I’ve been out of the game for a while due to long hours but I’m back in the saddle and making time for training and builds now. My background is prs competions/ precision rifle. Anyway, my new project is going to be taking as many practical carbine classes as I can. Every weekend I can. The goal for the build is to have a general purpose rifle for the southeast. I have over 300 acres and there are areas where 650+yard shots on deer or varmint could be possible.

Anyway, feel free to add any input - critique - thought - recommendations - insight - poop flinging. The more the better.

Component list:
Barrel- Rainier Ultra-match 12” Mid-length
Rail- 10.5” Daniel Defense R3
Upper- VLTOR MUR no forward assist
BCG and Bolt- Lantac enhanced
Gas block: Geissele gas block .750”
Gas tube: BRT: mid length tube for the equivalent of a .062 gas port size
Charging Handle- radian raptor sd
Optics: Leupold mark 5 3.6-18 with piggyback t2
Mount- spuhr 5616
Lower- LWRC di ambi lower
Trigger- Geissele ssae
Buffer- JP SCS
Stock- reptilia recce

I like the big scope on the little gun thing.

My go to in years past for a general purpose rifle has been 14.5” P&W with some 16” thrown in. Once I add a suppressor which has been a TBAC dominus sr, they start feeling like a musket and I find myself not taking a rifle around with me on the farm or being enthused about training as much.

I have a NF ATACR 1-8 as well as an eotech vudu 1-10 I can use should the Leupold mark 5 3.6-18 not work out

When I say general purpose, it truly means general purpose.

It will see use riding around on the tractor on the farm, on the side by side, on the skid steer, walking around, coyote hunting, deer hunting, hog hunting, training classes, I’m sure I’ll do 2 gun comps too

It will be paired with an 11.5” rifle also. Once I have both of these setups ready and they workout for my uses and I’m having fun with them. I’ll start cleaning out all my old stuff and getting rid of whatever it is I end up not settling with

My next setup will be:

Barrel- Rainier Select 11.5” carbine length gas
Rail- 10.5” Daniel Defense R3
Upper- VLTOR MUR no forward assist
BCG and Bolt- Lantac enhanced
Gas block: Geissele gas block .750”
Gas tube: BRT: carbine length tube for the equivalent of a .055 gas port size
Charging Handle- radian raptor sd
Optics: ta02 Acog Horse shoe led reticle with piggyback t2
Lower- LWRC di ambi lower
Trigger- Geissele ssae
Buffer- JP SCS
Stock- reptilia recce

I have a couple thousand rounds of factory ammo of various flavors of 77 smk ammo. A couple hundred 73 eld-m. I’m stocked up on 77 tmk and 73 eld m for hand loads so that’s the only type of ammo this will see for reference

I have a 3.6-18 for a 16” because it makes sense over LPVOs.

I'd make the barrel at least 14.5 if you're putting on a MK5HD.  get some more velocity

There is no perfect scope but the mk5 3.6-18 does make a lot of sense to me for a general purpose ar especially with precision or distance in mind.

With 77tmk’s, a range finder and a kestrel, I want to feel confident out to 500 yards and in. I like the tall piggyback t2

Who knows, I may go back to the vudu or atacr. I actually have two at act’s they are excellent

I have a Geissele super duty in 16” but it becomes a musket with the TBAC dominus.


I just prefer a shorter carbine that most here Attached File
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I ordered the barrel and waiting for it to arrive. I do have a labradar so I’ll post up velocity as well as sd and es with: norma 77 grain otm, Sierra gmm 77 grain, Hornady 73 eld m

I am all in on the 12” mid length idea but I can always order a 14.5” if I don’t get enough velocity to make it to 500 with precision

Already have this for when I feel like dragging a boat anchor around. Not the handiest for walking around the farm. Would like to keep it short and handy

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I've run a lot of different builds, but certainly not all of them.   Since you asked for critique - here's mine:

As someone who recently upgraded from a 10.5" to an 11.5" - I have to admit, I kind of hate it.  All the cool kids are saying 11.5 and 12.5 is the hotness now, because 10.5s are just too weak and loud.   Here's my own take - I don't agree with any of that shit At ALL.  There is a noticeable and significant handling difference going from a 10.5 up to 11.5, and I can only imagine moreso going to 12.5.  10.5 is the minimum BBL to keep 5.56 hitting hard - I do agree.  But 10.5" is long enough that for CQB - it hits very hard.  I run mine out to 200 yards all the time, and it hits that steel pretty darned hard - and quick.  My take is if you want the most compact 5.56 that still hits stuff hard and is good for CQB and other shorter distances - 10.5 does the job just fine, and is hand Handy HANDY!  Discard the suppressor and invest in ear-pro, run that sucker as a crazy-handy 10.5.

If you want more ballistics, then step up to a 16" and KISS and run a light weight barrel profile.  I suppose you could 14.5 pin and weld, if you want to taper the length some.  But IMHO, 12.5 is a lot of screwing around, and IMHO I think is way oversold.  Personally, I say the 11.5/12.5 it's the .40 caliber of barrel lengths: promised to be the best parts of 9mm and .45 combined into one.  When in actuality, it's the worst parts of those 2, combined into one; giving an overall dissatisfying clunky experience where it no longer is as light and handy, but it still didn't really hit any materially harder.   But then, I don't screw with suppressors, and so if that's the plan, that's already a 16"+ sized package, so % delta of just 1 more inch maybe isn't as much or as noticable of a handling change, now that you have this huge 6"+ bulb of metal on the end anyway.

That's my take and going to be Fight'n Words for most folks - but my take is just go 10.5.  Or go 14.5 P&W (or really, 16" Gunner profile).  

Also, remove and discard that grossly overlength muzzle device.  Why everyone wants 3" long muzzle devices after all the handwringing on barrel length just blows my mind.   The A2 is the maximum acceptable muzzle device dimension, not the minimum.  

On a final note, I'm not into long handguards.  More mass.  I don't hold a gun past middy-length, so I stop my handguards there, and in most 14.5 and 16" builds that means an exposed middy gas-block - which is just how I like it.  Easy to get to for maintenance, and keeps the whole gun light and sleek.  

Only exception to my own 12" disdane - make it in 6.5 Grendel and you have the ultimate most compact power machine there is.  That little 12" guy in Grendel is a 600 yard capable gun with 1000 ft-lb impact energy out to 100 yards plus, in a package that's crazy-tiny.  Grendel burn and pressure profile and bullet weight make it sing really nice in a 12" - that's an optimized length for a compact Grendel and there's a reason that was the standard offering when one could get a Brace-kit.  In my secret volcano island lair - my Henchmen and Bikini-Clad guard babes are all getting issued 12" Grendel's.

(obviously my preferences - but hey, you asked!  If this is a bit much - happy to delete)

Regarding glass, my own preference is KISS.  I generally run a low power fixed, like a 2.5x CQB or 4x ACOG.  My priority is light, simple, can be banged around, never on the wrong adjustment setting, and 2.5x is plenty of glass out to 300 yards all day long - while also hosting great light transmission in the critical Dusk time frame.  Gives a huge field of view (which I value afield) and low enough to still be good at CQB.    The glass on your photo is far too large and bulky for a field gun IMHO.  And usually more delicate.  And most LPVO choices are rather heavy and have tiny front bells that don't let in so much of that critical Dusk light.

Just MHO, of course..

I would suggest an 11.5 rail for your 12.5. FCD makes one, CMT also. I also think the scope is probably overkill on that rifle—either LPVO would be good to go in my book.

I really like mine.

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Maybe next time I see these guys I’ll have my 12” ar ready instead of the trusty bolt action

I’ve been out of the game for a while other than hunting so I need to do a refresher on all the new parts available now.

I’ve already got the 10.5” DD RISIII ordered for the 12” ultra match rainier barrel.

