AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/8/2015 3:32:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon][Edited]
|
Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX: Accuracy, Velocity and Terminal Ballistics Attached File Today, we have a wider selection of quality self-defense ammunition for our AR-15s to choose from than ever before. The construction and function of these modern self-defense loads is not limited by the archaic confines proffered by the Hague Conventions and far surpasses the consistency of terminal ballistic properties of “old school” loads such as M193 and M855. There are two modern schools of thought regarding the selection of the type of projectile to use in a self-defense load; the first preferring a fragmenting, heavy (75-77 grain) OTM bullet and the second opting for an expanding “blind-to-barriers” bullet. Some top performers in the fragmenting, heavy OTM match category are Hornady’s 5.56mm 75 grain TAP T2, the Black Hills 77 grain Tipped MatchKing and the Nosler 77 grain Custom Competition. Attached File A plethora of 5.56mm/223 Remington loads utilizing expanding barrier-blind projectiles have come to the market in the last several years. Top performers in this category include the 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw found in Federals LE223T3 load and the Nosler 64 grain Bonded Solid Base bullet with “Protected Point Design” loaded in Nosler Defense Ammunition. Both of these bullets have their lead-cores bonded to their copper jackets. (Both of these bullets are also found in the 5.56mm FBI loads.) Another top performer in the expanding barrier-blind category is the Barnes 50 grain TSX bullet found in the 5.56mm Black Hills load. This is the load that is the focus of this range report. Attached File The monolithic (all copper) Barnes 50 grain TSX hollow-point bullet used in the 5.56mm Black Hills load is a proprietary design; it’s not the same 50 grain TSX projectile that is available as a reloading component. The proprietary 50 grain TSX was developed to provide better blind-to-barriers performance after passing through automobile safety glass (windshields) compared to the standard TSX projectiles. The original TSX bullets have unfortunate occurrences of the expanding petals shearing-off (or collapsing-in on themselves) when passing through auto safety glass. The proprietary 50 grain TSX has greatly improved on this situation (although the petals of the new 50 grain TSX still tend to collapse-in on themselves when passing through sheet metal barriers.) A side effect of the proprietary 50 grain TSX projectile’s ability to expand and retain its petals after passing through auto safety glass is that the velocity expansion threshold of the new projectile has risen compared to the original TSX design (from approximately 1900 FPS to approximately 2300 FPS). This is where the increased velocity of the 5.56mm load (compared to a standard 223 Remington load) proves beneficial. The new design of the proprietary 50 grain TSX, combined with the increased velocity of the 5.56mm load (along with the relatively shorter length of the 50 grain projectile) allows this load to be adequately stabilized from a wide variety of barrel twist rates and produce extremely consistent terminal ballistic properties from a wide variety of barrel lengths. The pic below shows that the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX load fired from a 10.5” barrel produces nearly the same results in bare ballistic gelatin as the load does when fired from a 20” barrel. Attached File Courtesy of Black Hills. Terminal ballistic data obtained by Dr GK Roberts in both bare gel and gel after passing through auto safety glass, when fired from a 14.5” M4 barrel, shows how wells this projectile performs. Bare gel Penetration = 14.7” Recovered diameter = 0.47” Auto safety glass Penetration = 17.0” Recovered diameter = 0.36” Being a monolithic bullet, the 50 grain TSX is actually slightly longer than a lead-core/copper-jacketed 55 grain FMJ bullet. The 50 grain TSX projectile does not have a cannelure per se, however, the case-mouth is crimped into the top relief-band of the bullet. The primers are also crimped in place. The 50 grain TSX is loaded in WCC 5.56mm brass. The round is charged with a ball powder. The lot of this ammunition that I evaluated had neither sealed primers nor sealed case-mouths, though it is reported that Black Hills will be remedying this situation in the near future. Attached File Speed is fine . . . I chronographed the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX ammunition from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel. Attached File Chronographing was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The Oehler 35P chronograph is actually two chronographs in one package that takes two separate chronograph readings for each shot and then has its onboard computer analyze the data to determine if there is any statistically significant difference between the two readings. If there is, the chronograph “flags” the shot to let you know that the data is invalid. There was no invalid data flagged during this testing. The velocity stated below is the muzzle velocity as calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. The