Originally Posted By Midwest_Ind:
If we build some clones it will be our version of the issued gun . This is definitely not for everyone but nothing is. It would be a very niche novelty type firearm. I agree it’s not a Arfcom tier one seal delta sniper door gunner rifle but it’s still cool.

Troy
MI

Originally Posted By xldrvr:
I decided to convert one of my M4A1 SBR's, into a USAF GAU-5A Clone.

Extra Parts include:

Cry Havoc QRB Kit
BCM 12.5" Govt. Contour BBL
BCM Low Profile Gas Block
MI-G3ML10 Free Float Hand Guard
FAB Defense AGF-43S Folding Pistol Grip
Magpul MBUS Pro Iron Sight Set

The only difference, from the USAF GUA-5A, I used an extra KAC M4QD flash hider, for my NT4 suppressor.

As the previous post stated, BCM 12.5" barrel was very tight fit!  I used a lubricating/oil one the barrel and upper receiver, after a few on/off cycles, the barrel slides much easier.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/OKjiyS.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/OM7rwP.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Li9ezm.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/eWsxkJ.jpg

Originally Posted By xldrvr:
I decided to convert one of my M4A1 SBR's, into a USAF GAU-5A Clone.

Extra Parts include:

Cry Havoc QRB Kit
BCM 12.5" Govt. Contour BBL
BCM Low Profile Gas Block
MI-G3ML10 Free Float Hand Guard
FAB Defense AGF-43S Folding Pistol Grip
Magpul MBUS Pro Iron Sight Set

The only difference, from the USAF GUA-5A, I used an extra KAC M4QD flash hider, for my NT4 suppressor.

As the previous post stated, BCM 12.5" barrel was very tight fit!  I used a lubricating/oil one the barrel and upper receiver, after a few on/off cycles, the barrel slides much easier.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/OKjiyS.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/OM7rwP.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Li9ezm.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/eWsxkJ.jpg

Originally Posted By 2Hut8:

So how much play do you have in your FAB Defense AGF-43S?

Originally Posted By Midwest_Ind:
As many of you probably know we were involved in the production of the Air Force GAU-5A Rifle which is a break down carbine that ejects with the pilot and gives them a means to defend themselves.

We are proud to have been involved in the development of this project and have been discussing the idea of releasing a clone in pistol form.

Your thoughts on offering this would be appreciated.

Originally Posted By DocGlockster:

I'm all for it.  A takedown AR would have to be the ultimate camping/backpacking/boondocking/survival/SHTF accessory.

I plan to get one as soon as funds allow.

Originally Posted By xldrvr:

There's a little  play, not too bad, enough to be noticeable.  The grip was the only problem I had, with the build.  The head of the standard AR-15 grip screw, is too wide, and grip won't lock into place.  I ended up using a allen head grip screw, from my Brownells retro AR, and the grip works perfectly.

Cry Havoc QRB Civilian Quick Release Barrel System

Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

Is the Civi part of the description just marketing, or are there two versions?

Originally Posted By xldrvr:
I decided to convert one of my Colt M4A1 SBR, into a USAF GAU-5A Clone.

Extra Parts include:

Cry Havoc QRB Kit
BCM 12.5" Govt. Contour BBL
BCM Low Profile Gas Block
MI-G3ML10 Free Float Hand Guard
FAB Defense AGF-43S Folding Pistol Grip
Magpul MBUS Pro Iron Sight Set

The only difference, from the USAF GUA-5A, I used an extra KAC M4QD flash hider, for my NT4 suppressor.

As the previous post stated, BCM 12.5" barrel was very tight fit!  I used a lubricating/oil one the barrel and upper receiver, after a few on/off cycles, the barrel slides much easier.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/OKjiyS.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/OM7rwP.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Li9ezm.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/eWsxkJ.jpg

Originally Posted By 2Hut8:
Mine arrived today.    Order process took longer than I expected and was a little more hassle than I expected.     MI could improve this a bit so let me explain.   I ordered mine on Monday Jan 27 with the website saying the item was in stock.   We had good weather forecast for the weekend and I wasn't scheduled to work so I added expedited shipping in the hopes that it would make it for the weekend.    I notified my FFL to send their info over and they confirmed within the hour that they had done so.   Shortly after I placed my order the MI site said they were out of stock.    Not knowing if my order was before or after the inventory was depleted I emailed MI to check the status.    I did not receive a response.    The next day I called MI to check the status of the order.   Then I was told that the person who could provide the status was in a meeting and I would get a call back after the meeting was complete.  The person on the phone asked if I had submitted the FFL info, confirmed that they had it, and told me to expect a call back.    I did not receive a call.    On Friday I still wasn't clear on when to expect the pistol so I called again.   This time I was told that they had my order but because MI doesn't actually stock firearms they were going to have to build it.   They were currently running approx one week on building firearms so it should ship Monday Feb 3.   Personally, I am not thrilled that they list items in stock but don't really have them in stock.    But MI builds good stuff so it should be good.  Then the person asked if I had submitted my FFL info, verified that they had it, and we ended the call.    On Wednesday Feb 5 I get an email saying that my pistol is built and that they need my FFL info to ship it.    I called and explained that they already confirmed they had it twice.   She put me on hold for nearly ten minutes but when she came back she said that they did indeed have it and they would ship the pistol that day.   It arrived at my FFL on Friday Feb 7 so I picked it up.  

