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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:07:32 PM EDT
[#1]
110gr TAC-TX. Subs are comparative poor performers. If it must be subs, 194gr Lehigh Defense is likely your best commercially available option.
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:09:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Look at Hornady sub x
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:17:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 110gr TAC-TX. Subs are comparative poor performers. If it must be subs, 194gr Lehigh Defense is likely your best commercially available option. First Poster Nails It, yet again. I was a sub for HD hold out but enough research has convinced me that’s a poor choice for HD. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:22:30 PM EDT
[#4]
I opted for the 110 gr TAC-TX through a 9.5" barrel suppressed in my home defense setup. I save the subsonics for plinking.
The only reason I can see to opt for a subsonic load is if you won't be running a suppressor and are concerned about your hearing. In that situation, though, I might just go with a pistol loaded with decent hollowpoints. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:33:22 PM EDT
[#5]
supers all the way for hd.
we have hornady tap subsonic for putting down deer. it does the job quietly. but for duty use we switch to supersonic |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:35:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Super = 110gr Vmax (or tac-tx if you want a barrier blind round)
Sub = 194 Lehigh |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:52:28 PM EDT
[#7]
I like the performance of the Lehigh bullets personally.
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Posted: 4/22/2020 1:04:14 AM EDT
[#8]
I hope you keep ear protection close to the 300 BLK pistol its going to be way louder than a 9mm or a .45 when it goes off inside a house.
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Posted: 4/22/2020 1:51:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope you keep ear protection close to the 300 BLK pistol its going to be way louder than a 9mm or a .45 when it goes off inside a house. https://imgur.com/gallery/fWzUcSf |
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Posted: 4/22/2020 6:12:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at Hornady sub x My highly unscientific water jug tests show better terminal ballistic performance from 194gr ME over 190gr SubX |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 2:35:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Can anyone chime in? I can’t find any real-world info or video about it...
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/ammo-300blk-120gr-sbr-solid-copper-blk-case-box-20.html |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 1:16:48 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 4/25/2020 8:36:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ARFCOM thread Sig has a 205gr subsonic polymer tipped “hunting” round that I’m going to stock up on. Looked that as well. They recommend the minimum barrel length at 9” but do not elaborate any further. I’d hate to buy boxes of the stuff only to realize it fails to expand after 10’ out of a 9” barrel. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 10:31:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looked that as well. They recommend the minimum barrel length at 9” but do not elaborate any further. I’d hate to buy boxes of the stuff only to realize it fails to expand after 10’ out of a 9” barrel. Hadn’t considered that. I’ve searched online for reviews and videos on this round but cannot find much. Nothing as far as testing. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 10:48:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hadn’t considered that. I’ve searched online for reviews and videos on this round but cannot find much. Nothing as far as testing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looked that as well. They recommend the minimum barrel length at 9” but do not elaborate any further. I’d hate to buy boxes of the stuff only to realize it fails to expand after 10’ out of a 9” barrel. Hadn’t considered that. I’ve searched online for reviews and videos on this round but cannot find much. Nothing as far as testing. Yeah, me too. The only vid I could find was a GandG review and it wasn’t in-depth, more like a simple introduction. The host fired off a single round of the 205gr into a gallon jug of water placed in front of a gel block using a under 9” barrel. Resulted in lead core separation from the copper jacket with what looked to be more like deformation than expansion. It was very unflattering (and hopefully unfair). All the written material seems to be simple copy/pasta manufacturer’s release statement or close variation thereof. I did end up buying three boxes of the stuff just to check out and have on hand. I think I’m going to try and make a gel block to check this stuff out with my 9” barrel. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 11:35:26 AM EDT
[#16]
This shit is so dumb I can't hardly stand it.
It is so easy to make expanding subsonic bullets. There must be a dozen bullets that will turn inside out in other calibers. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 12:15:49 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 4/25/2020 12:27:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 110gr TAC-TX. Subs are comparative poor performers. If it must be subs, 194gr Lehigh Defense is likely your best commercially available option. Agree 100% I did buy 5 boxes of Hornady Sub X, and will try them, maybe on a hog to see what happens. |
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Posted: 4/25/2020 9:43:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, me too. The only vid I could find was a GandG review and it wasn’t in-depth, more like a simple introduction. The host fired off a single round of the 205gr into a gallon jug of water placed in front of a gel block using a under 9” barrel. Resulted in lead core separation from the copper jacket with what looked to be more like deformation than expansion. It was very unflattering (and hopefully unfair). All the written material seems to be simple copy/pasta manufacturer’s release statement or close variation thereof. I did end up buying three boxes of the stuff just to check out and have on hand. I think I’m going to try and make a gel block to check this stuff out with my 9” barrel. Please do and post your findings. |
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Posted: 4/26/2020 1:07:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looked that as well. They recommend the minimum barrel length at 9” but do not elaborate any further. I’d hate to buy boxes of the stuff only to realize it fails to expand after 10’ out of a 9” barrel. I'm betting its more of a stabilization concern than an expansion concern. |
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Posted: 4/26/2020 1:12:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 110gr TAC-TX. Subs are comparative poor performers. If it must be subs, 194gr Lehigh Defense is likely your best commercially available option. Yup |
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Posted: 4/26/2020 1:38:19 AM EDT
[#22]
The 194g Lehigh is a wicked bullet.
