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Posted: 9/10/2021 6:46:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Have you shot living things with a rifle and a pistol? Was there a difference?
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Posted: 9/10/2021 6:50:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you shot living things with a rifle and a pistol? Was there a difference? Do groundhogs count? |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 6:57:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Sure. Which makes them explode?
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:00:10 PM EDT
[#4]
The IWI strikes me as a bit more reliable and easier handling. Of the 2 choices, I would take the one that is more reliable and easier handling. That its terminal ballistics is more impressive would only seal the deal. Of course, it is going to be very loud, so plan accordingly. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:01:58 PM EDT
[#5]
My HD SBR is 9mm
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:04:12 PM EDT
[#6]
The primary reason I would select the 5.56x45 rather than the 9mm would be because rifle rounds are more effective than handgun rounds.
While it is possible to mitigate hearing damage, worrying about hearing damage wouldn't be nearly as high on my list of concerns as surviving a threat to my survival. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:06:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. Which makes them explode? Well, I once shot a groundhog with a .308, (150 grain JSP), and a few weeks later shot a groundhog with a .38 Super 115 grain JHP loaded hot. (1980s hot!). Neither one actually exploded, but the handgun example looked more dramatic, with a very large exit wound. I understand your post, but there is more to such things than simply rifle or handgun. Bullet selection is highly important. For the record, both were instant kills. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:14:13 PM EDT
[#8]
A 9mm barrel can be shorter without giving up reliability, and 9mm suppresses well.
Those are its only advantages. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:16:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of the 2 choices, I would take the one that is more reliable and easier handling. That its terminal ballistics is more impressive would only seal the deal. Of course, it is going to be very loud, so plan accordingly. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:18:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 9mm barrel can be shorter without giving up reliability, and 9mm suppresses well. Those are its only advantages. It is easy/cheap to load 9mm for practice. You can cast your own bullets, use less powder, and probably get plenty of brass for free. (free brass for 9 is only a slight advantage, but I thought I would just throw it out there). So, it has more than 2 advantages. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:19:48 PM EDT
[#11]
556 because sometimes home intruders wear armor.
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:47:46 PM EDT
[#12]
My house guns go as follows. But I also live pretty far out so if I go through a few walls there are no neighbors!
Nightstand pistol for house Glock 19, rmr, Surefire x300u Shotgun for house. Mossberg 10 inch SBS with surefire scout light. Rifle for house DD MK18/aimpoint sbr, with surefire rc2, and scout light. Rifle for property. Reming 700 in 308 with dead air sandman and nightforce. But in all reality the gun I grab in every go to situation is a the Mk18. A short AR is the best of all worlds in my opinion. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 7:49:41 PM EDT
[#13]
I have an AR next to the door for a coyote infestation I have, that would be my choice for two legged vermin also.
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Posted: 9/10/2021 8:26:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 556 because sometimes home intruders wear armor. Rough neighborhood..... |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 8:33:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Didn't see 12 gauge in the option list, but for "maximum effort" (Deadpool) on target per round, the 12 is the gun I pick up if I hear bump in the night.
Terminal Effects of 00 or #1 buckshot...  Lights OUT!No disrespect, but 9mm even in a 8" barrel is still pretty short of 5.56 in the 10". however, the flash & noise indoors may be a factor. Have you tried shooting the two at night for giggles? BIGGER_HAMMER  |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 8:39:51 PM EDT
[#16]
If I had to choose one it would be a suppressed 5.56 SBR/Pistol. Which I have along with suppressed 9mm's and the odd shotgun.
I would have to think long and hard about using an AR that was not suppressed for a home defense gun. The thought of touching off an SBR inside my home without a can is sobering. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 9:02:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I have a 8" AR-9 that takes Glock mags. 8" barrel. Also have a IWI 5.56 with a 12.5" barrel. I'm a bit torn as to which should be my designated house gun. The IWI strikes me as a bit more reliable and easier handling. The AR-9 would be a great "fun gun" or the like. Given these options, what would you choose? And why? Between those two, easily the 12.5" 5.56. You can even run fragmenting rounds that won't go through ALL of your neighbors walls....(only a couple of neighbors....that snooty ones....so no biggie). |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 10:47:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I had to choose one it would be a suppressed 5.56 SBR/Pistol. Which I have along with suppressed 9mm's and the odd shotgun. I would have to think long and hard about using an AR that was not suppressed for a home defense gun. The thought of touching off an SBR inside my home without a can is sobering. Eh, I’ve done that before….  I can still hear pretty well… what did you say? It will certainly get your attention. I guess it wasn’t a SBR actually, just a carbine. Still pretty damn loud.
