I have an idea what the ballistics of a 9mm through an AR9/PCC with a 16" barrel at 100 yards. I noticed some scopes or prism scopes have drop points for shooting 9mm to 200 yards.

What are ballistics like at 200 yards for 9mm through the referred to firearm? Feet per second when using 115/124gr ammo and feet per second with 147gr ammo?

9mm by the inch

30 yd zero at speer 124gr

36 inches low at 200 yd.


ETA corrected fps

124 gr Fed  +P+ is 1450 fps  at muzzle w/ 16 in.

Actually, I'm trying to learn what the fps is after it travels 200 yards.

Go buy various ammo you want to test.

Set a chronograph out on a range at 200yards.

Shoot ammo through chronograph.

Report back here with numbers you get.


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That's going to depend on the Ballistic Coefficient or BC of the particular bullet you are using.

Round nose bullets are going to have a higher BC and lose less velocity than a flat nosed or hollow point bullet.

Tell me what bullet you are wanting to use and I can give you a pretty good idea of its 200 yard velocity and drop.

This is with a handloaded 147gr HST and I don't recall where I got the BC info, but it was accurate when I was shooting steel at 300 yards.  25 yard zero, 8" AR9.

Easy enough to calculate, but one would need to know what the velocity is at the muzzle.

If …1450 fps at the muzzle …. Then
1127 ft per sec a 100.     X
949 ft per sec at 200    25.9 in drop from 100 yd zero.
846 ft per sec at 300     90.2 in drop from 100 yd zero

9mm PCC and 22 LR have very similar flight ballistics.  Both can be shot at 200 yards all day long with about the same drop.

Impressive. Thanks.

I didn't know anyone fired 300 yards away with 9mm PCCs.

Get a red dot or low power scope with this.

And you'll be ringing 200 yard Gongs all day

Thanks.

One of the manufacturer's 2.5X prism scope got a good review for PCCs.

The barrel in that SBR is exceptionally accurate.  I was getting 9/10 hits on an 18" steel plate at 300 with no magnification, just using holdover.

Thanks for all the posts.

You can use the Federal ballistic calculator to find that velocity (factory ammo) - Federal Ballistic Calculator

Just beware. 9mm Ballistic coefficients are quite velocity dependsnt and do very goofy things as they transition to subsonic.  It actually can shoot you BC up way high, then.
And if shooting a carbine, will almost always go through that transition, usually around 15 to 50 yards.  Inconsistency in velocity will cause inconsistency in that transition distance, which will show up on paper at the extended ranges.  I've found 9mm not so easy to predict so good by most Ballistic calculators, because getting that BC profile across the velocity spectrum ot will have in flight, is rare.

But give it a shot!

Interesting post.

It was tricky.  I tried doing lab-radar traces to back-calc BC's, and it was just weird, where near the speed of sound the BC's just went crazy, up to almost 1.0 level.  Well, I say that, but LabRadar data can lead you to some goofy conclusions that probably aren't true at all, you have to be careful trying to back out BC's from that rig, and eventually I just quite, because two different seemingly similar traces, will back out 20-50% different BC's at times.  

But even from Sierra and other manufacturers posted data, there's a different BC subsonic than supersonic.  Looking up 9mm BC's will drive you mad, because seemingly the same 9mm bullet will have a .12 BC from Manufacture A, and a .30 BC from manufacture B. (or something like that)  I used to think total BS, but I think it actually has to do with what velocity they tested it at.  

9mm MV tends to be only a bit above supersonic, and the big fat bullets all transition to subsonic pretty quick. Where it gets double-tricky is as temperature and conditions of the day and setting vary, the distance place where that transition happens, varies.  Your actual Muzzle Velocity can vary for all kinds of reasons too, and that variation matters more with 9mm shooting at range, than a typical rifle, is what I found.   And so a bullet that transitions to subsonic at 40 yards, has a very different BC during it's flight from 30-40 yards, than one that transitioned at 30 yards.  Which translates to an exaggeratedly different point of impact at 200 yards for something like a 9mm bullet.  Of all the things I've done BC calc's on, 9mm has actually been one of the trickiest for me.

basically, with 9mm, you use the calculator to get close as you can. Fire a few shots, and where the hold starts hitting, just hold that - and keep shooting.  It can change by 6" easy, from day to day at 200 yards, and by 1 foot even, pretty easy - same gun, same ammo, different day.  All of which makes it all the more fun!

That's really all it is for, get close enough to be on target and then verify. I did that with my Scorpion + PA 1x Cyclop Prism to get on the MGM B/C zone steel target (basically 1/2 size IPSC target). 9mm isn't something made for precision shooting at 200 yds but once dialed in, the 115 gr S&B hits very consistently.

Hold points are going to vary.

For example, I have an AR-15 carbine with a 16” ballistic advantage barrel, and with hand loaded 115 gr HAP or XTP bullet, the max load of HS-6 will launch them at an average velocity of 1525 fps and produce 2 MOA groups at 200 yards off a rest.  

