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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
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Posted: 6/30/2018 12:01:49 AM EDT
What's the best current red-dot/reflex sight option out there for an astigmatism? Price is not a primary concern.
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 12:57:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Acog
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 1:19:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Acog
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 1:38:02 AM EDT
[#3]
EoTech worked best for my astigmatism.  However, with an Aimpoint T1 I can manage just fine with glasses.
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 1:50:37 AM EDT
[#4]
It’s very subjective. With my astigmatism, the best looking and most crisp RDS is the post 89k serial number MRO. Aimpoint is terrible for me. 2nd best was EOTech but still nowhere as crisp as the newer MRO. YMWV
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 1:55:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Astigmatism here.. I have better luck with prism optics, I understand you said reflex sight but some of the prism reticles vary from simple like a red dot to rangeing like the ACOG. Even have 1x magnification.
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 2:17:20 AM EDT
[#6]
I have had luck with the MRO
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 7:54:36 AM EDT
[#7]
With my astigmatism I get two distinct overlapping dots.    At 100 yds I can get about 100% within the six inch circle.   Not sure if it’s the ammo or me or my eyes but I would not trust shots much beyond that.    I personally find that the rds with the circle surrounding the dot are better.
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 9:40:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
What's the best current red-dot/reflex sight option out there for an astigmatism? Price is not a primary concern.
View Quote
A 1x prism
Link Posted: 6/30/2018 6:37:48 PM EDT
[#9]
What's the sight going to be used for and on? I have a pretty bad astigmatism, but most red dots don't bother me as they're not meant for accurate and precise long-range shooting. Good replacements for a red dot would be mainly an Eotech or a low magnification prism such as the 1x prism by Primary Arms or the 1.5x ACOGs that are available.
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 12:46:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What's the sight going to be used for and on? I have a pretty bad astigmatism, but most red dots don't bother me as they're not meant for accurate and precise long-range shooting. Good replacements for a red dot would be mainly an Eotech or a low magnification prism such as the 1x prism by Primary Arms or the 1.5x ACOGs that are available.
View Quote
It will be on an AR carbine and used up to 150 yard engagements. My dot in my Sig Romeo5 appears to be a v-shaped reticle and my Trijicon MRO and RMR06 dot appear to be a horizontal dashes if this helps at all. I have been researching the Trijicon TA44 ACSS but am not quite sold on it yet (seems to be a lot of $ for little magnification). What prismatic 1x optics do you recommend as I am leaning more towards that?
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 1:47:06 AM EDT
[#11]
I have really bad astigmatism and have tried many red dots over the years. the only things that are perfect to my eyes are the vortex spitfire 1x prism optic and my mepro M21 with the triangle reticle. I now have new glasses that correct my astigmatism so my aimpoints and primary arms, C-more and my matchdot red dots work as long as I am wearing them. have you gone to the eye doc? mine let me bring in a red dot and had me hold it out in front of the lens thing you look through and she dialed in different lenses until we found one that worked for me. but I will say that my mepro is on my HD rifle so I don't have to grab my glasses in the middle of the night.
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 2:22:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It will be on an AR carbine and used up to 150 yard engagements. My dot in my Sig Romeo5 appears to be a v-shaped reticle and my Trijicon MRO and RMR06 dot appear to be a horizontal dashes if this helps at all. I have been researching the Trijicon TA44 ACSS but am not quite sold on it yet (seems to be a lot of $ for little magnification). What prismatic 1x optics do you recommend as I am leaning more towards that?
View Quote
Primary Arms is coming out with one pretty damn soon. Good price, and a good looking scope. I haven't tried it myself, but it's on my list of soon to buys.
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 2:48:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
What's the best current red-dot/reflex sight option out there for an astigmatism? Price is not a primary concern.
View Quote
There's been lots of talk about this over the years and Tomac (in case anyone wants to @ him for more details later) and I have played around with a lot of different optics.  They all have pros and cons really.

-Prismatic sights are the best as you can focus the diopter to your vision.  That said, you're essentially looking through the rear half of a scope so eye positioning is important.  Eyebox size differs with each model, but the general point still matters.  They'll have some parallax inside 50-75 yards or so, but it depends on the model really.  The mini acogs are pretty nice as well, but same deal with some parallax.  All will have an etched reticle which will work if battery/other illumination isn't working.  It's why they're so sharp, because you aren't looking at a projection, instead its etched like a regular scope reticle.

-Holographic reflex sights like the Eotech or Vortex UH-1.  Hit and miss really since everyone sees the laser 'hologram' differently.  Some people don't get a flare/comma/whatever with the reticle, others do.  Minimal/no parallax.

