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Ammunition review - Wolf M193/Prvi Partizan M193 (Page 5 of 6)
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Has anyone tried out the 2007 headstamp being sold at Widener's? They claim the old (2006 or before) was single base powder, and that the 2007 is double base and now works flawlessly. This would explain people's problems with the older stuff (which this thread concerns) So, what is the story on the "new" M193 from Prvi Partisan? |
I just got 2k of this, i'll post a report after this weekend. |
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Tried the Prvi m193 today. Limited use due to time constraints, weather and indoor range. I only fired about 60 rounds of this today, along with 30 rounds of Wolf 75gr, and 40 rounds of S&B 55gr fmj. All firing was done through one of my "Franken AR" carbines. (16" Wilson Stainless HBAR Barrel 1:9 twist, on a CMT flat top, attached to a Spike's Tactical lower, using Magpul Pmags (dated 06/07).) No failures to feed, fire, eject, or lock back on last round. Seemed slightly more accurate and hotter than the S&B, But this is subjective at 25 yards. Though I was able to keep 28 out of 30 rounds from one mag inside of a 1" square while informal resting on a bench. The two "flyers" were still touching the outer edges of the same square and were less than stellar examples of disciplined marksmanship (I was kinda quick on the trigger). Clean up was not bad at all. If the rest of the 500 I bought are as accurate, reliable, and clean as this first sampling I will definitely buy them again in the future. I'll hopefully get out to the outdoor range in the next week or two. |
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Bought 2K of this last week and shot about 100 rounds over the weekend through two Bushmasters, one with 14.5" M4 barrel & H buffer and the other with 20" A2 barrel. No jams, no malfunctions of any kind. Accuracy wasn't spectacular but not bad at all. I'd say about on par with XM193. Recoiled a bit less than XM193 which helped follow-up shots. Rounds grouped about 2" higher at 200 yards compared to XM193. Burned cleaner than XM193 in my opinion. Left bits of red sealants in the face of the bolt. Definitely a good XM193 replacement IMHO. |
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Shot approx. 100rds of Wolf M193 PP. Seemed to work excellent in a Colt 6520. In my 20" A2 clone with chrome lined 1/7 barrel, every round short stroked. Seemed underpower but fairly accurate. Will not buy anymore. I read replies stating that this stuff was fine for them out of 20" barrels. Sounds like there are quite a few bad lots of PP M193 so I won't trust buying... |
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The new stuff is different. I shot two mags thru two DOD Police loaner M16A1's with perfect function. The older stuff proabally would not have. It appears current production has the double base propellant. |
Go to draftfredthompson.com and sign the petition.
For me, trying to determine the difference between newer and older stuff is my reason for not buying again. I am sure the newer stuff is better, but trying to remember what lot number is good or risking internet order (hoping to get the good stuff) is not worth it if I end up with the same short stroking ammo.... |
How can you tell the old stuff from the new stuff? Besides some 20" rifles short stroking. The reason I'm interested is I have a case from MidwayUSA due soon. Thanks |
Worf: No! Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects. (dreamily) And claw at you.
| This is the stuff my carbine likes,2" groups at 100 yards with A2 sights. Thats pretty good for my tired eyes. Functions well,no failures of any kind through 6 magazines. I'd have experimented more but I only had 6 mags to check out and at todays prices I need to be stingy. That sucks, but the Wolf/PP M193 don't. |
| I picked up a box at the local gun store last week, head stamped 07. Pulled one bullet to check powder and found a fine ball powder. There was no appearant bullet sealant but the primer has the heavy red sealent. I'll test this box through my 20" rifles and edit this post with results. I paid $9.00 for this 20 rnd box but only bought one to test out before looking for a better deal on the web if they function alright. |
Anything headstamped 07 is new double base powder to M193 specs. Awesome stuff. Same as XM193 except Prvi looks a lot better. Bright and shiny. I've shot 3 cases so far. As you know, last year, Wolf did not specify 5,56 for Wolf gold, they specified 223 and that is what they got. 223 for European bolt guns that is single base powder and will not reliably function an auto. Not Prvi's fault. Prvi has paid the price in bad press for making EXACTLY what was ordered. Prvi 5.56 can't be beaten for ARs. |
I dont buy that for a MINUTE. The original stuff was 5.56 velocity specs, sealed primer, and bullet. That AINT .223. What is your source that shows Wolf screwed up the order by documenting a simple ".223". That smells like internet folklore. |
They are all animated.... because they have really long necks....