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Posted: 9/10/2021 11:32:24 PM EDT
[#19]
I cannot see any situation in which I would choose a 9mm over a 12 gauge or 5.56 rifle. That is, if there is a choice. I don't carry a longgun daily, but I carry a 9mm daily.
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Posted: 9/10/2021 11:34:05 PM EDT
[#20]
A Mini-14 was fired indoors, by me in a negligent discharge several years ago. Muzzle pointed in a safe direction resulted in a hole in my ceiling. Yes it was loud, but I still have reasonably decent hearing after 50 years of shooting, ALMOST exclusively WITH hearing protection, even though I've had tinnitus all my life. My AR9 PISTOL is primary for inside the house. It has a Deadfoot Arms Modified Cycling System bolt assembly that makes it very easy to move around inside the house with. 33 rounds of 9mm goodness is comforting. I have a 12 ga 870 and an AR in easy reach as well. Whatever ends up beng closest will get the job.
TL;DR BOTH or all 3 
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Posted: 9/10/2021 11:44:41 PM EDT
[#21]
12 gauge with 18” barrel. Or my 9mm handgun. Never a AR pistol just too much.
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Posted: 9/10/2021 11:50:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Option C.
Sell the 5.56 barrel (or keep it) and get a 300 BLK. A suppressed SBR in 300 BLK with 110gr black tips is as close to the "perfect" HD setup as you can get. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 5:58:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't see 12 gauge in the option list, but for "maximum effort" (Deadpool) on target per round, the 12 is the gun I pick up if I hear bump in the night. Terminal Effects of 00 or #1 buckshot... Lights OUT!No disrespect, but 9mm even in a 8" barrel is still pretty short of 5.56 in the 10". however, the flash & noise indoors may be a factor. Have you tried shooting the two at night for giggles? BIGGER_HAMMER 3 years ago on New Years Eve with near zero darkness present... I touched off 4-5 rounds of Hornady 75gr TAP thru my 10.5" that is tipped off with an SEI Vortex Flash Suppressor... I'd say all but maybe 3% of the flash was dissipated. The Vortex does a really good job eating muzzle flash especially with SD ammo that has flash retardants in the powder. I keep a pair of Howard Leight electronic muffs on the nightstand and easy enough to put on for both enhanced hearing under 85 decibels and good protection above that threshold. Of course, YMMV... |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 1:28:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you shot living things with a rifle and a pistol? Was there a difference? Have you fired off a rifle and a pistol inside a room? Was there a difference? |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 1:31:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 9mm barrel can be shorter without giving up reliability, and 9mm suppresses well. Those are its only advantages. Faster followup shots, less felt recoil. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 1:40:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Faster followup shots, less felt recoil. You've shot a 5.56 before right? Follow up shots are instantaneous. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 1:42:36 PM EDT
[#27]
The biggest difference will be noise and terminal effectiveness. No doubt that 5.56 will be more effective, but also way louder. If you have a suppressor, then yeah 5.56 all the way. If you don't then 9mm isn't a bad choice. But yeah personally give me a 5.56 rifle a 9mm pistol.
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Posted: 9/11/2021 1:54:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 9mm barrel can be shorter without giving up reliability, and 9mm suppresses well. Those are its only advantages. A 9mm you can shoot inside a room and reasonably expect your hearing to recover. A short barreled 5.56 not so much. Yes, there is ear protection, but there is the chance you may not have time for that. I mean, look how crazy some folks get about turning a RDS off when not in use. Oh, but you won't have time to turn that knob..... My ears have been ringing 24/7 for 4 decades. It's not fun. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 2:13:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is easy/cheap to load 9mm for practice. You can cast your own bullets, use less powder, and probably get plenty of brass for free. (free brass for 9 is only a slight advantage, but I thought I would just throw it out there). So, it has more than 2 advantages. Nope! These are subjective advantages to the reloader and one that has the ability to cast only. To people that don't reload, Rodent is still correct. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 4:32:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you fired off a rifle and a pistol inside a room? Was there a difference? Probably the only person you’ve ever met who has fired a 375 magnum at something living while indoors. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 6:57:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably the only person you’ve ever met who has fired a 375 magnum at something living while indoors. Go on... 
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Posted: 9/11/2021 11:26:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Option C. Sell the 5.56 barrel (or keep it) and get a 300 BLK. A suppressed SBR in 300 BLK with 110gr black tips is as close to the "perfect" HD setup as you can get. Even without the suppressor, this. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 12:08:28 PM EDT
[#33]
MP5K from a white keeper van (with side door open) in Full auto, ears started ringing after first round with plugs. Enclosed space makes a huge difference.
