Hi Group, I have watched a few hours of cleaning and lubrication videos. Well, I'm doing my first AR build so I watched a few vids on cleaning and lubing. I specifically centered on the BCG. I have seen guys use lithium grease, moly grease (usually about 5% MoS2) in the 10.2 OZ cartridge to hi-temp wheel bearing grease to the exotic $4 per Oz. stuff.Now, being a techno nerd I am aware of the capabilities and limitations of most lubrication products. Also, I am quite familiar with Molybdenum Disulfide. Its distinct characteristic is that it literally embeds itself between the molecules of metal, in my case the BCG is phosphated steel. If any of you are familiar with the REAL stuff  (the moly paste  approximately is 70% molybdenum disulfide)  it does not wash off. It literally embeds itself into your skin until those skin layers wear away. My little 4 oz jar set me back $40 but a little goes a very very long way. Its recommended temperature range is -20*F to 750*F. It sticks and stays put, it does not attracts dirt as it is basically a dry lube and it is slicker than snail snot but have yet to see it even mentioned as a gun lube in a grease application. ANY petroleum based grease is nearly stone age compared to moly D.

Per Loctite - Moly Paste (formerly C-670) contains 65%
molybdenum disulfide for maximum lubricity. It is a heavy,
black paste with unsurpassed lubricating qualities. Moly Paste
reduces friction on threaded fasteners - bolts, nuts, studs - the
low and uniform friction coefficient of 0.06 (torque coefficient, k,
of 0.11) creates reliable assembly conditions. Lubricant stays
in place through heat, load and vibration to insure trouble-free
disassembly from -29 to 399ºC (-20 to +750ºF).
 Any thoughts on using as a lube for the BCG? Thanks, Marty

Sounds like machine gunners lube.  Will work fine.  It's an AR, pretty much anything will work.

I can't find the link right now but there is a video out there with George Fennel, a very experienced and well trusted lubrication engineer for the Weapon shield brand talking about using Mos2 on firearms. He clearly describes how Mos2 is about the worst thing you could ever lube a firearm with. The pressures and heat inside a firearm can cause the Mos2 to turn into Mos3 which is horrible for metal. In the automotive and commercial industries, Mos2 is used in such a low amount that it is measured at the Parts Per Million scale and even at that, it is never used on high speed or high heat applications such as wheel bearings.

Needless to say, I have never tried it and never would. There are plenty of high tech lubricants out there if you really want to try them. Archoil is one of the companies that comes to mind, you may want to check them out. They do not use Mos2 in anything last I checked.

Moly 2 is fine. George Fennell, degree listed in astronomy

Slip 2000 EWL is all you need. Seriously. You would think that grease, which sticks to the bcg longer, would be better... but what happens is that if you put a lot of rounds through, you get carbon fouling mixing with the already thick grease and it turns into an even thicker paste that increase viscous friction enough to cause a malfunction.

Whereas a more liquidy (viscous) lube like Slip 2000 will not turn into a thick paste, and will actually wash away some of the carbon fouling as you reapply lube. This means you can go 10k rounds without cleaning if all you did was add oil in there every 500-1000 rounds, whereas with grease you can't do that.

If you only shoot a couple hundred rounds between cleaning then sure you could get away with using butter or chapstick for all I know. I'm just saying that for serious use, something like Slip 2000 EWL is good. If you insist on using grease anyway, I would apply it only to the rail contacts and then still put Slip 2000 EWL on there and the other spots and from then on until the next cleaning.

I've been using Mobil 1 for about 10 or 12 years now.  No issues with it.

I'm an over luber.  I don't care if the excess runs, drips, blows off the bolt/carrier, I just make sure I get oil all over/in it before putting it back in the upper.  I put a few drops in the upper, too.

Op, you've already started to overthink it. Regular old clp has been working fine.

Slip 2000 and Slip EWL are good alternatives if you want to go a less toxic route.

$40 would buy you a couple windex sized bottles of clp, which would last you for years.