It doesnt kick, it just has bad recoil.....
It doesnt kick, it just has bad recoil.....
I bought some of the Wolf ammo in question last year and shot it and it short stroked and FTF. I assure you, the "original stuff" as you call it WAS NOT 5.56 specs. At least the Wolf Gold I had was not and the powder was different also. I doubt you had any, did you? Wolf took it all back, to their credit. I called several distributors and Wolf picked up all the old stock from distributors and I was told the story. It sure made sense to me because the 07 Prvi ammo I have shot is flawless. Please, DO NOT BUY the Prvi 07 new stuff for yourself. It will leave more for the rest of us who know what Prvi is. BTW, if you want to shoot reloadable brass cases, Prvi and Igman are going to be your only choices for quite a while. |
It was >3200FPS muzzle velocty, and a M193 bullet. What part of that do you assure isnt 5.56 spec?
This thread isnt about Wolf Gold.
Read the first page of this thread again - then ask me that. 
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They are all animated.... because they have really long necks....
It doesnt kick, it just has bad recoil.....
It doesnt kick, it just has bad recoil.....
I received a case of this last week for $315 delivered ($299.49 + $15.51 shipping) with my C&R from MidwayUSA. Looks like the price has gone up now. Wolf/Prvi Partizan M193 at MidwayUSA |
Worf: No! Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects. (dreamily) And claw at you.
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Shot about 500 rounds of the 2004 headstamp during a 4 day course at Front Sight. I was shooting a 11.5" SBR and a SWR SpecWar suppressor. First time ever I had a single problem with PP 193. I had a round that apparently had a primer separate from the case after it was fired. Based on how things looked later - I think the anvil of the primer ended up in the chamber area and the primer cup ended up near the gas key. The next round fed and fired but would not eject at all. The CH would unlock and move 0.25" or so but manual extraction of the fired round wasn't happening. I had to use a cleaning rod and a hammer to tap/beat the round out of the chamber. even with the round out of the chamber the BCG was stuck to the rear and the weapon couldnt be opened or put back in to immediate use. I ended up removing the receiver extension to free things up and restore operation of the rifle. I completed the course with the rifle and PP193 ammo with no other issues. Ammo was very clean and accurate but this one primer deadlined my rifle until significant disassembly/reassembly was done. No permanent damage was done that I can tell. Not the end of the world event since it was a training class and I had a back up rifle.... |
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I have PRVI M193 with 3 different head stamps. '05, 06 and '07. The 2005 lot I have is lot PPU 0503-07. I pulled a bullet and it has the stick type powder. This lot functioned fine in my 16" mid length gas carbine. It functioned ok in my 10.5" SBR. However, I discovered when I would fill a magazine with 30 rounds, the first 2-3 shots would short stroke. After that, it would empty the rest of the magazine without a problem. Same gun when loaded with Q3131 or UMC 223 would function the gun fine with 30 in the magazine. I tried several times with the PRVI but every time, the first 2 shots would short stroke. I did the loaded mag test about 10-12 times with the Q3131 and UMC .223 and the gun never short stroked. The 2006 lot I have is PPU 0702-01. I pulled a bullet from this lot tonight and it has the ball type powder. I have not shot any of this yet but from postings here believe that since it is loaded with the ball powder it should be pretty good. The 2007 lot I have not shot either. Since reports are that this is good to go M193, I'm trying to hold on to it. I found the accuracy from what I have shot is good enough for punching paper and steel plates out to 200 yrds. |
I bought one of the FIRST WOLF M193 it is 5.56 M193 right down to crimp primmer and Black Tar on the bullet THIS IS ABOUT WOLF 193 NOT BOXED PP |
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I've generally had good experience with the Prvi M193, but today I had my first negative experience. A primer came loose (after the round fired) and fell down in the lower receiver, getting down below the trigger preventing the trigger from firing. I couldn't see it until I got home and used a screwdriver to push it out the grip screw hole (I'd removed the grip because I thought I was going to have to pull the trigger). FWIW, this was the 07 stuff I got from Wideners a couple of weeks ago. The gun was a 6920 with a 3# Jard trigger. |
| 200 rounds of the '07 PPU from Widener's in a 11.5" Bushmaster. Rifle has not been cleaned in about 1,000 rounds of reloads and Wolf polymer ammo. Just a little oil on the BCG and I started blasting. The rifle got pretty hot but there were no failures of any kind. Taking a carbine course in March and I think this is what I'll use. |