I was shooting some with an emergency room RN who has treated his fair share of gun shot wounds. Shot the 194 into some water jugs and capture it. He looked at the recovered bullet and said "holy sh!t, that would be one Mf'er to get out of someone." That said, all one has to do is watch some of the videos floating around of cops shooting drugged up perps with their 9's and 40s multiple times and yet they keep coming. That's enough evidence for me to keep my bedside mag loaded with supers. |
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Posted: 4/26/2020 9:43:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looked that as well. They recommend the minimum barrel length at 9” but do not elaborate any further. I’d hate to buy boxes of the stuff only to realize it fails to expand after 10’ out of a 9” barrel. I revisited this issue tonight while mowing. I've got a 10.5" barrel and an 8" suppressor giving me roughly an effective 18.5". I'd be shooting my .300blk 99% if not 100% suppressed. So, I should be good here, right? |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 4:41:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I revisited this issue tonight while mowing. I've got a 10.5" barrel and an 8" suppressor giving me roughly an effective 18.5". I'd be shooting my .300blk 99% if not 100% suppressed. So, I should be good here, right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looked that as well. They recommend the minimum barrel length at 9” but do not elaborate any further. I’d hate to buy boxes of the stuff only to realize it fails to expand after 10’ out of a 9” barrel. I revisited this issue tonight while mowing. I've got a 10.5" barrel and an 8" suppressor giving me roughly an effective 18.5". I'd be shooting my .300blk 99% if not 100% suppressed. So, I should be good here, right? I’m really not the person that could/should answer that. It does say recommended minimum 9” barrel so I’d only guess “Yeah”. |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 5:04:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I revisited this issue tonight while mowing. I've got a 10.5" barrel and an 8" suppressor giving me roughly an effective 18.5". I'd be shooting my .300blk 99% if not 100% suppressed. So, I should be good here, right? A suppressor usually only adds around ~2% more velocity and does nothing to aid bullet stabilization. Even with a longer barrel, with 300 subsonic, there really isn't that much to gain in a longer barrel with the fast burning powders used. Too much more velocity, then you start creeping into supersonic speed. Again, I think their minimum barrel length has more to do with proper bullet stabilization, rather than getting enough velocity for proper expansion. |
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Posted: 4/27/2020 6:12:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks swampvol.
Good explanation. I learned something. |
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Posted: 5/1/2020 3:20:07 AM EDT
[#27]
I had bought some of the Hornady, it had trouble sometimes in feeding due to the wide nose, I never have trouble with BTHP but they are much more pointed. It expanded somewhat- kind of as expected- in water, so better than a BTHP designed for 2500 FPS, but is worthless since it will not feed reliably.
So make sure you extensively test whatever you choose to use. Regardless, subsonic is going to behave like a pistol bullet and not a rifle bullet in the amount of damage it does. The super idea is probably a better route if you have a can on the gun. |
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Posted: 5/13/2020 12:02:52 PM EDT
[#28]
190 Sub X is one of, if not the most accurate subsonic 300 BLK loads and is a true 1 MOA at 100 yards accuracy type load for subsonic. All the rest of the factory sub loads vary quite a bit in accuracy.
Reliability in feeding for some fatter 300 BLK bullet profiles is fixed with a 300 BLK PMAG or 300 BLK Lancer mag. Hornady has been designing their expanding bullets for consistency of expansion and penetration in gel with 150% or greater expanded diamer, regardless of clothing or light barriers. The SubX is in that same wheelhouse... consistent average terminal performance. It expands fairly consistently as far as you would ever dare to shoot it, even through clothing, thick fur, or light barriers with 16-20" penetration, but is not the most expansion you can get at all costs on bare gel/thin skinned animals and not a 12-16" ideal self defense performer. On the flip side, its so accurate, head shots are a breeze if you know your dope. For center mass, I think good 9mm subsonic 147 9mm hollowpoints have the edge in terminal performance. |
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Posted: 5/14/2020 9:52:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL: 190 Sub X is one of, if not the most accurate subsonic 300 BLK loads and is a true 1 MOA at 100 yards accuracy type load for subsonic. All the rest of the factory sub loads vary quite a bit in accuracy. Reliability in feeding for some fatter 300 BLK bullet profiles is fixed with a 300 BLK PMAG or 300 BLK Lancer mag. Hornady has been designing their expanding bullets for consistency of expansion and penetration in gel with 150% or greater expanded diamer, regardless of clothing or light barriers. The SubX is in that same wheelhouse... consistent average terminal performance. It expands fairly consistently as far as you would ever dare to shoot it, even through clothing, thick fur, or light barriers with 16-20" penetration, but is not the most expansion you can get at all costs on bare gel/thin skinned animals and not a 12-16" ideal self defense performer. On the flip side, its so accurate, head shots are a breeze if you know your dope. For center mass, I think good 9mm subsonic 147 9mm hollowpoints have the edge in terminal performance. Where did you come up with that assessment? Not challenging you-sincerely want to learn/know more. I'm seeking a solid, subsonic, round to stack deep. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 3:29:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Alright, my first attempt at making ballistics gel. This is a sample )approx 1”x4” diameter) skimmed from the top of the container while the rest blooms. Seems ok but I haven’t any prior experience to draw from. I inserted a quarter into the sample.