It has a Burris 332 on it and when zeroed for 115 yards, the near zero is 30 yards and the  max mid range trajectory is 2.1” high at 75 yards.

The first dot below center is 3.3 MOA and that’s zeroed at 147 yards, on a standard temperature and pressure day.

The second dot below center is 6.1 MOA and is zeroed at 172 yards.

The third dot is 9.6 MOA and that works out to 197 yards.

They make great hold points for 150, 175, and 200 yards.


However Remington 115 gr FMJ range ammo isn’t loaded all that hot and only averages 1326 fps in the same carbine.

With a 125 yard zero the near zero is about 22 yards, the max mid range trajectory is 3.7” at 75 yards and the hold points are 150 yards, 170 yards and 195 yards. Still very usable, you just have to extend the zero range slightly.

The 115 gr HAP or XTPs in my MP5 launch at 1350 fps in 8.3” 9mm AR, and it has a trajectory almost identical to the Remington loads in the 16” barrel.

In all three cases the hold points are close enough for minute of plate shooting to 200 yards.

BC varies a lot by velocity, especially in the transonic range.  For example a .22 LR will shed supersonic velocity quickly where the drag is very high, and then retain velocity much better once it’s sub sonic.  Nearly all pistol bullets operate the same way.  If you are in the transonic range of about .9 to 1.2 Mach you are not going to get the same BC as if you were measuring the BC with velocities entirely below the speed of sound.

But on the other hand, typical pistol bullets have low BCs in the .1 to .2 range. Changes in BC make a lot less difference in the trajectory than you’d think at those low BCs.

Yep.

It actually can be done with a very good ballistics calculator *IF* you have a highly accurate high resolution BC matrix as a function of velocity.  In general, that's impossible to get.  Most bullets don't have a BC at all that's published.  Trying to use LabRadar trace data to back out a spectrum of velocity range BC's didn't work at all.

But a good calculator fed the right MV and weather, in theory, should project the flight and adjust BC as the velocity changes.  To date, I have not been able to master this - but I think it can be done.  Strelok is quite good and allows a matrix of 5 BC's even - (though no instruction on just how to enter them)

I will agree that .22LR flight ballistics and 9mm flight ballistics are surprisingly similar.

FWIW, I bought thousands of cheap 115 gr FMJ hollow-back bullets.  These would be 124 gr profile FMJ's, but with only enough lead in them to be 115 gr bullets.  They were cheap.

Here's what I'm using in Strelok to match my impact behavior for a 1186 fps MV:

Velocity  BC
1400   .125
1125   .125
960     .142
850     .1
0         .1


that matches my apparent 18 yd zero, 100 yard zero, and 25 yard impact 1.7" offset that I got.

Really good posts in here, thanks. I, too, ran into some weird shit trying to find BCs with Labradar and 9mm.

Hey @chevrofreak what app is that that provided the reticle impact data?

If you want to shoot pistol-things longer distances... just shoot 300BLK subsonic.

147gr 9mm HST @1100FPS with 25/65 zero loses:
~100FPS/4.5" at 100 yards
~175FPS/42.3" at 200 yards
~240FPS/123" at 300 yards

A 220gr 300BLK @ 1050FPS with 23/75yd zero loses:
~35FPS/3.2" at 100 yards
~70FPS/37.4" at 200 yards
~100FPS/108" at 300 yards
(yes, at 300+ yards the BLK subs are still hitting with .45+P weights/energies)

Those long skinny high BC 200+ gr .30cal pills lose WAY less velocity than short-blunt 9mm, have ~20% less drop, carry a lot more mass & sectional density, do wonderful things tumbling through gel, and it suppresses much more quietly.  And then whenever you want, you can stick in a mag full of 110gr ballistic tip ammo that does REAL-rifle frag-nasty things out to 300-400 yards like an intermediate rifle should.  9mm PCC/SMG/PDW should really only be a consideration for logistical/price reasons anymore... and even then really only for CQB distances where the performance gap isn't yet that significant.  There's a reason 9mm SMGs aren't issued to frontline troops in large numbers and all of this post are the reasons .300BLK was invented to replace the 123 year old cartridge in pretty much all PCC/PDW roles.

Strelok Pro.  It is a Russian app, so not available anymore.

@Millennial

I never priced .300 ammo but my strong hunch is its much more expensive than 9mm.

Sub's, especially so.  If you don't handload it can get expensive.

Ah damnit. Yeah, I run Strelok. i really want to get Pro. Annoyingly you can download Strelok from his website and sideload it but Pro isnt available.

as he said, 9mm  is usually chosen over .300 for reasons other than performance. I, myself, chose 9mm. In my use, it’s for less expensive and less loud training on close targets. Since I have the luxury of more than one gun, it’s a good training analog.

Launching bullets at distant targets with it is pointlessly satisfying, for me, and I’m glad to see others doing the same. If dollars and risk of accidental chambering aren’t concerns, then .300AAC or .338 Specter are better in every way.