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Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 5/17/2023 6:52:15 PM EDT
Does anyone know if this ammunition is suitable for indoor self defense (that is low penetration of walls?)

Or if the plain Winchester USA 5.56x45mm NATO 55 grain Ball (M193) ammo will do for this?

Do I need to go to a specialty varmint round?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/17/2023 7:57:05 PM EDT
[#1]
I can't speak for this particular round, but, the truth is, that any projectile capable of sufficient penetration in a human body to reach vital organs after passing through barriers, including arms, hands, shoulders, or odd angled shots, is also going to be capable of penetrating household walls to a dangerous degree. This includes all rifle and all pistol rounds that meet or exceed the FBI's minimum penetration testing.

If you want a good defensive round, you're going to have to accept that it will be capable of what you are seeking to avoid.

Pick the best defensive round you can afford, load it in your mags, and deal with it. Either that or pick up a club.
Link Posted: 5/18/2023 9:36:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Shot placement is what matters and shooting multiple times until the desired affect happens. Molon will drop in here with the fbi gel test stuff, someone will scream 77gr. A buddy shot a home intruder with 77gr and the guy ran off. Great round bad shot placement, so he was able to run off. I had 55gr vmax loaded when I lived in an apartment because of the penetration worries. You have 3 types of shots, switches, timers and misses. Be more worried about shot placement and knowing your in the house hold overs. Work on shooting 3in dots in close 5-10yds.
Link Posted: 5/18/2023 6:15:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Hmmm...  

Federal Premium LE Tactical TRU 55-grain Sierra GameKing BTHP:

Designed especially for use in the AR-type rifle, Federal’s Tactical TRU ammunition features several bullet variants, including the 55-grain Hi-Shok SP and Nosler Ballistic Tip. Particularly well-suited for home defense, the 55-grain Sierra GameKing BTHP (boattail hollow-point) carries a velocity of 2,815 fps and a penetration depth of 11.25 inches in bare gelatin of 11 inches through heavy clothing. Excelling in the FBI testing protocol, the BTHP penetrates 12.5 inches in wallboard, which is significantly less than other bonded soft points that may travel up to 18 inches. The BTHP is designed for rapid expansion and fragmentation, causing massive wound trauma on target without overpenetration. As a result, this cartridge is a great round for home or personal defense in highly populated urban settings.

Now this above is what I'm talking about.
Link Posted: 5/18/2023 6:23:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Is Frontier ammo still blowing up guns?

I'm actually shocked they didn't change the name/marketing/packaging.
Link Posted: 5/19/2023 4:33:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hmmm...  

Federal Premium LE Tactical TRU 55-grain Sierra GameKing BTHP:

Designed especially for use in the AR-type rifle, Federal’s Tactical TRU ammunition features several bullet variants, including the 55-grain Hi-Shok SP and Nosler Ballistic Tip. Particularly well-suited for home defense, the 55-grain Sierra GameKing BTHP (boattail hollow-point) carries a velocity of 2,815 fps and a penetration depth of 11.25 inches in bare gelatin of 11 inches through heavy clothing. Excelling in the FBI testing protocol, the BTHP penetrates 12.5 inches in wallboard, which is significantly less than other bonded soft points that may travel up to 18 inches. The BTHP is designed for rapid expansion and fragmentation, causing massive wound trauma on target without overpenetration. As a result, this cartridge is a great round for home or personal defense in highly populated urban settings.

Now this above is what I'm talking about.
View Quote


The minimum requirement for FBI standards in ballistic gel is 12 inches. To me, that's not enough. The minimum being 12 inches, with the max being 18 inches, somewhere in the middle is better if your intention is hitting vitals to stop an attack quickly. Personally, I want an exit hole if possible. You have to understand you may have to shoot through barriers, and then penetrate the body at an odd angles, and 11-12 inches isn't enough, and really anything in between 12" and 18" isn't.

Shot placement is king, but, you're not going to get the bad guy to stand still and pose for you. He's going to be moving around, and you better be moving around too, unless you have a good position with cover, if you don't want to get shot. You have to pick a bullet that will do the job and then some, and understand that there will always be dangers involved when shooting inside a building where there are other occupants.

One of the best things you can do is to have things planned out , where no matter where someone breaks in at, you can have a good probability of getting in an offset position, where you're firing away from your family, but that they are also firing away from them. Think of it as a triangle, with the bad guy at the top, you on one side, and your family on the other side. You should be able to pre-plan for some of that. but of course there's situations where you can't.

I'm lucky in that I live in a brick home, and it has some brick inner walls, with the bedrooms being protected from the kitchen / dinning room by it. I pretty much stay in the dining area most of the day. My setup is easy, in that my most probable areas of entry are not towards family. My back door is on my left side, about 60ft away,  and my front door is almost across from me but where you can't see it, but I can fire through a sliding glass door that opens to the hallway and living room. The other primary access is a patio door about 5ft to my right, and I've got my AR mounted on the wall on two guitar wall hangers pointed in that direction, 6 inches from the wall, where all I have to do is flip the safety and reach up and start pulling the trigger ( if I'm surprised or asleep on the couch ), and I have my pistol 2ft from me under on a shelf under my laptop. I sleep in this room btw.

The brick wall is between me and the hallway to the bedrooms and master bath, which all on my right. My son stays in the master bedroom at the far end of the hallway, with both his pistol and rifle near his bed, and he can fire down the hallway if the attacker was to make it into the hallway, without fear of hitting me, because he can't shoot into this room without going through the brick wall.

Now, like I said, depending on the layout and construction of your home, the number and usual location of family members, it may be easier or harder to figure out how to plan for some of it, and there will always be situations you can't plan for, but you can plan for some of it.
Link Posted: 5/19/2023 7:24:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Here's how the 55 HP performs in gelatin from a 16":

Frontier® Cartridge | Hornady® Bullet Performance Gel Testing


The shot for the HP didn't look so great whether because of hitting the side of the block or not. The SP has great wounding potential but penetration is lacking. FMJ is the way to go if I had to choose from the three presented.
Link Posted: 5/21/2023 9:37:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here's how the 55 HP performs in gelatin from a 16":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVa_I3YdCzc

The shot for the HP didn't look so great whether because of hitting the side of the block or not. The SP has great wounding potential but penetration is lacking. FMJ is the way to go if I had to choose from the three presented.
View Quote



Further distances from the target, or shorter barrels than tested ( lower impact velocity ) will have more penetration, and down to the minimal design velocity of the projectile, will expand fully on the soft points. Of course, in a home, you're limited to distances based on your home design. I'm limited inside my home to usually half the width of the home, so we're talking 16ft, not much difference in most of the h9ouse, with 33ft being a rare shot in one room and in one section besides that. Lengthwise, because of the layout and it being a ranch style home, my max distance would be 75ft, the kitchen area ( from lunch area at the brick inside wall ), to into the den on the far end. Those Hornady Spire Points / soft points get a few more inches of penetration with outstanding for weight, caliber, and cost expansion.

My cheap HD load is the Hornady #2266 Spire Point 55gr, with cannelure, at 3100fps from a 16" barrel ( hand loads ). They're listed as varmint rounds, when used in a .22-250 or something like that, but at 3100fps, they penetrate better.

My other go to HD is Israeli Razorcore 77gr SMK Mk 262 clone. I've got to finish loading all the 55gr stuff I have, then I'm going to move to a heavier projectile, probably the SGK 77gr loaded as close to 2800fps as I can get.


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