Originally Posted By TUFBOY:
You are registering the lower you do need to state the caliber and OAL of firearm include picture of lower serial #,make.

Originally Posted By TUFBOY:
You are registering the lower you do need to state the caliber and OAL of firearm include picture of lower serial #,make.

Originally Posted By 3n1gm4:
About that... it's not a complete firearm yet  Had plans for a 300bo pistol, but haven't finished it yet.  Sorry for the confusion, late night posting isn't good for me

Originally Posted By s4s4u:
Can you beg/borrow a short barreled upper for the pic and papers?  Once you get the approval you can put any upper on the lower thereafter.

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
“The injunction on the rule only applies to the plaintiffs in Mock v. Garland.”

Orders that the appeal be “expedited to the next available Oral Argument Calendar.”

Originally Posted By GGGBeo50:
Im waiting for the part where we get to laugh at all you who registered something when you could have just waited and done nothing. LOL. A little over 100k registered so far and 10-40 million in circulation.

Originally Posted By GGGBeo50:
Im waiting for the part where we get to laugh at all you who registered something when you could have just waited and done nothing. LOL. A little over 100k registered so far and 10-40 million in circulation.

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
“The injunction on the rule only applies to the plaintiffs in Mock v. Garland.”

xxxx,

We're sending you this email in light of today's opinion regarding who is covered by the pistol brace injunction in FPC's case.
If you are receiving this email, you are an active member per our records and covered by the injunction.

Should you have any questions, please contact our customer support team at [email protected].

Also, please remember to encourage your friends and family to join as well at JoinFPC.org to be covered under the injunction.

Stay Free,

Firearms Policy Coalition

Originally Posted By urbanredneck:
May 31 the rule is enforced. What do you do with your braces while waiting for the form 1?

Originally Posted By urbanredneck:
May 31 the rule is enforced. What do you do with your braces while waiting for the form 1?

Originally Posted By TUFBOY:
In reference to keeping the brace I would. The way this government is if you get approved than the courts rule all this is crap none of us known what will happen reject the already SBR than you may need to put the brace back on as it's a pistol again.

Originally Posted By triburst1:
I registered some lowers. I’m keeping the braces because if this is overturned, I’m going right back out and buying some lowers and parts kits and building pistols again to go along with my new SBRs.

Originally Posted By triburst1:
I registered some lowers. I’m keeping the braces because if this is overturned, I’m going right back out and buying some lowers and parts kits and building pistols again to go along with my new SBRs.

Originally Posted By johnsonzibowitz:


I think this is what I might do.  I have several 9mm AR pistols, a 22lr AR pistol and a 300BLK pistol that I'll never travel with so why not?  Then I won't have to worry about whatever happens and they will be covered.  I may SBR those and one 5.56 AR pistol.  If it gets overturned I bet the ATF will just say you don't have a stamp and everything goes back to how it was with AR pistols being legal.  If not, then I'll just buy another lower and make that 5.56 AR a pistol again.

Plus, no engraving is a big benefit as well.

Originally Posted By panthermark:

FPC (and a few other attorneys) are saying differently.

They actually sent out an email stating:

I signed up a week ago.

They are viewing the day one part as FPC themselves have been part of this litigation since day one, not when the members joined.   But if things go well, it will not matter anyway.  Hopefully GOA gets a nationwide injunction in the next day or so.

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:


Glad I rate so much attention.  And the parts in error are?

Originally Posted By Firestarter123:



I think you’re pretty much spot on with your post.

Having 15+ companies churning out “braces” for the disabled never made business sense unless they were also used as a stock by everyone else as the volume sold only to the disabled just wouldn’t justify the existence of them all.

Originally Posted By Droppoint:
Another option for AR pistols?

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

I keep seeing this list pop up:

Options Available to all Possessors
1. Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm.
2. Permanently remove and dispose of, or alter, the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached.
3. Turn the firearm into your local office.
4. Destroy the firearm.
5. Register the weapon as set forth below depending on your category of possessor

It's implied that keeping an attachable brace while in possession of your pistol creates a problem of "constructive possession".

I propose that there may be another lawful option, at least for AR pistol owners, that may allow someone to lawfully keep their brace(s) and their pistols.

The Supreme Court has already decided (United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co.) it's perfectly lawful to turn a pistol into a rifle and back again as long as the receiver starts life as a pistol.  Rifles can use stocks or braces.  It's also perfectly OK to use a brace on a rifle per item (1) on the list above.