Grease or dry lube are not the best for the AR. By using grease or dry lube, there is no mechanism to flush out all the carbon. With the DI gas system, you're getting a lot of carbon blasting into the BCG. With oil or CLP, the carbon is caught and flushed away. The only thing with this, is that it needs to be reapplied after it all flushes away. If you don't flush away the carbon, you'll start to see things wearing sooner, and carbon will build up much quicker. Sure, those greases and dry lubes have great lubricating properties, but the key to the AR is to flush all the carbon away, in addition to lubrication.

If you're just going to the range once in a while, and you clean your gun after every trip. It really doesn't matter. But you'll definitely see a difference if you shoot a lot of rounds or take a day-long class.

Wheel bearing grease, synthetic if you want to get spendy.  $10 a tub should last you a lifetime.

Designer lubes are are best left to the bedroom.

Mobil 1 full synthetic has been my goto since 2008.
I also use Slip 2000 EWL.

Run it wet.

Is this something either of you have actually experienced directly when using grease, or are you just repeating what you heard somewhere? I run grease exclusively in my ARs (Super Lube, CV2, CherryBalmz, etc.) and that isn't my experience at all. I've been known to go 2,000+ rounds between lube applications (much less cleaning) in an unsuppressed gun, and have no doubt I could go much higher. When shooting suppressed, I'll add grease every 300-500 rounds or so, simply because even grease gets burned off, dried out, and overwhelmed when shooting suppressed. A little fresh grease and things smooth out again.

This is what a 100% grease lubricated gun looks like after 2,000 rounds without cleaning or reapplication of lube (approx. 1750 rounds unsuppressed and 250 rounds suppressed):






If you notice, despite the heavy carbon build up, the friction contact areas have remained clean and the weapon would continue to function. Unlike oil - which can migrate contamination into areas you don't want - grease acts as a barrier and keeps the friction surfaces clean, even after high round counts. You can clearly see this "barrier effect" at work, where the grease has kept the rails on up into CH channel remarkably clean (with lubricant that is even still wet in the upper channel). Try getting oil to do that after 2,000+ rounds.

Now, that's not to say that grease is always the best choice for every environment, or that oil has no place in firearms lubrication. Rather, I take issue with the suggestion that grease is never a good choice for AR lubrication. That is flat out wrong. While either grease or oil will work for most people, in my experience, grease allows much longer intervals between lube reapplication (which can be a very useful property for hard use).

Problems start to appear with grease when people use it incorrectly, selecting the wrong viscosity and/or temp range for their environment. For example, using an old-fashioned heavy wheel bearing grease in below freezing temps probably isn't a good idea. Used properly, grease is a fantastic lubricant, and in many ways superior to oil. As far as using a high moly percentage paste as a lube, I have no experience with that, so I couldn't really say.

And if you think the gun is filthy in those pictures, you should see it now with 1,500 rounds of 100% suppressed shooting.

I've been using TW25b for a few years now and I never experienced any sort of failure. I'm totally hooked on the milcomm products and use their cleaner, oil, and grease.

I think one of the issues people face with grease is that they simply don't know how to use it or where to apply it. I come from a background of garand and m1a, so I'm typically applying grease only to the moving mechanism and never in areas not needed. With that said, you only need to grease or lube 6 areas of the bcg and these areas are very small compared to the overall space available. It's very easy to over apply or even pick up excessive amount of grease. You only need so little that a 1.5 oz tube could last you years if you're smart about how you apply it.

I recommend using an applicator or some such like a q-tip or those swab its that you can reuse.

For the Mobil 1 synthetic, what weight do you guys use? Would 10w30 suffice??

Astronomy? Maybe correct for undergrad. He went on to earn a Masters in snake oil.

At first glance, one would think his products are truly unrivaled. He talks a big game and has the “tests” to back it up. The problem is, those tests are about as scientific as shaking a loaded round to conclude whether the powder charge is a little light

While there may be a few exceptions, lube is lube. Use enough of it. Apply it correctly. You’ll be gtg.

We all have our favorites. For me, it’s Slip EWL. I’ve used it for years. It’s never given me problems.

