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Posted: 8/3/2022 10:20:25 AM EDT
[#1]
They will be classified as firearms and require serilization and a 4473 if shipped with any other parts or a jig or instructions on how to complete them.
Just a bare 80% will still be classified as a non firearm is my interpretation of the new ruling and will not require serial numbers or any FFL involvement or record keeping. |
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Posted: 8/3/2022 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will be classified as firearms and require serilization and a 4473 if shipped with any other parts or a jig or instructions on how to complete them. Just a bare 80% will still be classified as a non firearm is my interpretation of the new ruling and will not require serial numbers or any FFL involvement or record keeping. Yep, I got an email from a provider of 80's and it said they will still ship the lowers but you will have to get the jig elsewhere. Yet another "ruling" that is purely an inconvenience. |
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Posted: 8/3/2022 11:13:42 AM EDT
[#3]
New Rule: All 80% lowers will be SN# 1
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Posted: 8/5/2022 4:46:46 PM EDT
[#4]
It's all so tarded.
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Posted: 8/5/2022 11:42:06 PM EDT
[#5]
NFA states that 80 lowers will become serialized blocks of aluminum on Aug. 24th. There will be no reason to make them anymore. Why would anyone want to go through the paperwork hassle and have to machine it too.
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Posted: 8/5/2022 11:59:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Uppers will need SN too
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Posted: 8/6/2022 12:08:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New Rule: All 80% lowers will be SN# 1 Use letters "FATF" |
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Posted: 8/6/2022 8:30:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uppers will need SN too Only on new designs. FATF has said they won’t change the receiver designation for existing designs like the AR. Until they do in the next rule change. |
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Posted: 8/7/2022 3:31:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NFA states that 80 lowers will become serialized blocks of aluminum on Aug. 24th. There will be no reason to make them anymore. Why would anyone want to go through the paperwork hassle and have to machine it too. That’s a little how it is now with AK Receivers. Go through the FFL you will still have to drill at least trunnion holes and of course rivet. So this becomes even more a nuisance for AK building. |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 12:24:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NFA states that 80 lowers will become serialized blocks of aluminum on Aug. 24th. There will be no reason to make them anymore. Why would anyone want to go through the paperwork hassle and have to machine it too. DIYers will have to start switching to this. Lol 0% Lower |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 1:39:45 PM EDT
[#11]
It is all so tiring.
The rules are unenforceable. Simple trick for an 80 company. Sell the jig under a different LLC then give a coupon code for free shipping when you order the lower. Different orders from different companies. |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 7:24:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Deleted
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:59:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistorySad thing is back in 2014 that looked like a joke...  Nowdays it doesn't seem like such a stretch for BATFE to start requiring every billet to be serialized, registered and charged the 11% excise tax... Oh, and tampering with that serial number (like milling the block) would be a felony. So... No more building even from 0% because of the SN. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 5:10:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NFA states that 80 lowers will become serialized blocks of aluminum on Aug. 24th. There will be no reason to make them anymore. Why would anyone want to go through the paperwork hassle and have to machine it too. Do not assume the only reason to build an 80% is to dodge making a record. Some like the challenge. Others buy receivers in the raw or without roll marks or brand logos so they can make replicas of other brands or put their own artwork and personal selector settings on a lower. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:18:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do not assume the only reason to build an 80% is to dodge making a record. Some like the challenge. Others buy receivers in the raw or without roll marks or brand logos so they can make replicas of other brands or put their own artwork and personal selector settings on a lower. Some of us just happen to like the clean look of no markings! 