By building, buying, or currently owning a 16" AR upper in the same caliber that will fit/function on the subject AR pistol lower, an individual may be able to simply remove the brace from the pistol without destroying or registering anything. The brace now becomes part of a "conversion kit" to change the AR pistol to a AR rifle and back again, thanks to the modularity of the AR platform.   Rifle config: 16" upper and brace.  Pistol config: Short upper and no brace.  Possession of the 16" upper (attached to a current lower, or not) may counter any claims of "constructive possession".  After all, "braces" are supposedly "stocks" now, right?

This is especially applicable for pistol braces that use the standard carbine tube.  Easy on, easy off.

Point being; owning a 16" upper that fits and functions on the pistol lower, an individual may be able to simply put the brace (stock) on a shelf till this all blows over, and still be in full and complete compliance with the "rule" and the law.  No destroying, no registering.

Obviously to be in compliance and avoid any questions of "impropriety", one must never attach a brace (stock) to a lower until after the 16" upper is already attached, and the brace (stock) must be removed prior to removing the 16" upper.

Traveling with the pistol and the (unattached!) brace/stock? Make sure to have the matched 16" upper in the case as well.  Instant pistol/rifle kit.  It may be a good idea to carry a paper copy of the Thompson-Center ruling in the case as well.

Obvously this doesn't get around the rule, and doesn't help other types of pistol/brace owners, but may allow for lawful possession of both brace(s)/stock(s) and an AR pistol upper at the same time.

Just something to consider.  Apologies if this was already brought up.  Hopefully this will all be moot soon anyway.

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:

Nothing changes.  The June 1 deadline was specified in the Merick Garland ruling that he signed in January.  Regardless, you have about 2 days to decide and act. There will be no expansion of the forbearance period, regardless of what the judiciary does.  If you think the "reprieve" of the temporary injunction will actually mean anything, think again - though it's a good start.  

It's possible the judiciary will overturn SBR GCA, making all moot.  That's not actually going to happen, but nice to hope for.  It's possible, though unlikely, the courts overturning the aspects of the Merick Garland letter (the 100+ page "ruling").  The court does not have authority and cannot overturn the USAG's "discretion" to waive registration rules (the forbearance).  That is codified law that he has that authority, and not at odds with anything in the Constitution.  Those looking to seek joy at mocking those who registered, regardless of what happens, will be in for a long and disappointing wait for your sought after joyous moment.  

Any "overturn" of the rule, will strictly be on the registration requirements in the first place.  (and don't bank on jack shit actually getting "overturned")  If they do, yay; that means an armbrace that is and was intended to be an armbrace will remain so, and legal.  GCA and ATF will remain in existence.  If ATF can make a case that your "armbrace" was made or intended to be a stock, that's still codified law as a violation of NFA.   And they can and will convict manufactures (and some private holders), of being in violation of codified law still on the books.  As of June 1, they intend to so.  Status of the Merick Garland letter doesn't actually change that.  Discarding that letter, doesn't actually change that.  The part about the Garland letter nobody seems to get, is what it really said was: "As of June 1, we are assuming those are, and always were, intended to be stocks; and so are now enforcing NFA as we are chartered to do so."  They didn't make up any new regulations and legislation like everyone is acting like.  Which means, there's very little in there for the courts to overturn, unless the courts are convinced that stocks with velcro, aren't stocks; regardless of how people commonly use them; or regardless of what a stream of ATF extorted gun-employee's come before the judge and state that yes, the intent was for them to be stocks (because if that's what that ATF has to do; that's coming, just in case you were wondering - they JUST did that with "solvent traps".).  


No, there will be no extension of the deadline.  If you purchased your "pistol" when you were still putting air-quotes around that word, then you have about 1 day to go to the ATF website and address that for free, instantly, and with no engraving, as well as with waiver of all 922r aspects.  If you would rather pay for the priveledge; by all means, wait, validate that that route is the better more proper path for Americans, and give them money for all this, as well.  

On a tangent, be aware you had to technically have the item in your possession and in that configuration on, or prior to, Jan 31.  If you bought an item after that date, then it's not technically covered.  If you configured your item after that date, then technically it's not covered.  I'll leave that up to you to ponder what paper-trail you have to that effect.  Just note that 1) you cannot be criminally charged to anything related to a a Form 1 application that you filled out in good faith (that's codified by law, in fact), and 2) rumor I'm hearing is basically everything is getting rubber stamped anyway, including guns bought after Jan 31 (though I personally don't recommend it, and all approvals are "conditional", per rules of the letter; meaning they could be revoked later, if it can be proven your gun wasn't compliant with the games of the rule).  