Headstamp date? |
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The Prvi '07 functioned fine in my Oly 20" SS upper. Chronoed about 3175 fps at 5000' and 40 degrees....250+ rounds so far....only problem is the red primer sealant gets on the bolt face and inside the upper...the sealant does not seem to muck things up enough to cause any malfunctions... Reloads fine too...just a heavy primer crimp... |
| I bought 200 rounds from Wideners last month and it ran well through my rra upper/mega lower with no issues. It was headstamped 07. Since it worked well I bought 1k last week and it was headstamped 08 (from wideners) but havent tried it yet. Hope it runs the same. At 50 yrds with an aimpoint, it grouped well. At 100 yrds I struggled, but I think that was my fault (1st time with a rifle at 100 yrds) |
| Put over 300 rds through my CMMG 14.5" Midlength 1:7 Gov barrel. Feeds reliably without ant hiccups. Accuarcy is acceptable, generally keeping one hole at 25-50yds. The only time I've had it much past 100yds was with irons and it was a breezy day, but I still maintained an easy minute of torso at 200yds. I had pretty much identical performance from my Winchester white box. I'd like to compare this to HSM 55gr FMJ soon. |
| I like it. I find it accurate enough fo rmost "combat" type use. I have ashot about 1k of it and will buy more |
Picking up a Colt 1911 is like shaking hands with an old friend
First smiles, then lies, and last gunfire
"only fear and lack of skill drives men to want bigger calibers." -stormwalker
First smiles, then lies, and last gunfire
"only fear and lack of skill drives men to want bigger calibers." -stormwalker
Snipped. Using a stock RRA 20" A2, I had the same failures. 62 degrees and raining, rifle was cleaned and lubed. This was the second time I got to shoot it. The first time was 150 or so rounds of the stuff without a problem. I assumed the failures were due to the brass catcher I had on the rifle. I don't recall the lot and I just threw away the last box. Mine clearly said PRVI on the white paper carton, not Wolf as shown in first post. |
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Originally Posted By StraightShooter7:
Originally Posted By SUPERSPORT:
Is this the same stuff that's on/off the market now at Widener's, Palmetto State, etc. that everyone is buying? I was wondering the same thing. Yes.... Wolf is just an ammo marketing company, not a manufacturer. Wolf was getting this ammo from Prvi Partizan (PPU). |
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I've shot approximately 4K thru an SLR15 (16" bbl). Approximately 3K of '07 headstamp and remainder of 08 headstamp and have had ZERO problems with this ammuntion. No FTF or FTE. This ammunition does show some pressure signs in my rifle with some minor flattening of the primer. Accuracy is more than adequate, being able to hit steel, torso sized targets at 300 meters with iron sites.
Until I have a problem, this is my go-to brand. |
From the movie THEY LIVE
"I have come here to chew bubble gum, and kick ass...
I am all outta bubble gum"
"I have come here to chew bubble gum, and kick ass...
I am all outta bubble gum"
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I recently got a case of this Prvi M193 5.56 55gr from Widener's. I got a case of Wolf 62gr the same day, as luck would have it. I had been shooting Remington and Federal .223 from Walmart, and the gun was zeroed at 100 yards based on that ammo.
Today I loaded up the Prvi 5.56, and it was shooting very low (almost 4") and to the right (about 2"). It grouped as well as the Remington and Federal that I'd been shooting, the point of impact was just off. The Wolf didn't group as well, but the POI was similar to the other .223. I'm a rookie when it comes to rifle cartridges. Does this difference in POI seem odd, or is there enough of a difference in now it's loaded (as compared to the .223) to equal that much of a difference? |
| There is usually a POI difference from round to round among different manufacturers, hence the advice to zero in a weapon with a specific brand and type. Funny, on both of my 20" pre-ban 1/7 Colts lower power .223 ammo shoots lower and 5.56mm-load ammo tends to shoot higher. However, your results may vary. This observation was confirmed yet again last week when I compared 2008 batch Federal XM193/55-gr FMJBT/5.56mm ammo to Prvi/75-gr OTM/ .223 match ammo. At 100-yards the Prvi .223 match shot about 1.5-inches low and to the right, and at 200-yards about 3-inches low and to the right. Since this is my go-to match ammo for military rifle shoots, I re-zeroed both Colt Ponies to the PRVI 75-gr OTM. |
Ammunition review - Wolf M193/Prvi Partizan M193 (Page 5 of 6)
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