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:35:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do not assume the only reason to build an 80% is to dodge making a record. Some like the challenge. Others buy receivers in the raw or without roll marks or brand logos so they can make replicas of other brands or put their own artwork and personal selector settings on a lower. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: NFA states that 80 lowers will become serialized blocks of aluminum on Aug. 24th. There will be no reason to make them anymore. Why would anyone want to go through the paperwork hassle and have to machine it too. Do not assume the only reason to build an 80% is to dodge making a record. Some like the challenge. Others buy receivers in the raw or without roll marks or brand logos so they can make replicas of other brands or put their own artwork and personal selector settings on a lower. I know folks here who make them to clone weapons they carried in combat or boot. Lots of people in fact. I like the clean look. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 9:36:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryI DO like that |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:53:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sad thing is back in 2014 that looked like a joke... Nowdays it doesn't seem like such a stretch for BATFE to start requiring every billet to be serialized, registered and charged the 11% excise tax... Oh, and tampering with that serial number (like milling the block) would be a felony. So... No more building even from 0% because of the SN. Legally speaking maybe, but the reality is they can't stop it. I've machined several trigger jigs that wouldn't take much work to become a firearm. My 3d printer is running now. Shinzo Abe was killed with an improvised weapon in a country where firearms are all but illegal to the point when the assassin fired the first shot, nobody even considered that could have been a gun. Personally, I make guns because it's more interesting than model engines. Yeah they are both really cool and require a bit of skill and can be quite challenging. But one I can actually enjoy after building. The other would just sit on a shelf and make people ask "why". Ok, maybe they ask why with both. You can buy a gun. You can modify a gun, you can assemble a gun from parts, you can make parts for a gun, you can make parts to build into a gun. You can make a gun, period. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 1:30:28 AM EDT
[#19]
So do 80% lowers now have SN from the factory after 24 August?
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Posted: 8/17/2022 6:48:01 AM EDT
[#20]
ATF page says rule goes into effect on the 24th maybe 23rd is the last day before they do whatever it is they are going to do.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 9:46:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So do 80% lowers now have SN from the factory after 24 August? Read through the new determination for yourself, but as far as I can ascertain from reading it, that's the way it will be. Nothing else makes any sense. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 10:20:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read through the new determination for yourself, but as far as I can ascertain from reading it, that's the way it will be. Nothing else makes any sense. When I read the proposed rule, I believe it is going to classify a bare 80% as a non-firearm as before. Read my first post as I believe it nails it. (FPNI) |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 10:38:40 AM EDT
[#23]
All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn.
Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 10:55:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. There were many firearms made prior to 1968 that had no serial number. And, there is nothing in the law that states a serial number must be present on a firearm in an FFL's inventory. Just enter "none pre-1968", "None", or "N/A" in the serial # column in the bound book and on all other paperwork. Correction: According the latest "rule" from the ATF, all firearms in an FFL's inventory/possession must have a serial number, as of April 2022. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:17:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. Quote HistoryQuoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. Right or wrong his is mentioned in one of the guides on the change at the ATF site. Notably, licensees are not required to mark PMFs received for same day adjustment or repair and returned to the person from whom it was received. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:26:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right or wrong his is mentioned in one of the guides on the change at the ATF site. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. Right or wrong his is mentioned in one of the guides on the change at the ATF site. Notably, licensees are not required to mark PMFs received for same day adjustment or repair and returned to the person from whom it was received. Correct. Same day transactions as I understand it will not require it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:28:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:When I read the proposed rule, I believe it is going to classify a bare 80% as a non-firearm as before. Read my first post as I believe it nails it. (FPNI) They're trying to get rid of "ghost" guns, so why would they continue to allow 80s to be sold as they are now? One thing is certain. We'll know for sure in about 7 days. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:28:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were many firearms made prior to 1968 that had no serial number. And, there is nothing in the law that states a serial number must be present on a firearm in an FFL's inventory. Just enter "none pre-1968", "None", or "N/A" in the serial # column in the bound book and on all other paperwork. Correction: According the latest "rule" from the ATF, all firearms in an FFL's inventory/possession must have a serial number, as of April 2022. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. There were many firearms made prior to 1968 that had no serial number. And, there is nothing in the law that states a serial number must be present on a firearm in an FFL's inventory. Just enter "none pre-1968", "None", or "N/A" in the serial # column in the bound book and on all other paperwork. Correction: According the latest "rule" from the ATF, all firearms in an FFL's inventory/possession must have a serial number, as of April 2022. That has been a great question amongst many, what happens to these historical firearms that at one point in time did not require a SN until this year. Smiths will have to turn around work quicker or have the individual pick up the item at the end of the day and bring it back for more work if it requires it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:55:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That has been a great question amongst many, what happens to these historical firearms that at one point in time did not require a SN until this year. Smiths will have to turn around work quicker or have the individual pick up the item at the end of the day and bring it back for more work if it requires it. I don't see any new marking requirement for those older guns only changes in new manufacturer, imported, and PMF's. Do you know what section changed that would be applicable and makes changes to those guns? |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:12:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see any new marking requirement for those older guns only changes in new manufacturer, imported, and PMF's. Do you know what section changed that would be applicable and makes changes to those guns? Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see any new marking requirement for those older guns only changes in new manufacturer, imported, and PMF's. Do you know what section changed that would be applicable and makes changes to those guns? I stand corrected now. Does not apply to firearms manufactured or made before the effective date of the Gun Control Act of 1968, October 22, 1968, unless remanufactured after that date. You can find everything here in the final ruling: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/overview-final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-%E2%80%9Cframe-or-receiver%E2%80%9D-and-identification/download |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:38:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stand corrected now. You can find everything here in the final ruling: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/overview-final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-%E2%80%9Cframe-or-receiver%E2%80%9D-and-identification/download Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't see any new marking requirement for those older guns only changes in new manufacturer, imported, and PMF's. Do you know what section changed that would be applicable and makes changes to those guns? I stand corrected now. Does not apply to firearms manufactured or made before the effective date of the Gun Control Act of 1968, October 22, 1968, unless remanufactured after that date. You can find everything here in the final ruling: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/overview-final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-%E2%80%9Cframe-or-receiver%E2%80%9D-and-identification/download Looks like their requirements might make it close to impossible for an FFL to make a legal serial number on many guns. Given the very long serial numbers, and the minimum size of the lettering, how would they be expected to fit that on, for example, the small metal plate on a P80 frame? Engraving it on polymer is a no-no. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:39:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. Anyone who makes there own gun has no business taking it to a gunsmith. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:59:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who makes there own gun has no business taking it to a gunsmith. Exactly, so the question is whats the purpose of this? To put 80% manufactures out of business? |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 1:11:36 PM EDT
[#34]
I just looked at the final ruling again, and the only thing shown to not have to be serialized is a totally raw forging, a 0%, not an 80%. But, as I stated before, we'll know for sure in a week.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 1:53:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who makes there own gun has no business taking it to a gunsmith. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All lowers made by a manufacture for distribution or sale will have to be serialized. Private manufactured lowers do not require a sn. Anyone with a privately made lower will need a sn if they take it to a gunsmith for work. Anyone who makes there own gun has no business taking it to a gunsmith. The term "gunsmith" could include a company or individual that does anodizing or cerakoting. Many people who start with 80% receivers use these services. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 7:39:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like their requirements might make it close to impossible for an FFL to make a legal serial number on many guns. Given the very long serial numbers, and the minimum size of the lettering, how would they be expected to fit that on, for example, the small metal plate on a P80 frame? Engraving it on polymer is a no-no. Oops! 
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Posted: 8/17/2022 7:41:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The term "gunsmith" could include a company or individual that does anodizing or cerakoting. Many people who start with 80% receivers use these services. Ya I think it would include any entity that takes in a firearm for "work" regardless of what it consists of. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 10:36:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New Rule: All 80% lowers will be SN# 1 And once someone reports #1 as the serial number of a stolen receiver then every other one with that number will be considered stolen if LE runs a check on it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 11:16:16 AM EDT
[#39]
My supplier is all out of stock on any 80% blanks that they offered. Since the laws won't change anything, they have effectively put my supplier out of business illegally thru perceived threat of action.
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Posted: 8/18/2022 12:52:58 PM EDT
[#40]
The ruling is not clear. Here is a good brief video on some of the issues that the ATF is dealing with in their ruling.
Armed Scholar |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 1:47:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Per an email from New Frontier Armory today:
As of August 24th, all 80% lowers sold will need to be serialized and tracked as firearms. They could be wrong. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 2:03:22 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 8/18/2022 2:55:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Where is the lawsuit on this? I thought the EPA ruling determined rulemaking null and void?
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Posted: 8/18/2022 3:10:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is the lawsuit on this? I thought the EPA ruling determined rulemaking null and void? GOA is suing right now |
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Posted: 8/21/2022 12:09:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Hope the case is successful, gonna suck for all the new builders.
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Posted: 8/21/2022 12:31:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Clown World where you have to serialize a piece of aluminum.
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