Or in other words - if you had a stripped lower laying around already as of Jan 31; it will be an uphill road for ATF and a DA to prove that it wasn't configured in pistol configuration already by that date - but I leave that up to you.



Good for you; glad you seek your wife's counsel on such topics (not even being snarky).   That said, I have no idea what you think you're achieving; but sure - stick it to the man.  I find it's a real FU message to the concentration camp guard to smack that food tray out of his hand; and then go pay him $200 for the same food that afternoon, so he can have drinking money for later too  .... I guess.


You have an SBR'd firearm that has a real stock that you didn't have to engrave, pay $200 for, and was exempted from 922r.  That discretion is the AG's to give, and the courts cannot overrule that.  But in the case of what you are hoping for, in theory you can put an armbrace back on your registered gun, which now will no longer be subject to any registration related rules, and cross state lines and use it just like everyone else.   And then put the stock back on it when you are home.  

But in case you're wondering, no - this isn't actually getting overturned.  Best case: a couple awesome activist judges in Texas might overrule it - whatever that actually means.  5th circuit appeals court agrees, and USSC dicks around like usual and never actually hears the case; keeping it in limbo.  So 5th circuit folks, who can demonstrate that the armbrace was never intended to be a stock, can continue to call it an armbrace.  I would advise great care on social media and photos on the topic.  If ATF can make a case you intended it to be a stock, they can still nail you - even in 5th circuit.  Go read "the letters" and go read all the congressional talking points.  People are reading a lot more into those things than what was actually there.  Then go read the NFA codified law in the Federal Register on the topic.  Was that armbrace never intended by the manufacture or by you to be a stock?  you sure about that?  You sure there's not an extorted shipping clerk at a manufacturer not about to tell a judge that was the real intent?  It doesn't have to have been your intent, if it was their intent - still in violation then.

Though really, they don't actually GAF about you - it's PSA, Maxim, and anyone doing stuff anew after June 1, that they actually care about.  For you, it's mostly just harassments if you go to a gun range, or hunting, or self-defense, or..  (etc).  


See above.  They have an SBR'd firearm that they can de-SBR back and forth at their own individual discretion, just like any other SBR.


Well.. yea.  Also, as to the whole temporary injunction; just so you know, that's all show that doesn't actually mean jack shit, and will be history in a few months - if not sooner.  If you're "covered", and think you're "covered", and June 1 can now be ignored - think again.  That window is closing June 1, regardless.  So if you are worried about going "well shit", in mid July when that goes away ... well, you have 2 days to act.  

If you aren't going to register, regardless - awesome, there you go.  Though I'm in the camp of please don't give the ATF $200 to impose their restrictions of the 2nd Amendment rights (but I still love you and don't hate you either way); group.  of which I think there might be about 2 like me on the forum; but there you go.

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:


"constructive intent" has always been ill-defined (and sketchy ATF practice).   Basically, it comes down to can they convince a judge and jury that it was your intent to assemble the components together?   If you have an armbrace and a pistol with a carbine tube, in the same gun-case, they will fairly readily be able to make that case.   If you have a gun safe with multiple items in it, and a spare-parts bin 1 room over that includes an arm-brace buried under stuff, then it's more grey.  Do you have photos and social media postings indicating you combine the 2?   If it's with your neighbor, but you drink with your neighbor every night and go shooting every Saturday, are you sure they can't still make the case?  Who knows - as they just make that shit up as they go, and sometimes the courts let them.  

If you are on a wait and see path; but still want individual compliance, then yes - removing the armbraces and attaching them to other rifles, while possessing no extra surplus stocks would work.  As would just giving them to a friend or stashing them elsewhere not on your property.  But really, none of this is likely necessary.  Unless you are an FFL or otherwise engage in the trade of making and selling guns, nobody is coming to your door to actually ask about this.

Originally Posted By Firestarter123:


I didn't say you had to be disabled to use them, however, there are realistically only 2 reasons to use a brace:

1) You are disabled and need it in order to shoot your gun
2) Use as a makeshift "stock" in order to work around the SBR rules yet still be able to travel across state lines since braced firearms are still classified as "pistols" for the next 2 days

Beyond the above reasons an actual stock is better than a brace in every way.

If the NFA didn't exist then the only reason to ever use a brace would be reason #1 listed above.