-Tritium/Fiber Optic sights like the Trijicon Reflex and Meprolight M21.  Tritium powers the sight in low/no light conditions, fiber optics work great in dim to light and bright.  Minimal/no parallax.  Bigger reticles, depending on lighting conditions you may need supplemental light or other accessories (which are on the market) but incredibly rugged, zero batteries or electronics, and because of how they work, are minimal/no distortion.  There is a blue cast to the lenses as it contrasts with the yellow reflected reticle.  When shooting from shade to a bright area, you can get reticle washout (hence supplemental battery powered light or polarizing filter) but it can be worked around pretty easily.

Personally, I use a Meprolight M21 bullseye as my 'oh shit' optic for a few different reasons.  Namely that the reticle is still sharp without my glasses on, it isn't battery reliant which is important as Alaskan cold eats batteries, and it's durable as hell.  While the 4.5 moa center dot on the bullseye isn't tiny, it does mean that inside of 400 yards if I can put the dot on it, I can hit it even without my glasses.  Or for 'bump in the night' grabbing if I don't have time or can't find my glasses in a hurry.  I'm not blind though and can still target ID.  Things are just slightly blurry without them, plus my astigmatism isn't corrected.

Link Posted: 7/1/2018 7:57:28 AM EDT
[#14]
^^^ Excellent post.  Astig here.

I would only add one little thing to the etched vs. projected part.  If you go with a non-etched reticle, don't let other people lock you into "must have dot all the way forward because OMG field-of-view, situational awareness blah."

I've shot for decades both eyes open or closing off one eye as needed for a deliberate shot; it is something that can be trained.  Depending on your astig you may benefit by experimenting with how is the dot's clarity a slot (or 2 or 3) rearward?  The only thing that matters ultimately is that you see what you need to see. See a rifle with a dot at the range?  Ask them if you can pick it up & look through it.  Try as many as possible. Don't be surprised if the solution ends up being one of those "pay once cry once" things.
Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 10:03:29 AM EDT
[#15]
My aimpoints  look like the biohazard symbol if am too close.  Arfcom learned me to mount them as far from my eye as possible.   It worked.  Mine are on LaRue mounts pushed forward.  One is even the cantilever forward mount.
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 11:26:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Prismatic

Vortex,Primary Arms, Bushnell

for my astigmatism the smaller and crisper the dot,the lesser the brightness, and the closer to my eye the scope is... the less distortion..
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 1:38:50 PM EDT
[#17]
It may not apply to everyone, but I'm developing a strong theory that reticle shape has more to do with astigmatism than people think.

My astigmatism is bad enough that even on a prism optic I get burst. This only happens with red and not green though.
Link Posted: 7/1/2018 7:44:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It may not apply to everyone, but I'm developing a strong theory that reticle shape has more to do with astigmatism than people think.

My astigmatism is bad enough that even on a prism optic I get burst. This only happens with red and not green though.
View Quote
Astigmatism has a few different 'kinds' but it's basically a refraction error in your eyes.  The brighter something is, the higher odds of it being more noticeably 'blurred' because the light isn't ending up where it should inside of your eye.  Think of it like POA vs POI.  Vision without astigmatism is dead nuts on.  With astigmatism, you're getting more of a shotgun pattern.  Same POA, but the POI can be drifted due to wind or whatever.  (Mind you, that's an incredibly dumbed down version of it, but it's ballparked)

If memory serves, your eyes are more sensitive to green than red, so it takes less light output from something green to be noticed, than for something red.  So even if they look the same brightness, the red is at a higher output because your eyes aren't as sensitive to it.  More light = more blurry.
Link Posted: 7/4/2018 4:50:04 PM EDT
[#19]
For rifles, if you have room to mount a rear peep sight with a small peep hole 1/16" or less, and co-witness with the dot, most distortion will go away.  As others have already said, the smaller the dot and the lowest brightness setting will also help.  An alternative to BUIS which won't help you on handguns, is to create a stick on peep for your shooting glasses like this.

