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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:04:41 PM EDT
What is the interest level in a 4 groove, 1-14 twist stainless "Winchester" 601 barrel?
We would install a standard FSB & slip ring assembly on a production barrel. Any details we should consider? 
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:14:20 PM EDT
[#1]
If you were to change the twist rate, I'd think it would be a better idea to do 1/7 or 1/8. As much as it would be cool to have 1/14, I think we're probably the only people who would care. Most people probably don't even know about 1/14 barrels. The fact that your rifles are already 1/12 might already be off putting to a lot of people.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:20:38 PM EDT
[#2]
I bought one of the 1-14 barrels from Green Mountain for a 601 build. One with the FSB already installed would be nice.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:26:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Not putting a w on the barrel unless it’s with other markings so people don’t sell them as originals
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:29:42 PM EDT
[#4]
I love your barrels. That being said I think even the 1-12 is not a good option. Why use a 1-12 for a retro when you cant see it? If yall had those retros in 1-7 I would own one.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 2:23:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I'd buy one because I have yet to find an original Winchester one. I have two colts. A reason I wont buy the Green Mountain one is because it is chrome lined, if I remember correctly. I don't know if you guys can figure out a way to do a cast fsb, but that would be cool too.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 3:18:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Unfortunately I paid more for a Double Star barrel than you guys wanted for your comparable barrel, and that was despite the fact that your barrel is grayer, had taper pins and came with a slip ring, and the only reason I did it was because their barrel was a 1/9 instead of the 1/12 you guys were offering. People who're using reproduction parts usually just want cosmetic accuracy, but the people who want COMPLETE authenticity seem to only want authentic original (mostly Colt) parts. An idea I had that kinda splits the difference would be to have modern twist rates, but have old school stamping where it could be seen (forward of the FSB I guess) and then have the actual stamping under the handguards. So, you could make a 1/7 or 1/9 barrel and put the actual information under the handguard, but then put the old school 1/12 CHROMED (whatever) stamping where it would've been put on an original part.
On the positive side, I REALLY appreciate your willingness to take on doing retro parts and I've ordered as much retro reproduction stuff from you guys as I can. I'm hoping that it catches on and that soon you'll be offering some of the things that are really hard to find on auction sites. That would include stuff like early production (small pad) ejection port covers, no tick selector switches, dimpled pins, etc. Keep up the good work. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 3:36:19 PM EDT
[#7]
I will add this. For the 601 type barrel assemblies, regardless of twist rate, what would be nice is to have the flashing removed from the FSB since the 601 did not have any flashing. This would give more of a correct look. Also, removing the flashing from the upper receiver and removing the raised markings around the rear sight assembly would make it look more correct look. You guys also need to look into a source that can produce a 601 type port door like this.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 3:36:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not putting a w on the barrel unless it’s with other markings so people don’t sell them as originals |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 5:29:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks everyone.
1-7 is definitely noted, and should have our standard 1-7 20" barrels back in-stock soon. We would not make these barrels with solely the "W" mark. They'd also have the engraving we've been doing on all retro barrels. We're not in the business of counterfeits. Working on the port door. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 6:33:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Just wanted to say thanks for bringing all the retro offerings to market
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Posted: 2/22/2018 7:17:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks everyone. 1-7 is definitely noted, and should have our standard 1-7 20" barrels back in-stock soon. We would not make these barrels with solely the "W" mark. They'd also have the engraving we've been doing on all retro barrels. We're not in the business of counterfeits. Working on the port door. I think 1/14 is a FANTASTIC IDEA!!!!!! An early super clone with a 1/14 barrel and the NDS trigger type charging handle would be THE BOMB!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 7:29:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am surprised only a couple guys even understood what you were doing here....though there is a ton of guys in this forum who DO understand, you just haven't heard them peep up yet. I think 1/14 is a FANTASTIC IDEA!!!!!! An early super clone with a 1/14 barrel and the NDS trigger type charging handle would be THE BOMB!!!!!!!!!!  
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Posted: 2/22/2018 7:30:14 PM EDT
[#13]
STOP @BROWNELLS i CAN ONLY GET SO ERECT!