Admittedly, I go through cycles of researching different options. But, I always end up deciding to stick with what I’ve got. The reason being, in a pure “click-bang” sense, I can’t really make my firearms any more reliable.

Now, if you want to get into corrosion resistance and cleaning attributes, that’s a more meaningful conversation. There are legitimate and quantifiable differences between lubes in each of those regards. Particularly with corrosion resistance.

Don't over think it.

I've used FP10, various Slip products, Break Free CLP, Militec, and a few products I've forgotten about. All of them do the job just fine. I don't use grease on AR15s. No need. Just use oil and plenty of it.

@krdt Thanks for the reply.

I never said that you shouldn't use grease, I just said it isn't the best option. Grease works very well as a lube, but even you see that carbon builds up very easily. Carbon buildup can cause malfunctions. I'm not saying that your gun will definitely malfunction, but it certainly has the potential to clog some things up.

You're right that grease stays in place much better than oil, and that you don't need to reapply it as often. But reapplying oil is much easier than reapplying grease. Just pop out the BCG, spray it down, g2g.

I have used grease for the first two years of owning my AR, and I never had any issues with malfunctions or anything. I just noticed a good amount of carbon building up in the BCG and inside the upper. Once I switched to oil, I have noticed a significantly cleaner gun. It really does a great job of flushing everything out.

Both will work great if you know how to apply it. Knowing where to apply lube is MUCH more important than what you actually use. I just prefer how the oil flushes everything out of the BCG.

And that's what I take issue with. I mean... obviously, I disagree; I wouldn't voluntarily use something I felt was inferior. Used correctly, I'd argue grease is superior to oil. Now, most shooters do not go 2,000 or more rounds between cleanings. That grease can do so effectively - especially without reapplication - probably isn't going to benefit the average AR owner. Hell, a large portion of AR owners don't shoot 2,000 rounds in a year through a single gun. Still, that it can do so - while remaining completely reliable - I think speaks for itself insofar as whether grease is a viable, or arguable superior, lubricant. That's the only point I'm making.

You might find the following reading interesting:
https://www.cherrybalmz.com/educate-yourself

https://www.cherrybalmz.com/differences-in-lubricants

While I'm not going to necessarily endorse some of the more sensational claims made by Cherrybalmz, I do feel they make a very sound case for the use of grease - most of which is reinforced by my own experience. They also do a good job of dispelling some of the myths surrounding its use. I was using Super Lube long before CB introduced their line of light grease products, but it was refreshing to finally hear someone echo my own sentiments and provide clear reasoning for some of the theories on grease I'd developed simply by using it.

Let's be clear, either grease or oil is going to serve most people just fine. It's not as if one is vastly superior to the other; I just find it a little irksome when people suggest it's a poor choice compared to oil. When used correctly, I believe the exact opposite is true.

Be that as it may, he was right-on about all these "bio lubes" from companies that love to sue people, gumming up and polymerizing. Gotta give him credit where it's due, he hasn't ever steered anyone wrong...

I mixed some left over engine assembly lube with some gun oil and 3-1.............. humans complicate everything......

I just use CLP and have never had any issues. I'm not a high volume shooter though and clean my guns after every outing. I run the gun so wet it gets blown all over the first couple rounds.

I still have a couple quarts of LSA that I use. Works good for me but then I don't put a whole lot of rounds through my guns before a cleaning. When I hit the range mostly it is practicing my CMP and NRA Hi-Power 3 position stuff. I do have a bunch of Wolf plinking ammo that I'll hammer steel plates with every now and then like they are out to get me, still no problems......

Been using it since the 90s.

Don't over think it.  Use something that provides for some kind of lubrication.  Me and a buddy went to an out of the way range one time and I forgot my cleaning stuff.  I had also apparently forgot to lubricate when I last cleaned my rifle so the gun was running a bit sluggish.  Not having any gun oil I pulled my tube of chapstick out and took a chunk off the top of the stick and used that to lubricate the cam pin channel, bolt and bolt to receiver friction surfaces.  Gun ran fine for 500 rounds that day.

yes

This is the way.

No. Spit works fine.