Get some opaque cling film or a very thin rubber sheet that is tacky enough to stick on glasses.  Cut a piece into a circle around 1/2-3/4", and then punch or drill a tiny 1/16" hole in the middle.  Stick it on your prescription or shooting glasses in the best location for your dominant eye.  This will get rid of almost all distortion on most red dot sights.  I've tested it on Aimpoint Micro, Comp C3, and M4, C-More, Trijicon mini Acog and MRO, Sig Romeo 5, and even the cheapest primary arms and bushnell dot sights.  I haven't found a red dot that didn't look almost perfect using this actually.  You can even see your front and rear iron sights on handguns, as well as the target with clarity.  May not be useful for tactical or self-defense situations, but for target shooting it's essential!
Link Posted: 7/4/2018 5:24:39 PM EDT
[#20]
For the benefits of a red dot, the fiber optic illuminated red dots like the meprolight work well like Northpolar mentioned.

Also thanks to him... I have "Atom Bomb Baby" stuck in my head on loop...
Link Posted: 7/4/2018 5:29:58 PM EDT
[#21]
1x prism would be best.

Holosun with acss reticle is the only real red dot my eyes can work with.
Link Posted: 7/4/2018 7:45:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For the benefits of a red dot, the fiber optic illuminated red dots like the meprolight work well like Northpolar mentioned.

Also thanks to him... I have "Atom Bomb Baby" stuck in my head on loop...
View Quote
Link Posted: 7/4/2018 7:48:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For rifles, if you have room to mount a rear peep sight with a small peep hole 1/16" or less, and co-witness with the dot, most distortion will go away.  As others have already said, the smaller the dot and the lowest brightness setting will also help.  An alternative to BUIS which won't help you on handguns, is to create a stick on peep for your shooting glasses like this.

Get some opaque cling film or a very thin rubber sheet that is tacky enough to stick on glasses.  Cut a piece into a circle around 1/2-3/4", and then punch or drill a tiny 1/16" hole in the middle.  Stick it on your prescription or shooting glasses in the best location for your dominant eye.  This will get rid of almost all distortion on most red dot sights.  I've tested it on Aimpoint Micro, Comp C3, and M4, C-More, Trijicon mini Acog and MRO, Sig Romeo 5, and even the cheapest primary arms and bushnell dot sights.  I haven't found a red dot that didn't look almost perfect using this actually.  You can even see your front and rear iron sights on handguns, as well as the target with clarity.  May not be useful for tactical or self-defense situations, but for target shooting it's essential!
View Quote
This is a great trick, but can be time consuming.  It's similar (albeit more specific) to having a cowitness on your red dot as your eye is forced to focus through a smaller space with extra light being restricted.  If that makes sense.

In an 'oh shit' scenario there's not really time to use the flip down/stick on/whatever apertures, but a good set of cowitnessed irons CAN help.  Speaking of which, I need to find a set to try on the meprolight at some point.
Link Posted: 7/4/2018 7:49:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Mine is VERY slight and only in my right eye, but it's enough to make a number of red dots a tad fuzzy. EOTech works best for me, looks exactly the same to the right eye as the left, zero fuzz.
Link Posted: 7/5/2018 4:23:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It may not apply to everyone, but I'm developing a strong theory that reticle shape has more to do with astigmatism than people think.

My astigmatism is bad enough that even on a prism optic I get burst. This only happens with red and not green though.
View Quote
I'm starting to think that this may be my problem from my other topic that I have in this forum about the new Vortex AR that I got. I just could not get it to adjust right and so they are checking it tout now for me to see if it is the scope. My other Vortex prisms don't do that, but they are the older style. Don't know if that matters or not.
But I am starting to think that whatever they changed in the new AR version just might not square up right with my super screwed eyes. Because no matter how I adjust it it's still fuzzy.
Won't really know until I get it back though.
Link Posted: 7/6/2018 10:38:10 AM EDT
[#26]
I've had astigmatism for years & it has actually gotten worse lately.  I have a Burris MTAC 1-4 on my duty rifle and a new model Vortex Spitfire on my pig gun.  This was after finding that no reflex sight worked for me; simple dots looked like a cluster of grapes &  circle dots were oblong moving ovals.

Along with astigmatism, I've apparently developed cataracts; I'm scheduled for surgery next week.  The doctor says I'll still need glasses but both my nearsightedness & astigmatism will be much better.  I'm wondering if I might be able to put a real live RDS on my next gun.  And maybe people will quit treating me like a second class citizen just because I don't have mainstream sights.
Link Posted: 7/6/2018 4:08:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's very subjective. With my astigmatism, the best looking and most crisp RDS is the post 89k serial number MRO. Aimpoint is terrible for me. 2nd best was EOTech but still nowhere as crisp as the newer MRO. YMWV
View Quote
I'm a bit opposite: Aimpoint > MRO > Eotech.  
So as stated, its very subjective.  I would try and test them out out if possible.
Link Posted: 7/6/2018 4:10:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 7/9/2018 8:59:56 PM EDT
[#29]
I guess Primary arms has a 1x prism with an etched reticle coming out this month sometime. I think I'll keep an eye out for that!
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 2:05:57 AM EDT
[#30]
I have an astigmatism.   For me the best sight is either a DI Optical eg1c or holosun with a circle reticle, they are better than an aimpoint or eotech.