There would be a small demand for the 1/14 and I'm not sure how many you'd have to sell to make it profitable. There would be a far greater demand for a faster twist. My vote is for a 1/9 but many may prefer the 1/7. As well as I shoot the 1/9 would be nice and allow me to shoot M193 and M855 minute of paper plate at 100 yards easily. I have a few 1/7 retros and some 1/9 retros and one of your 1/12 carbine barrel assemblies. Hell while your at it make all three twists and some 601 uppers without flashing and raised arrow and FOR ST. STONER'S SAKE MAKE THE DETENT UNDER THE FIRING PORT! I'd like to see you rebate the slick uppers too. The unrebated uppers aggravate my OCD a bit. Go ahead and rebate some 603 upper too! WE WANT IT ALL!
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Posted: 2/22/2018 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
STOP @BROWNELLS i CAN ONLY GET SO ERECT! There would be a small demand for the 1/14 and I'm not sure how many you'd have to sell to make it profitable. There would be a far greater demand for a faster twist. My vote is for a 1/9 but many may prefer the 1/7. As well as I shoot the 1/9 would be nice and allow me to shoot M193 and M855 minute of paper plate at 100 yards easily. I have a few 1/7 retros and some 1/9 retros and one of your 1/12 carbine barrel assemblies. Hell while your at it make all three twists and some 601 uppers without flashing and raised arrow and FOR ST. STONER'S SAKE MAKE THE DETENT UNDER THE FIRING PORT! I'd like to see you rebate the slick uppers too. The unrebated uppers aggravate my OCD a bit. Go ahead and rebate some 603 upper too! WE WANT IT ALL! Good that the 1/7 may be available soon. I’d love a 1/9 chrome-lined 20” A1 barrel! Oh and @Cal30M1 the Brownells slickside uppers are rebated on the front lug. Just got one the other day. What I’d REALLY prefer @Brownells would do is remove the “C” and “A” from the slicksides. Now I gotta grind it off then refinish it. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 7:59:50 PM EDT
[#15]
@Brownells
Any chance of A1 length A2 stock bodies? Real ones are insanely expensive when you do find them. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 8:02:17 PM EDT
[#16]
I would definitely be interested in a 1-14 barrel.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 8:02:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks C6H12O6! I thought I saw that their Retro Line didn't have the indent under the port door.
Might have been an earlier pre mass production model. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 8:04:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m sure some would want the 1/14 barrels but I think there’s more of a market for 1/12 & 1/7. I’d love a 1/9 chrome-lined 20” A1 barrel! Oh and @Cal30M1 the Brownells slickside uppers are rebated on the front lug. Just got one the other day. What I’d REALLY prefer @Brownells would do is remove the “C” and “A” from the slicksides. Now I gotta grind it off then refinish it. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 8:13:21 PM EDT
[#19]
@Cal30M1
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks C6H12O6! I thought I saw that their Retro Line didn't have the indent under the port door. Might have been an earlier pre mass production model. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks C6H12O6! I thought I saw that their Retro Line didn't have the indent under the port door. Might have been an earlier pre mass production model. Quoted:
@Brownells Any chance of A1 length A2 stock bodies? Real ones are insanely expensive when you do find them. Quoted:
They won't remove the CA. Its the only thing that shows its not an original upper. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 8:43:47 PM EDT
[#20]
I get a chuckle out of those wanting an A2 barrel twist on an A1 or earlier 601 twist. If you want 1/7 for M855 just do an A2 or M4orgery clone ?. I have only two 1/7 rifles... a Tavor for my son and a 16" midlength...they use strictly M855 ball. All my other AR's are 1/12 with one 1/9. I'm no fan of 1/7 bores for the most part. Like the HV light "boolitz" with 1/12 in my poodle shooters.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 9:06:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get a chuckle out of those wanting an A2 barrel twist on an A1 or earlier 601 twist. If you want 1/7 for M855 just do an A2 or M4orgery clone ?. I have only two 1/7 rifles... a Tavor for my son and a 16" midlength...they use strictly M855 ball. All my other AR's are 1/12 with one 1/9. I'm no fan of 1/7 bores for the most part. Like the HV light "boolitz" with 1/12 in my poodle shooters. I have A2 & A4 clones that have 1/7 Gov’t barrels. But I also have an A4/A1-ish rifle that has a slickside flat-top upper, 20” A1 1/12 BRN barrel, A1 stock & A1 pistol grip. I’d like to do the same gun but in 1/7. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 9:38:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Brownells, I want the barrel you speak of, "W" and all
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Posted: 2/23/2018 1:22:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Stainless is a misprint correct? Why would a retro builder want a stainless steel barrel regardless of twist rate? 22LR possibly!