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Posted: 5/18/2020 2:09:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Round completely separated. Jacket separated from the core. Did recover a piece of the jacket and polymer tip. I’m happy there was deformation but was really hoping for controlled expansion.
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Posted: 5/18/2020 2:25:53 PM EDT
[#32]
I am with others. For the best performance Barnes 110 gr TAC-TX is one of the best. If you really set on using subsonic I will tell you to give Maker Bullets 220 gr REX bullet a try. They pricey especially if you are not a reloader and have to buy it as loaded ammo but the performance is excellent.
 This bullet recovered from a dirt backstop had completely opened in the span of a 12 oz Gatorade bottle of water. 30 cal hole going in, dull broad head size exit hole. 100 % weigh retention.   This one was fired into a line of 1 gallon milk jugs full of water. Launched at ~1050 fps 50 yards to the jugs. It split the first two wide open. Ragged hole through the third and was found in the fourth milk jug. 100 % weigh retention. I have shot a heap of up-armored o'possums (armadillos) with these bullets and it sounds like hitting a truck tire with a hammer from my suppressed 9-inch AR. Does bad things to them. Still not as good a supers but if I was set on using subs for self-defense this is the bullet I would be using. |
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Posted: 5/18/2020 2:37:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By calviroman: 110gr TAC-TX. Subs are comparative poor performers. If it must be subs, 194gr Lehigh Defense is likely your best commercially available option. This. It's a rifle. Shoot rifle rounds. If you want to shoot bullets that are no more energetic than pistol rounds you can sling quiet 147-230gr HST or GDHP all day long from a handgun that's 5X lighter and 3X smaller and 2X the cheaper AND still have a free hand. And if you're stubborn enough to want to shoot crappy pistol ballistics from a rifle-sized gun, just shoot a pistol caliber AR with infinite selection of expanding self defense bullets at 1/4 the cost of self defense .300blk subsonic loads. |
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Posted: 5/18/2020 3:05:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chowser: supers all the way for hd. Yep, or otherwise, just use your Glock 17 with +P+ Rangers. |
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Posted: 5/18/2020 4:53:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: This. It's a rifle. Shoot rifle rounds. If you want to shoot bullets that are no more energetic than pistol rounds you can sling quiet 147-230gr HST or GDHP all day long from a handgun that's 5X lighter and 3X smaller and 2X the cheaper AND still have a free hand. And if you're stubborn enough to want to shoot crappy pistol ballistics from a rifle-sized gun, just shoot a pistol caliber AR with infinite selection of expanding self defense bullets at 1/4 the cost of self defense .300blk subsonic loads. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: Originally Posted By calviroman: 110gr TAC-TX. Subs are comparative poor performers. If it must be subs, 194gr Lehigh Defense is likely your best commercially available option. This. It's a rifle. Shoot rifle rounds. If you want to shoot bullets that are no more energetic than pistol rounds you can sling quiet 147-230gr HST or GDHP all day long from a handgun that's 5X lighter and 3X smaller and 2X the cheaper AND still have a free hand. And if you're stubborn enough to want to shoot crappy pistol ballistics from a rifle-sized gun, just shoot a pistol caliber AR with infinite selection of expanding self defense bullets at 1/4 the cost of self defense .300blk subsonic loads. Along with being more accurate, I get faster follow-up with my PDW than with my handgun by virtue of more points-of-contact. I had a passing interest in PCC pistols but having a 300BO offers much more versatility overall plus no need to buy another firearm. If I want full power Supers, I have them. If I want low recoil Subs, I have them. It begins where they max out - *pound for pound* it offered me more in a compact firearm. Quality ammo cost is almost moot since decent HD/Duty 9mm ammo runs about .80¢ per round whereas 300BO can be around $1.15 per with fodder for even way less. It boiled down to what offered me more options. |
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