I would say, whatever you have/use is better than a call to 911. Steve |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 12:32:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 556 because sometimes home intruders wear armor. On their heads ? |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 12:40:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My ears have been ringing 24/7 for 4 decades. It's not fun. I'm OK with it. Helps drown out all those voices. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 12:44:22 PM EDT
[#36]
I'll take the IWI given your two options. I currently use a suppressed 10" 5.56 SBR for home defense. I'll probably move to a LWRC Six8 UCIW SBR in a few months when it gets approved. With the Vox-K it will be shorter and have more energy on target than a 5.56 or .300 Blackout with the same barrel length (or even a little bit longer barrel).
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Posted: 9/14/2021 2:28:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm OK with it. Helps drown out all those voices. If it weren't for the voices, I would have nobody to talk to
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Posted: 9/14/2021 5:25:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks for the replies. Thinking of setting up both , one for a house gun, the other more general purpose (like possums digging up my flower beds).
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Posted: 9/17/2021 1:34:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Too bad the 458 SOCOM with LeHigh Defense's new 570 grain subsonic Controlled Chaos bullet is just a tad too long to fit in an AR-15. That thing is a freakin brick that crushes anything.
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Posted: 9/23/2021 5:57:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Thanks for the replies. I took delivery of the IWI Zion 12.5" a few weeks ago and I'm really liking that barrel length. Also may be switching up my house pistol to a Canick, so the matching Glock mag issue is a moot point now anyway. Work in progress, I guess.
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Posted: 9/23/2021 6:27:00 PM EDT
[#41]
I would choose 556 just because it's more reliable. I have several 556 pistols that are all 100% reliable.
I've never had a Glock mag AR9 that was 100% reliable. |
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Posted: 9/23/2021 7:18:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Good call, OP.
9mm AR9s and the like are for range fun shooting suppressed, not HD IMO. |
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Posted: 9/23/2021 8:57:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Do some reading on terminal ballistics. You'll quickly come to realize 5.56 is the best solution. Pay attention to primary and secondary wound cavities of both rounds and you'll see high velocity rounds rapidly destabilize and the energy transfer is immense.
Yes, it's loud indoors. Yes, you will incur some hearing damage If you're picking up a rifle because someone is in your home, you got much bigger problems than a little hearing loss. |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 12:43:09 AM EDT
[#44]
I've never had a Glock mag AR9 that was 100% reliable. Well, Glock mag. Seems to be a common issue. My 9 runs on Endo's, 100% so far. |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 12:45:01 AM EDT
[#45]
If you're picking up a rifle because someone is in your home, you got much bigger problems than a little hearing loss. Easy to say, less so to live with. I have not had a moment of silence in my life for over 4 decades. |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 12:52:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good call, OP. 9mm AR9s and the like are for range fun shooting suppressed, not HD IMO. Which explains why the MP5 and UZI have been so popular among anti-terrorist and special forces for so many decades....... |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 1:48:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Why exactly are people worried about using a rifle in the extremely slim chance you’ll ever have to shoot someone in your home?
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Posted: 9/24/2021 2:34:34 AM EDT
[#48]
If you are using anything other than a handgun indoors, why? Harder to operate in distances measured infeet and sometimes inches? Why?
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Posted: 9/24/2021 3:06:23 AM EDT
[#49]
I asked myself the same question a year ago. Keep the 8" 9mm Stribog on a defensive stand-by or switch to my 10.3" 5.56 Saint Edge AR. I chose my AR. I actually just put the 10.3" AR in the safe and placed my new 5.5" Saint Victor PDW 5.56 AR on stand-by.
 Attached FileMany may consider this a poor strategy but hear me out. I've read that 55gr Sierra BlitzKings will reliably fragment down to 1800fps with 400ft-lb of energy on target. It will leave the barrel at about 2100fps with 500ft-lb of energy giving me around a 100yd max effective range. I live in a cookie cutter neighborhood and have a house with 13 different areas to clear, some in tight spaces. Closest neighboring homes are 12' away and I have children. I want a defensive AR on stand-by while avoiding unnecessary overpenatration. Is this a sound strategy or am I all fucked up? Check my fire. |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 5:06:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are using anything other than a handgun indoors, why? Harder to operate in distances measured infeet and sometimes inches? Why? LMAO Go ask anyone who's trained in clearing structures that question first, the guys who use handguns as secondary's. But to me, a rifle is easier to use than a pistol or a PCC. Has superior ballistics than a handgun, requiring less hits. Has accessories such as lights so if committed I'll have a superior spill and throw should I need to exit the structure, and a red dot always on that is faster to use than the irons on my handgun. And if the shots are in inches or feet meaning contact shots, it means that I was too complacent by not locking things or taken the initiative to make a break-in harder to do or conduct, or plainly my tactics suck and should have gotten then training to learn how to properly train myself first. |
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