It arrived in large box with a hat, couple of stickers, 30 round magazine with orange follower, cable lock, a reprint of an Army/Air Force/Navy Technical Manual, MI Cozy, a lifetime warranty certificate, and a one page safety sheet.    The TM is for a M16A2, M16A3, M16A4, M4, and M4A1.    There isn't anything that explains the specific details of THIS rifle.   Specifically the sights, Fab Defense AGF-43S pistol grip,  Cry Havoc disassembly mechanism do not have any information on how they function.   Particularly this is an issue for the Cry Havoc mechanism because you cannot disassemble the pistol with the bolt forward locked into the barrel.   This detail may be missed by people that do not understand AR's.   I have HEARD that letting a bolt slam home without a barrel being installed is not good for the weapon either.   I don't know if that is an issue with the MI USAF GAU-5A.

The fit on the Cry Havoc mechanism is TIGHT.    That explains why other reviews indicate that weapons can be disassembled and re-assembled with this mechanism and still hold zero.    It is TOUGH getting the barrel off.   Instructions explaining the best way to remove the barrel will save people from getting creative and damaging parts, especially if they do not know that the bolt MUST be removed/locked back before disassembling.   Putting it back on is not difficult.  

The Fab Defense AGF-43S has quite a bit of play in it.    Currently I find it annoying but I am trying to accept it.    Folding the pistol grip only save about an inch so I may change the pistol grip if it continues to irritate me.  

I gave the pistol a quick cleaning with CLP and took it to the range to sight it in.   I had an issue with the empty chamber indicator being wedged into the chamber.    When I tried to remove it the stem broke off and left part of the flag in the chamber.   I tapped it out with a cleaning rod.  

I had the weapon zeroed in fifteen rounds despite the front sight being hard to see with my old eyes.    It is on the narrow side but that is easy to change.   I am not going to attest to accuracy at this point because my eyes aren't up to precise shooting without a scope.  

I put 120 rounds of Wolf Gold .223 through the pistol at the range.   Ejection pattern was a little erratic.    Typically it was 4:00 o'clock.   Sometimes closer to 5:30 but some times it was 1:00.   I am expecting this to improve after more use.   There were no malfunctions or indications of excessive pressure.   I used both OKAY and Magpul magazines.   All of the magazines had green followers.  

The upper measures 14.375" and the lower measures 15" long.    

Overall I like it.   I hope that it gets easier to disassemble in time.   I will probably change the sights to something that I can see better.  

2Hut8

Edit:   I have taken it apart and put it back together nearly thirty times.   The first couple of times I had to use a screw driver wrapped in electrical tape placed between the two mating surfaces.   Twisting the screw driver would push them apart.    And yes, I always verify the bolt is locked back.   It is getting easier.   Now I can disassemble it and reassembly it by hand.   It takes both hands on the hand guard pulling the stock into my leg to assemble it.   Removing the barrel can now be done by locking the bolt back, opening the barrel "catches" and pushing against the catches with my thumbs.    It is still pretty difficult and at this point both of my thumbs are bleeding.   It is still much more difficult than most of the videos that I see online but it is improving.

Originally Posted By 2Hut8:


Their website shows two versions but it appears that one is for AR-15's and the other is for AR-10's.   I don't see anything implying that their is a MIL/LEO version that is different from a consumer model.  

2Hut8

Originally Posted By ajacobs:
The mil version has a second locator pin.

Originally Posted By Earl_Burlin:


This.

I don’t understand why the difference in the two systems (civilian vs. military).

On the Cry Havoc website, they even have a video on the product page for the “military” QRB titled “why you NEED the military version” or something to that effect. Here is a link:

https://cryhavoctac.com/223qrbgen2.html

The “military” two pin system seems like the better setup. Why, then, is it not used on the MI GAU-5A pistol “clone”? Also, the marking and their locations don’t seem to match between the real military rifles and the MI guns.

Not much of a clone at all, and the inferior civilian QRB system MI is using is a real let down. Oh, and you can build the exact same setup for around $1100. Not sure why Midwest Industries product is as expensive as it is.