string of fire consisted of 10 rounds over the chronograph. Attached File Attached File Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker. Attached File Atmospheric conditions Temperature: 78 degrees F Humidity: 39% Barometric pressure: 30.10 inches of Hg Elevation: 950 feet above sea level The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX ammunition fired from the 20” Colt barrel was 3419 FPS with a standard deviation of 11 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.32%! For those of you who might not be familiar with the coefficient of variation (CV), it is the standard deviation, divided by the mean (average) muzzle velocity and then multiplied by 100 and expressed as a percentage. It allows for the comparison of the uniformity of velocity between loads in different velocity spectrums; e.g. 77 grain loads running around 2,650 fps compared to 55 grain loads running around 3,250 fps. For comparison (and to give you an idea of how good the CV is for this factory loaded 50 grain TSX ammunition) the mil-spec for M193 allows for a coefficient of variation of approximately 1.2%, while one of my best 77 grain OTM hand-loads, with a muzzle velocity of 2639 PFS and a standard deviation of 4 FPS, has a coefficient of variation of 0.15%. Attached File Accuracy is final . . . I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots). The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a control group was fired from the test-rifle used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation. All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was used. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below. Attached File The Wind Probe. Attached File The test vehicle for this evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 20” stainless-steel Lothar Walther barrel. The barrel has a 223 Wylde chamber with a 1:8” twist. Prior to firing the 50 grain TSX ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing. That group had an extreme spread of 0.83”. Attached File Attached File Attached File Next, three 10-shot groups of the 50 grain TSX load were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads: 1.64” 2.09” 1.97” for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.90”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.63”. The smallest 10-shot group . . . Attached File The 30-shot composite group . . . Attached File Attached File …. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
| Thanks. Great write up. This seems to be the optimal 5.56 load for defense purposes in all barrel lengths from 7.5" to 20". One thing that I noticed is previous boxes were listed as "5.56 50 gr Barnes TSX" and new boxes "5.56 50 gr Optimized TSX." They have the same SKU number so I assume they are the same round. Thanks Molon for the info. |
Fear is the foundation of most governments.
Joined:
Nov 2009
Posts:
10531
EE: 100% (350)
TN, USA
|
Your tests are the best. Thanks for posting.
I scored some of the Black Hills 50 TSX some time ago when they first came out and shot 3 different pigs with it. Using several dozens of pigs and deer shot with 53, 55, and 70 grain TSX to set my expectations, the 50 TSX in all 3 cases did not give the expected results. All 3 ran for 75+ yards and were not recovered. I intentionally shot through lungs rather than head/neck to see how they would perform. After each one I reconfirmed zero and it was spot on. I have not hunted with the round since and I am still scratching my head at the results. To this day, they are the only 3 I have not recovered when shot with the TSX and I have recovered many lung shot right where I held with these. The 55 and 70 grain TSX are still my hunting rounds for the AR, and I only hunt 300 Blackout or 308 with TSX as well. With the gel tests posted I have to wonder if there was a bad lot that did not expand or if this is the most inconvenient of coincidences. Mine were all fired with 16" barrels. |
|
Originally Posted By Eat_Beef:
Molon, have you chronoed any from a 16" or 14.5" tube yet? From a Noveske 14.5" Afghan barrel this load had a muzzle velocity of 3171 FPS. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
Originally Posted By Blessed1:
You referenced the 64gr Nosler round in your post above. Is it in the cards to do a dedicated test on the Nosler Defense loading? Or have you done one, and I somehow missed it?  The testing is already done. I'll be posting a write-up on it as my spare time allows. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
Originally Posted By Molon:
The testing is already done. I'll be posting a write-up on it as my spare time allows. Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Blessed1:
You referenced the 64gr Nosler round in your post above. Is it in the cards to do a dedicated test on the Nosler Defense loading? Or have you done one, and I somehow missed it? The testing is already done. I'll be posting a write-up on it as my spare time allows. Thanks Molon. Look forward to it, as always.
|
|
Originally Posted By KimberZ71:
Anyone know where this ammo is in stock? I got mine from Triad Tactical. I'm pretty sure AmmoToGo has some as well. |
It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom is what it is ok. Keep that in mind at all times.