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Posted: 2/23/2018 4:07:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
What is the interest level in a 4 groove, 1-14 twist stainless "Winchester" 601 barrel? We would install a standard FSB & slip ring assembly on a production barrel. Any details we should consider? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/126709/IMG_2631-460747.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/126709/IMG_2632_JPG-460748.jpg |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 7:00:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Non chromelined, duck bill flash hider, and the most important part - a cast FSB. I would not bother bringing a 1/14 to market without the proper FSB, as those are already available from Green Mountain.
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Posted: 2/23/2018 2:56:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Brownells, please note, the early Winny 601 barrels have a thinner outside diameter from the front sight base up to where it flairs at the muzzle.
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Posted: 2/23/2018 3:45:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: +1 |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 6:08:18 PM EDT
[#28]
+1
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Posted: 2/23/2018 6:33:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Definitely interested in a 1/14 twist barrel. Just the thing for a 601 clone. As to a 1/7 twist A1 barrel, not so much.
Bill M. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 7:38:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Thanks everyone!
It sounds like something worth pursuing, and all other recommendations have been noted. |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 1:48:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
What is the interest level in a 4 groove, 1-14 twist stainless "Winchester" 601 barrel? We would install a standard FSB & slip ring assembly on a production barrel. ... Will you also offer a repro duckbill FH? |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 8:24:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Now that I've finally found a way to register on here I can add that, yes 1/14 barrels would be cool.
But also I would like to take this opportunity to implore Brownells to to start offering their carbine-length pencil barrels in 1/7. I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like a 723 or 733 clone. There is a real scarcity of lightweight 11.5" - 14.5" 1/7 twist carbine barrels on the market right now. |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 9:01:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now that I've finally found a way to register on here I can add that, yes 1/14 barrels would be cool. But also I would like to take this opportunity to implore Brownells to to start offering their carbine-length pencil barrels in 1/7. I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like a 723 or 733 clone. There is a real scarcity of lightweight 11.5" - |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 9:24:24 AM EDT
[#34]
My OCD dictates I be able to affix a bayonet.
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Posted: 2/24/2018 9:37:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As someone indicated, a "standard FSB" would ruin this attempt at serving the retro community. A big part of the attraction of an early barrel is the cast FSB. People can't see the twist, but retro people at the range will notice a cast FSB from five lanes away. Will you also offer a repro duckbill FH? Chuck |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 9:39:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brownells, please note, the early Winny 601 barrels have a thinner outside diameter from the front sight base up to where it flairs at the muzzle. PS, I am calling you later today... Chuck |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 10:47:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My OCD dictates I be able to affix a bayonet. 
It's the only thing that keeps me from redoing my 652. I like putting the can opener on the end of the rifle.
I even had someone move the bayo lug to the rear of the FSB on my proto middy (like the original had) so I can put the pig sticker on! It's a sickness that is harder on us with mild to terminal OCD. |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 11:14:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Based on what I've seen from lurking around here so long I think I'm *really* in the minority for generally preferring to meet OAL requirements with a pinned extended flash hider vs extended (14.7) barrel length and standard A1/A2.
A lot of people say the extended FH looks goofy but I think it depends on the make as some of the available ones seem to be *more* extended then they actually need to be. The BCM A2X I have on my GUU-5/P mutt, for instance, doesn't really stand out as looking overly "wrong" to me. |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 9:58:14 PM EDT
[#39]
I'd like a 1-14 chrome lined please.
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Posted: 2/25/2018 12:40:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Any details we should consider? |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 1:45:49 AM EDT
[#41]
FSB journal should be .625, otherwise it would not look right, FSB should also have the flashings removed. I know it would add cost, and I like the idea of stainless.
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Posted: 2/25/2018 4:19:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Jesus H Christ Brownells. Bring it!. 1/14 yes. I am so happy your offering retro stuff now. Wish you did this a decade ago.