Edit:  at anything farther than 25 yards or so an eotech looks just as good to me.  At home defense distances it looks terrible to my eyes.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 11:40:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Tell me more about the DI optical.
Is the retical viewable without power?
I am thinking about the FC1. But yours is the same.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 1:42:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Tell me more about the DI optical.
Is the retical viewable without power?
I am thinking about the FC1. But yours is the same.
View Quote
Not viewable without power.

Pros: seem durable and well built
Milspec rating from a military contractor
Reasonably priced from some vendors.
The fit and finish is as good as ive ever seen.  (For example the crossbolt fits a rail perfectly with little/no back and forth movement)

Cons: short warranty
Questionable customer service and warranty support (based on what I read, I should say the one time i reached out to customer support with a question they responded via Facebook within 24-48 hours)

My overall impression is that the south korean optics/ products are good but the US importer is a mess, just look at their website, it is so sloppy with tons of incomplete areas.

You can get most of their optics cheap on eBay direct from authorized dealers.  I was able to pickup a DI EG1C and a RV2 with a Qd mount for $360 shipped.  It was a steal.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 5:03:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Thank you, Sir.
Link Posted: 7/11/2018 6:31:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Bad astigmatism here.  MRO and every aimpoint I have tried looks like a commet.

Acog and eotech = no issues (for me)

Rmr = no issues (green triangle, fiber optic and tritium, no battery)
Vortex viper = comet, but it's going on my shotgun so no worries
Link Posted: 7/11/2018 9:32:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
What's the best current red-dot/reflex sight option out there for an astigmatism? Price is not a primary concern.
View Quote
Trijicon MRO or SRS.

I have an astigmatism and I have ran both. I also ran a MARS LE reflex but its $1500+ price tag will be a bit much for a lot of folks.

I have also ran multiple Elcan Specter DRs and about 11 Acogs while active duty military. All of these optics worked just fine.

I had a little issue with the Sig Bravo 4 but thats a fixed 4 power. The TA31s no issues, weird. Great FOV though.

Link Posted: 7/20/2018 6:04:06 PM EDT
[#36]
ive had perfect vision my whole life, im under 30 and I just got my first optic. it was the holosun 503 with the ACSS reticle. for the life of me, I could never focus and see the reticle clear no matter what tricks I tried. I have sent it back, hoping I just got a bad one, but now part of me is thinking I may have an astigmatism. im holding off on the doctor visit till I can try another one out but we'll see.

great info in this thread though! cheers!
Link Posted: 7/20/2018 7:52:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ive had perfect vision my whole life, im under 30 and I just got my first optic. it was the holosun 503 with the ACSS reticle. for the life of me, I could never focus and see the reticle clear no matter what tricks I tried. I have sent it back, hoping I just got a bad one, but now part of me is thinking I may have an astigmatism. im holding off on the doctor visit till I can try another one out but we'll see.

great info in this thread though! cheers!
View Quote
You can do that test by rotating the optic and seeing if the deformation in the reticle moves with the optic. That will tell you that the optic is broken not you.
Link Posted: 7/20/2018 10:20:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You can do that test by rotating the optic and seeing if the deformation in the reticle moves with the optic. That will tell you that the optic is broken not you.
View Quote
good looks man, i'll keep that in mind when I get the replacement back.
Link Posted: 7/21/2018 4:10:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Vortex Spitfire.  I find the etched reticle even when illuminated, works better with my astigmatism that any red dot.  And, when the battery dies, you still have a reticle to aim with.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 3:17:31 PM EDT
[#40]
go look thru a few prism sights.

Include ones with green reticle.

For me, green works - red doesn't.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 3:29:36 PM EDT
[#41]
I’ve had a few different Aimpoints over the years including h1, t1, comp m3, comp m4s, and pro. They all looked like huge bursts of red. Fine for out to about 50 yards but after that became unbearable.

Picked up an Eotech exps3-0 a few weeks ago on a whim and it’s awesome. The center dot is nice and crisp the outter ring looks a little fuzzy but not horrible.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 11:12:26 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm all about Prism optics, ACOG's, Primary Arms prisms 3x, and now their 1x

Here's the 1x
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