Might try a different rail the 11.5”

I think you'll be fine with a 10.5. This is my 10.5" rail on an 11.5" barrel.it looks like you'll wind up with about 1 1/4" of gap between the handguard and muzzle device (depending on manufacturer and ACTUAL lengths.

Edit: You keep saying 12". Is it an actual 12" (as in, not 12.5)? If so, I definitely would stick to the 10.5" handguard. That should give you like 3/4" of gap. 11.5 would probably be too short if it's actually an even 12.

https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-ultramatch-mod2-223-wylde-barrel-12-satin/

Yes. 12” mid length. I’ve had good luck with rainier ultra match before. I’ve tried craddock, cle, white oak, seekins. Wilson combat, proof, criterion and rainier shot ultra match shot the best for me

If 650 yard deer shots are a consideration then a 556 isn’t in the cards.

If you change that to 300 yards, then 556 is more viable.

I am building a 12.5 general purpose (GP) rifle right now too, after having easily over 100 different rifle/upper configurations over 20 years.

Our purposes are basically the same, except for the aforementioned 650 yard deer requirement, as I see that as a non-starter for 556.

My philosophy is to keep it light and handy. I am using a Fortis light weight lower with V7 small parts, and a MFT minimalist stock. Upper is a slick side (no forward assist) with V7 port door. Handguard is a V7 hiperlight 11.1”. I am using a Hodge 12.5” continuous taper profile barrel and a low mass carrier with an adjustable gas block. The can is a Form 1 build, 6” x 1.625 with titanium tube and 17-4 internals using a cherry bomb muzzle device and plan B adapter. The can with adapter is 13oz.

Optics will be a Delta Stryker 1-6 because it is 17oz and great glass with daylight bright dot. An alternative would be the Primary Arms PLC 1-8 for the same weight. Mounted in a Reptilia mount.

The entire package complete with can, optics etc will be 7lbs.

Your plan of the big glass and some of the other components will just result in a shorter 9lb gun which in my opinion detracts from the point of a compact GP carbine.

You are going to need a lot more than a 10.5" barrel.  And perhaps more case capacity....

I didn’t phrase that the right way.

I have 650+ yards shots I can use for training at my land

I have plenty of shots I can take on deer 50 yards and in

I have never shot a deer with a 223 but I’ve shot over 50 deer with 6.5 creed, 308, and 7 mag

I think a 223 would do in a pinch for a neck or head shot just fine

Personal opinion?  That’s a lot of scope for a 12.5” 5.56 gun.  I shoot my 11.5” out to 600ish yds on man size targets with an 8x optic without too much issue.

I’d recommend something smaller/lighter to keep things handy.

I see. PA PLC 1-8 is 17oz. That would do you fine.

You don’t even need to shoot in the head or neck, normal vitals shot is fine provided you’re using a proper bullet and within reasonable range.

If you want some good reading Google the rockslide forum 77gr TMK bear. A years long thread that’s still going of big game kills with 223.

I have gone with some heavy components on this one.

The DD RIS3 is not the lightest rail out there

The vltor Mur upper is a little heavy

The mark 5 weighs 26 ounces

The spuhr mount is heavier than other mounts

The rainier is about 1 pound and ten ounces

JP SCS is heavy

Thr aimpoint t2 is heavier than an rmr by a few ounces

I Know it all adds up

I’ll see how it feels in hand

I am still ordering components for my 11.5” build that will have an Acog and t2

I may go with a lighter rail and lighter upper. I’m just such a huge fan of the vltor mur and the dd r3 it’s hard to move away from them

Will this qualify for the mini recce thread?

Ever come across the remains of a dead deer with the jaw shot off, that obviously staved to death in great pain?  I shudder whenever I read this shit.  

The Speer 70 grain semi-spitzer is a damn good bullet, within reasonable distance, when properly placed just behind the front leg

I’ve seen a lot of dumb shit. I’ve seen a lot of dumb people.

I’ve got plenty of hunting rifles that I will use for lung / heart shots. I feel confident in my abilities 50 yards and in with 223 for a head or neck shot.