Hard pass, and I’m saying this as an active duty Airman who REALLY wants a GAU-5A clone...

Originally Posted By 2Hut8:


I have the Midwest clone.  I have assembled it and disassembled it dozens of times.   I cannot say with certainty that the .mil version is better or not but I can say that getting the barrel to fit in the receptacle requires more attention than getting the pins lined up.   When assembling the pistol I make a half-hearted attempt to line it up, get the barrel started, and then rotate until the half’s come together, exactly like in the video.   In that regard I don’t see an improvement.   Now maybe with the .mil version you can try to force it and fail until the pins line up without hurting anything.   I haven’t tried that on the civilian version.  

Could Midwest have gone further to make this a closer/better clone?   Sure.   They could have used an SB4 brace instead of an SB3.   That alone would make it look more like the actual GAU-5A.   And they did say in their releases that this wasn’t intended to be an actual CLONE per se.   It was going to be their version.   And for the record, as much as I like this weapon, I would like it better if it was a closer clone.  

What Midwest did do and did well was make a QUALITY, legal approximation for a civilian that serves the same purpose as the GAU-5A.  They made a reliable, dependable, effective weapon that can be packed down into a small discrete package.  It can be assembled and put in service VERY quickly.   Could you build it cheaper yourself?   Almost certainly.   But for the guy/gal that doesn’t have the skills, time, desire to source the parts and put this together Midwest handles this for them.   They also stand behind their work in a manner that is truly impressive for today’s day and age.   I have used Midwest Industries products for years and they have always taken care of any issues that I have had in a manner that has impressed me.   I am particularly impressed about how well they handle issues with firearms.   I can provide more info there if anyone needs additional information.  

Anyway, I am more than a little surprised at how often I throw the bag with my MI-GAU-5A-P into the truck.   Pretty much any time we take a trip that covers more than 100 miles or spans over a couple of days that bag goes in the car.   When we get to the destination it often gets unloaded and staged with everything else and even the “gun savvy” people around don’t have any idea that there is a weapon there.  My day job doesn’t allow weapons on the property but during the recent riots/demonstrations in the area I may or may not have brought that bag into work with me and no one was any wiser.   I can safely say that my EDC CCW is more noticeable than the MI pistol.   To be clear, my EDC can be put into service in less than two seconds.   The MI pistol takes less than ten seconds to put in service from my bag on my shoulder.  It was timed with a shot timer.   Obviously if I have to retrieve the bag then it will take longer.  

So despite not being a perfect clone, I think the MI version is worth what they are charging and shouldn’t be dismissed as a potential candidate for someone wanting a functional, effective weapon that can be transported very discretely.  

2HUT8

 

Originally Posted By Midwest_Ind:
I have had a bunch of requests for the actual bags that the rifle is kept in under the seat.  I got the quote and in true government fashion they cost  $3700.00 each and they don’t include any of the survival equipment.  20 week lead time. We won’t be offering any bags for these guns.  

Troy

MI

Originally Posted By swOHmatt:
...don’t tell us what you can do, do it and post pictures.

Originally Posted By 2Hut8:


If this is directed towards me then I did post pictures earlier in the thread.   If there is something specific that you would like to see pictures of then I would need more information.  

Thanks,

2Hut8

Originally Posted By Midwest_Ind:
I stayed at a holiday inn express last night so I am a expert. Just ask me anything.  Lol


Troy

MI

Originally Posted By Midwest_Ind:
If we build some clones it will be our version of the issued gun . This is definitely not for everyone but nothing is. It would be a very niche novelty type firearm. I agree it’s not a Arfcom tier one seal delta sniper door gunner rifle but it’s still cool.

Troy
MI

Originally Posted By Earl_Burlin:  What a lame response, and from the manufacturer no less?

Great way to show you could care less about potential customers. All I’m saying is you could have done a whole lot better with your so-called “clone” and it would have generated more interest, and revenue, for your product.

It’s your loss

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
That's super cool, but I couldn't justify spending the money.  I think that will be a common response.  But, presumably you are already set up to make them, so why not lot a few out for the niche market?

Originally Posted By egress81:



The kit that is in the seat pan connects to the pilots harness and hangs from their butt.  It wouldn't be very comfortable to carry.

People are better off getting their favorite bag/pack and using that instead.

Originally Posted By Midwest_Ind:
If we build some clones it will be our version of the issued gun . This is definitely not for everyone but nothing is. It would be a very niche novelty type firearm. I agree it’s not a Arfcom tier one seal delta sniper door gunner rifle but it’s still cool.

Troy
MI

Originally Posted By AEROMechanic:
@Midwest_Ind

Any idea if you’ll make more?