-Bill Hicks
-Bill Hicks
| Glad to see you back, Molon. Appreciate your attention to detail with this report. Have you had a chance to evaluate this from a short barrel AR yet? I was able to get some back in 2012 and did a brief review here, but it is now in the Archives. My review wasn't anywhere near as detailed as yours, so I'm interested in what your findings would be from a short barrel with this ammo. One of the issues with shooting a SBR is the reduced muzzle velocity, and the effect that has on expansion/fragmentation. This limits the useful range of a SBR, so hotter ammo is a plus here. I was surprised at how hot this was in my test. I believe my average was around 2870fps from a 10.5" barrel. My ES and SD weren't anywhere near as good as yours, so maybe BH has improved their manufacturing process. I found my accuracy was "acceptable" for my purposes (close quarters home defense), but not match accurate by any stretch. Some of this, though, was probably that my optics was a 4MOA Aimpoint Comp M2. Also was only shooting at 50yds. |
|
Originally Posted By Idahoskunk:
just curious, point of shift why, or i guess i should say from what? Originally Posted By Idahoskunk:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Great review as always Molon. I much prefer the 62 TSX. The 50 has crazy POI shift, hitting 4-6MOA high for me. just curious, point of shift why, or i guess i should say from what? My guess would be a silencer, but perhaps this diversion should be another thread. |
|
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Glad to see you back, Molon. Appreciate your attention to detail with this report. Have you had a chance to evaluate this from a short barrel AR yet? Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Glad to see you back, Molon. Appreciate your attention to detail with this report. Have you had a chance to evaluate this from a short barrel AR yet? Us lowly civilians aren't allowed to own such things in my state. Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
One of the issues with shooting a SBR is the reduced muzzle velocity, and the effect that has on expansion/fragmentation. This limits the useful range of a SBR, so hotter ammo is a plus here. With your muzzle velocity, you should still be meeting the velocity expansion threshold out to approximately 130 yards (depending upon variables). |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
Originally Posted By RyJones:
My guess would be a silencer, but perhaps this diversion should be another thread. Originally Posted By RyJones:
Originally Posted By Idahoskunk:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Great review as always Molon. I much prefer the 62 TSX. The 50 has crazy POI shift, hitting 4-6MOA high for me. just curious, point of shift why, or i guess i should say from what? My guess would be a silencer, but perhaps this diversion should be another thread. He could simply be saying that the POI shift is from whatever his "standard" load is. Barrel harmonics and recoil vectors can do strange things to the POI. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
Originally Posted By Molon:
Us lowly civilians aren't allowed to own such things in my state. With your muzzle velocity, you should still be meeting the velocity expansion threshold out to approximately 130 yards (depending upon variables). Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Glad to see you back, Molon. Appreciate your attention to detail with this report. Have you had a chance to evaluate this from a short barrel AR yet? Us lowly civilians aren't allowed to own such things in my state. Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
One of the issues with shooting a SBR is the reduced muzzle velocity, and the effect that has on expansion/fragmentation. This limits the useful range of a SBR, so hotter ammo is a plus here. With your muzzle velocity, you should still be meeting the velocity expansion threshold out to approximately 130 yards (depending upon variables). Is that for a 10.5 barrel? |
The things that kill me, make me feel alive!
The Fappening 8/31/14 -History was made!
The Fappening 8/31/14 -History was made!
|
Yes. This muzzle velocity is from an LMT 10.5" barrel.
