borescope, I’ve been scoping every barrel I own, and have been finding some really interesting surprises! |
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Posted: 11/10/2018 2:41:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. |
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Posted: 11/10/2018 3:28:22 AM EDT
[#45]
My understanding is all FN barrels are literally not created equal. FN makes barrels in a several grades for other companies depending on what the customer wants to pay. The faster the production rate and the lower the reject rate the cheaper the price.
In addition to DD and FN, Ruger has a CHF Machine and makes barrels for others. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 1:44:57 PM EDT
[#46]
So the “jacked up” FN barrel still does 1.25 moa?
Is that bad now? |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 7:37:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the "jacked up" FN barrel still does 1.25 moa? Is that bad now? In OP's #2 post, is that a chunk missing from the land of the Spike's barrel? |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 3:50:09 AM EDT
[#48]
FN barrels show more hairline tool marks. For years I've told people I can ID a CHF barrel's point of origin just looking at the bore with my naked eye, and I've backed it up darn near every time. That said, my FN and DD barrels both shoot great.
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Posted: 11/15/2018 3:58:47 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the price, kinda. In OP's #2 post, is that a chunk missing from the land of the Spike's barrel? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So the "jacked up" FN barrel still does 1.25 moa? Is that bad now? In OP's #2 post, is that a chunk missing from the land of the Spike's barrel? |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 9:42:10 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With Prvi 75gr match, it’s 1”@100y, and when it heats up it stays around 2”@100y. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP, how accurate is that DD lightweight barrel? I have a BCM pencil barrel, and it is dogshit for accuracy after it warms up. I'm talking, starts out as 2" then opens up to 8" at 100 yards with milsurp. But no argument from me that if you've got the budget and want the best, DD barrels are the top of the list. |
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