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Posted: 6/29/2022 8:10:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First off, that gel is NOT the same as 10% ordnance gel. I know it is advertised as such but does not create the same wound channel as true mixed powder 10% ordnance gel. It offers less resistance to the bullet resulting in less expansion, less bullet damage, and deeper penetration. A considerable amount of effort was put into the realistic recreation of living tissue for terminal performance by the DoD and various LE agencies, and there is a reason the FBI uses 10% ordnance gel for their testing and does not recommend the Clear Ballistics stuff. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/09/clear-ballistics-gelatin-not-performing-like-real-ballistics-gelatin/ https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/ballistic-gelatin-comparisons-part-iii-IbjkEYB93TAd5o6J/ Second, that is a single bullet. Now try the same systems with the many available expanding cup&core bullets, as well as the other monolithics, and see how it goes. Spoiler alert because I've done the testing with the proper materials first-hand: Using a 1:5" twist significantly limits bullet selection if you care about terminal performance. This is ESPECIALLY true through barriers such as those used in the FBI protocol. If you don't care if a bullet that was designed for controlled consistent expansion behaves like a varmint bullet, then carry on. In the second link the clear block in the first pic clearly shows a BB calibration of around 3.74" which in the article the guy says exceeds FBI standards. But then goes on to says 2.95" to 3.74" is FBI specs. Not sure I understand that. I'm interested to see proof of your claim as far as 1:5 twist 300BO barrels go. You've done the testing, as you say, so show us the results. All you've submitted is an 8 year old article about clear ballistics and another showing the difference between synthetic and organic gelatin which is very contradictory. I want to learn. Teach me. Hell, you may actually change my mind. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 8:54:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Or look at it another way:
A super short barreled with 1/5 is a specialized role/application. Therefore, it is appropriate to use specialized bullets to maximize the terminal effect of this specialized weapon. Monolithic expanding/fracturing monos are just that. 1/5 wasn’t chosen randomly. Look at the 8.6blk with the 1/3 twist; expanding monos open faster and create larger permanent cavities with faster twist rates. There is a lot of information out there on this. But you’re correct in that conventional cup and core bullets are not optimal in this niche; and that’s okay. |
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Posted: 6/30/2022 10:42:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Specialized application and specialized bullets is a perfectly fine approach provided you're aware of the limitations as such.
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Posted: 7/5/2022 2:43:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Just to update my progress:
Again my barrel is the Faxon 6” 1/5. This barrel is terrible. I have now put 14 different loads through it and it is dinner plate accurate at 40 yards. I don’t see evidence of keyhole, just garbage groups… or rather patterns… I square every receiver before install, have assembled way over 100 uppers, 20 years experience hand-loading including wildcatting, etc etc, tried two muzzle devices, 3 different cans, and this barrel will simply NOT group. I contacted Faxon. I’m pissed. Could simply be a sample of one, but wow. By far the worst barrel I have experienced. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 7:03:57 PM EDT
[#5]
 Attached File Attached File Attached FileDO NOT SHOOT CAVITY BACK 195gr MKZ through a 1/5. Obviously the centrifugal force is causing the petals to open up in flight… good thing I tested this load with the baffles and end cap out of the can (used a Form 1 can). 190gd Sub X shoot real nice, as did a 220gr ELD-X load. 110gr Tac X shot terrible (proven load in my other blks) and some 150gr FMJ loads shot very well too. ETA: this is a KAK 6.25” “baby blonde” 1/5 barrel. I replaced the Faxon |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 12:29:44 PM EDT
[#6]
That's cool.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 1:12:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's cool. Not really. Would rather have them work normally. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 1:41:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Blackriver tactical has 1/5 barrels
hammer forged chrome lined https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/BRT-8-0-OPTIMUM-Hammer-Forged-Chrome-Lined-Barrel-300BLK-PDW-p440556374 |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 9:10:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blackriver tactical has 1/5 barrels hammer forged chrome lined https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/BRT-8-0-OPTIMUM-Hammer-Forged-Chrome-Lined-Barrel-300BLK-PDW-p440556374 Sweet |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:55:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/52686/101E3D05-2636-414B-B9BD-3C27005502FE_jpe-2464395.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/52686/E16E90B7-B1FE-456D-8EAF-97653F1D0067_jpe-2464396.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/52686/AE0AFF0A-E10C-4F17-AFAC-8BF41884794C_jpe-2464399.JPG DO NOT SHOOT CAVITY BACK 195gr MKZ through a 1/5. Obviously the centrifugal force is causing the petals to open up in flight… good thing I tested this load with the baffles and end cap out of the can (used a Form 1 can). 190gd Sub X shoot real nice, as did a 220gr ELD-X load. 110gr Tac X shot terrible (proven load in my other blks) and some 150gr FMJ loads shot very well too. ETA: this is a KAK 6.25” “baby blonde” 1/5 barrel. I replaced the Faxon As we spoke about on the phone we are adjusting the subs to run in a 1:5 twist. There should be a batch out soon. Thank you for the input. Robert |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 1:59:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Yup. Look forward to it
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