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Is that for a 10.5 barrel? Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Glad to see you back, Molon. Appreciate your attention to detail with this report. Have you had a chance to evaluate this from a short barrel AR yet? Us lowly civilians aren't allowed to own such things in my state. Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
One of the issues with shooting a SBR is the reduced muzzle velocity, and the effect that has on expansion/fragmentation. This limits the useful range of a SBR, so hotter ammo is a plus here. With your muzzle velocity, you should still be meeting the velocity expansion threshold out to approximately 130 yards (depending upon variables). Is that for a 10.5 barrel? |
|
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Yes. This muzzle velocity is from an LMT 10.5" barrel. Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Yes. This muzzle velocity is from an LMT 10.5" barrel. Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
Glad to see you back, Molon. Appreciate your attention to detail with this report. Have you had a chance to evaluate this from a short barrel AR yet? Us lowly civilians aren't allowed to own such things in my state. Originally Posted By FAB-10_Guy:
One of the issues with shooting a SBR is the reduced muzzle velocity, and the effect that has on expansion/fragmentation. This limits the useful range of a SBR, so hotter ammo is a plus here. With your muzzle velocity, you should still be meeting the velocity expansion threshold out to approximately 130 yards (depending upon variables). Is that for a 10.5 barrel? Thanks man! I shot a yote the other night with some regular old 55gr at 50 yards and it didn't do anything to him with my lmt. I'm guessing ice pick wound... |
The things that kill me, make me feel alive!
The Fappening 8/31/14 -History was made!
The Fappening 8/31/14 -History was made!
|
Thanks man! I shot a yote the other night with some regular old 55gr at 50 yards and it didn't do anything to him with my lmt. I'm guessing ice pick wound...
Maybe you missed. 
Just busting your stones, dude.
|
Originally posted by TheHorta:
"Southern my ass. Southerners follow through and do what they say.They don't play linguistic legerdemain tricks and welch on deals because of some nebulous verbiage."
"Southern my ass. Southerners follow through and do what they say.They don't play linguistic legerdemain tricks and welch on deals because of some nebulous verbiage."
|
Originally Posted By yankee1986:
Thanks man! I shot a yote the other night with some regular old 55gr at 50 yards and it didn't do anything to him with my lmt. I'm guessing ice pick wound... Maybe you missed.
Just busting your stones, dude.
 I never miss......
 I found blood droplets on the ground just not very much. After that happened I went inside and research the maximum distance m193 will fragment out of a 10.5" and it was something like 15 yards yote was probably 40.
|
The things that kill me, make me feel alive!
The Fappening 8/31/14 -History was made!
The Fappening 8/31/14 -History was made!
|
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
I never miss......
I found blood droplets on the ground just not very much. After that happened I went inside and research the maximum distance m193 will fragment out of a 10.5" and it was something like 15 yards yote was probably 40.Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By yankee1986:
Thanks man! I shot a yote the other night with some regular old 55gr at 50 yards and it didn't do anything to him with my lmt. I'm guessing ice pick wound... Maybe you missed.
Just busting your stones, dude.
I never miss......
I found blood droplets on the ground just not very much. After that happened I went inside and research the maximum distance m193 will fragment out of a 10.5" and it was something like 15 yards yote was probably 40.Yeah I like the Mk318 and the heavier TSX rounds out of my 12.5". I have my HD mags loaded with the 50gr TSX rounds, but inside a house the short barrel shouldn't play a factor. |
Archer: Cry "Havok!" And let slip the hogs of war!
Lana: DOGS of war.......
Archer: WHATEVER FARM ANIMAL OF WAR, LANA!
Award 24/365: Most likely not to get an award.
Lana: DOGS of war.......
Archer: WHATEVER FARM ANIMAL OF WAR, LANA!