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Posted: 2/25/2018 5:04:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the diameter of the Winny barrels in that area? My 1-14 601 barrel is a very early Colt, and knowing the difference would be nice. PS, I am calling you later today... Chuck Based on measurements I've gathered, though, the differences tend to be smaller than that range, and of course the barrels were not turned to great consistency. The section between the FSB and the FH will vary in diameter (i.e. some taper up, some taper down). Despite the loss of many of the photos, there is some good info (including some measurements I've made) in this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/123-605875/? (Sorry, linking isn't working for some reason.) |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 7:55:14 PM EDT
[#44]
IMHO, these are the critical aspects of this barrel:
1) Cast front sight base, attached via taper pins 2) Original twist rate of 1x14” 3) Unlined (non-chrome lined) chamber and bore 4) Manganese-phosphate “Parkerized” finish 5) Standard 20” “pencil” barrel contours 6) Standard “rifle” barrel extension (not “M4”) 7) Standard-height front sight base (not “F”) 8) No “fake Colt/Winchester” markings 9) Modern markings hidden under handguards 10) No “suppressor undercut” behind the muzzle threads Note that most of the points on the above list are just “standard A1 pencil barrel” items, which @Brownells already has a handle on. Make this barrel, and I’ll be building a 601 clone.
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Posted: 2/26/2018 4:24:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to Ekie, the Winchester barrels had showed a diameter of "about .565"" while the Colt-manufactured barrels showed a diameter of "about .575"." Based on measurements I've gathered, though, the differences tend to be smaller than that range, and of course the barrels were not turned to great consistency. The section between the FSB and the FH will vary in diameter (i.e. some taper up, some taper down). Despite the loss of many of the photos, there is some good info (including some measurements I've made) in this thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/123-605875/? (Sorry, linking isn't working for some reason.) |
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Posted: 2/26/2018 1:27:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Thanks for bringing new stuff to the retro market, and I would love 2 1/14 barrels.
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Posted: 2/27/2018 2:15:50 AM EDT
[#47]
I am a pretty big fan of the 1-14 twist mostly for sentimental reasons and was planning on picking up a couple more from Green Mountain later this year. But it never hurts to have another maker produce these barrels! The big improvement you guys could offer is cast FSB if you could find someone to do it you'd have a hot new item that would sell out pretty fast. I don't see why they'd be that hard or expensive to make either for a larger company but I don't know enough about them to say for sure.
I know it isn't correct but I actually prefer the chrome lined chamber/bore on the 1/14 twist since it isn't really visible unless you inspect closely and I like them for shooters. I understand why others do not want this for authenticity and Green Mountain was talking about making a batch without chrome if there was enough interest awhile back but don't think it gained much traction. It's interesting to see all the differences on these early 1-14 barrels and it would be nice to have more information gathered on the subject. |
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Posted: 3/4/2018 3:34:20 PM EDT
[#48]
1/14 would be cool as a wall hanger but I would rather be able to shoot 77 grainers out of my A1 builds. Plus, Green Mountain already makes them for a small number of people that actually would buy a 1/14 barrel.
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m14-20-m16-a1-5-56mm-1-14-twist-barrel/ |
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Posted: 3/4/2018 4:20:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a pretty big fan of the 1-14 twist mostly for sentimental reasons and was planning on picking up a couple more from Green Mountain later this year. But it never hurts to have another maker produce these barrels! The big improvement you guys could offer is cast FSB if you could find someone to do it you'd have a hot new item that would sell out pretty fast. I don't see why they'd be that hard or expensive to make either for a larger company but I don't know enough about them to say for sure. I know it isn't correct but I actually prefer the chrome lined chamber/bore on the 1/14 twist since it isn't really visible unless you inspect closely and I like them for shooters. I understand why others do not want this for authenticity and Green Mountain was talking about making a batch without chrome if there was enough interest awhile back but don't think it gained much traction. It's interesting to see all the differences on these early 1-14 barrels and it would be nice to have more information gathered on the subject. |
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Posted: 3/4/2018 4:22:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the point of buying a 1/14 if it has a chrome lined bore and chamber? If your argument is because you can't see it, then why not get something like a 1/9 or 1/7 twist? If I'm going all out and using an outdated twist rate such as 1/14, I'd rather have it as close as possible. |
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