Award 24/365: Most likely not to get an award.
| excellent. I have a box of this load waiting to be tested in an M16A1 barrel. It may be the only modern defensive load suitable for a 1/12 twist. |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/
|
Originally Posted By RyJones:
My guess would be a silencer, but perhaps this diversion should be another thread. Originally Posted By RyJones:
Originally Posted By Idahoskunk:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Great review as always Molon. I much prefer the 62 TSX. The 50 has crazy POI shift, hitting 4-6MOA high for me. just curious, point of shift why, or i guess i should say from what? My guess would be a silencer, but perhaps this diversion should be another thread. I get a 3-3.5moa horizontal shift when using the BHA 50TSX in several firearms. This compares to XM193, XM855, FGMM 69 & 77gr, BHA 5.56 77 Match, PMC Bronze and X-Tac in 55gr. Keith |
|
I do not use a silencer or anything other than a birdcage. I have tried the BH 50TSX in a 18" Noveske, 16" Colt and PSA upper and a 14.7 PSA. The BH 50 TSX hits high. The POI is about 3-4" higher at 100 yards then all other loads (55 FMJ to 77 OTM). It reminds me of shooting a short barrel revolver. The lighter the bullet, the higher it hits.
And I'm not saying that there is something wrong with this excellent load. I have it loaded in a few "short range" mags. Most loads have a slight change in POI, especially going from 55 to 77gr. But the 50TSX is more pronounced for me. In the future, I will be using 62 Fusion or the 62 TSX load. Originally Posted By Keith1:
I get a 3-3.5moa horizontal shift when using the BHA 50TSX in several firearms. This compares to XM193, XM855, FGMM 69 & 77gr, BHA 5.56 77 Match, PMC Bronze and X-Tac in 55gr. Keith Originally Posted By Keith1:
Originally Posted By RyJones:
Originally Posted By Idahoskunk:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Great review as always Molon. I much prefer the 62 TSX. The 50 has crazy POI shift, hitting 4-6MOA high for me. just curious, point of shift why, or i guess i should say from what? My guess would be a silencer, but perhaps this diversion should be another thread. I get a 3-3.5moa horizontal shift when using the BHA 50TSX in several firearms. This compares to XM193, XM855, FGMM 69 & 77gr, BHA 5.56 77 Match, PMC Bronze and X-Tac in 55gr. Keith |
|
Originally Posted By Blessed1:
SO glad your back! You referenced the 64gr Nosler round in your post above. Is it in the cards to do a dedicated test on the Nosler Defense loading? Or have you done one, and I somehow missed it? As always, wonderful work above. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/688002_Range_Report___Nosler_Defense_223_Remington_64_Grain_BSB.html |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
For a "poor man's" version of the Black Hills 50 grain TSX load, some of you might want to give this a try . . .
Hornady 223 Remington 50 grain GMX "Full Boar" Hornady’s 223 Remington 50 grain “Full Boar” ammunition is loaded with the monolithic, gilding metal 50 grain GMX bullet. 
When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist, the 50 grain Full Boar load had a muzzle velocity of 3277 FPS with a standard deviation of 17 FPS. A 10-shot group of the 50 grain Full Boar load fired from a Lothar-Walther barreled semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards, had an extreme spread of 1.85”. 
.... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
Originally Posted By Molon:
For a "poor man's" version of the Black Hills 50 grain TSX load, some of you might want to give this a try . . . Hornady 223 Remington 50 grain GMX "Full Boar" Hornady’s 223 Remington 50 grain “Full Boar” ammunition is loaded with the monolithic, gilding metal 50 grain GMX bullet. https://app.box.com/shared/static/doav5cix46n51izpc67qn3823mcjjt7o.jpg When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist, the 50 grain Full Boar load had a muzzle velocity of 3277 FPS with a standard deviation of 17 FPS. A 10-shot group of the 50 grain Full Boar load fired from a Lothar-Walther barreled semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards, had an extreme spread of 1.85”. https://app.box.com/shared/static/ulm1bxzxrp54bnc1j0b60utrzx2u4ft8.jpg .... BH 50gr TSX fragged badly on my water-jug tests. The 55gr GMX held up a LOT! better, and tracked "truer". This was with a 16" gun. With a 14.5" gun, the TSX was fine. I wonder if the 50gr GMX holds together better? So far, I'm using the 62. It just holds up better. Flawless expansion and very VERY minimal fragmentation (all petals in tact, minor shards from "between" them on 10 yard water jug tests from a 16" rifle). |
|
Originally Posted By OldArmy:
Makes me wonder how well it would do on steel plate armor, given it's higher velocity than M193 and harder material... Originally Posted By OldArmy:
Originally Posted By Blain:
Wow, 3,400 fps out of a 20" AR barrel is SMOKING fast, even for a 50 grain projectile. Makes me wonder how well it would do on steel plate armor, given it's higher velocity than M193 and harder material... There is a reason the .224" 45gr spire point bronze projectile was quietly removed from Barnes line of reloading components...just saying... |
|
Originally Posted By Molon: Any results? ,,, Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By MRW: excellent. I have a box of this load waiting to be tested in an M16A1 barrel. Any results? ,,, Hmm.. I'm on spring break this week... |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/
General education should not be mere job training, but training of the mind to reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/
|
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
BH 50gr TSX fragged badly on my water-jug tests. Water jugs are not the scientific standard for terminal ballistic testing. When shot into properly prepared and validated 10% ordnance gelatin, the Black Hills 50 grain TSX projectiles do not "frag badly." 
.... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
|
Originally Posted By home_alone1:
How would these do in a 10.00 barrel with a 1/12 twist . I'm building a SBR and going 1/12 on the barrel and am planning on using it for hogs and work as a patrol carbine. Why the 1/12 twist barrel? A 1/7 or 1/8 twist would leave your bullet choice much broader |
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
|
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Why the 1/12 twist barrel? A 1/7 or 1/8 twist would leave your bullet choice much broader Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By home_alone1:
How would these do in a 10.00 barrel with a 1/12 twist . I'm building a SBR and going 1/12 on the barrel and am planning on using it for hogs and work as a patrol carbine. Why the 1/12 twist barrel? A 1/7 or 1/8 twist would leave your bullet choice much broader It's a retro build colt 609 to be exact . I'm just looking for a modern bullet design that will work well with the antiquated barrel twist.
|
|
Monolithic copper bullets are all long for the weight.
50 gr TSX may or may not be accurate with such a slow twist rate. It would be worth trying a box. But I suspect you'll need to stick with conventional bullets. |
"If Jesus had a gun he'd be alive today." - Homer Simpson
|
Originally Posted By home_alone1:
It's a retro build colt 609 to be exact . I'm just looking for a modern bullet design that will work well with the antiquated barrel twist.Originally Posted By home_alone1:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By home_alone1:
How would these do in a 10.00 barrel with a 1/12 twist . I'm building a SBR and going 1/12 on the barrel and am planning on using it for hogs and work as a patrol carbine. Why the 1/12 twist barrel? A 1/7 or 1/8 twist would leave your bullet choice much broader It's a retro build colt 609 to be exact . I'm just looking for a modern bullet design that will work well with the antiquated barrel twist.That makes sense, you could always go with a lightweight profile 1/7 barrel |
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
|
Originally Posted By Burnsy87:
Yeah I like the Mk318 and the heavier TSX rounds out of my 12.5". I have my HD mags loaded with the 50gr TSX rounds, but inside a house the short barrel shouldn't play a factor. Originally Posted By Burnsy87:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By yankee1986:
Thanks man! I shot a yote the other night with some regular old 55gr at 50 yards and it didn't do anything to him with my lmt. I'm guessing ice pick wound... Maybe you missed.
Just busting your stones, dude.
I never miss......
I found blood droplets on the ground just not very much. After that happened I went inside and research the maximum distance m193 will fragment out of a 10.5" and it was something like 15 yards yote was probably 40.Yeah I like the Mk318 and the heavier TSX rounds out of my 12.5". I have my HD mags loaded with the 50gr TSX rounds, but inside a house the short barrel shouldn't play a factor. I would treat yotes as varmints and not assume M193 will work the same with them. I'm not one to be all uppity about hunting, but that seemed like not a good idea to me to use FMJ on coyotes. And assuming it didn't work as it should because it didn't kill is a bit of a reach. Now I do know that there was a guy who used to use it (M193, Winchester Q3131A to be exact) for pigs and it always worked. But I've heard they're a bit tougher, or denser, so to speak. |
AR Sponsor