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Posted: 3/29/2021 9:13:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Just seeing what other people feel about them. Iv noticed over the passed 6 months or so the usual suspect influencers on YouTube insta etc. have been really pushing the whole idea that surefires dual fuel is bottom of the barrel as far as high dollar lights are concerned. I understand that the candela of a dual fuel is nowhere near what a modlight or the new cloud defense is but... maybe I’m a fan boy. I have two x300b’s and two dual fuels and they’ve been perfectly fine for me. Anyway thought it would be an interesting discussion topic. Over and out. They're just REALLY proud of their products. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 9:28:38 AM EDT
[#2]
Output wise, they’ve been eclipsed by a number of different more modern offerings.
Function and durability are still very good, though, so unless you’re that guy who needs absolute bleeding edge performance, I see no reason to upgrade if you already have a decent SF product. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 9:34:49 AM EDT
[#3]
When I think capability and innovation I look to Modlite and Cloud.
Surefire still makes great combat proven lights, they’ve just gotten lazy. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 9:46:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I think capability and innovation I look to Modlite and Cloud. Surefire still makes great combat proven lights, they've just gotten lazy. Agree "Surefire manufactures the finest and most innovative tactical illumination tools & equipment" Surefire innovation... Swivel base... Yay Edit - They do make good handgun lights. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 11:16:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Modlite all day, sorry not sorry -- I still love Surefire though
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Posted: 3/29/2021 1:48:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Once Modlite releases a pistol light, it'll be a wrap for SF on any of my weapons. They're still a good, reliable brand...But they haven't made any big contributions to the light world in years. Certainly not insofar as weapon-mounted lights are concerned.
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Posted: 3/29/2021 2:21:07 PM EDT
[#7]
They're good and reliable, but IMO they're expensive for what they are.
Want the best performance? Go Modlite or Cloud. Want the save some $$? Go streamlite. And then there's Arisaka / Malkoff with comparable prices and better performance in there as well. Additionally, all of those you can piece together your ideal light for about the same price instead of buying a complete SF unit that you may or may not use the mount and tailcap for. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 9:13:41 PM EDT
[#8]
If you’re in the Surefire price range then skip surefire all together and buy a Modlite.
Streamlight is a great product that has come a decent way as far as innovation the last few years. It’s in a different price point and in my opinion is one of the best in that price point. I honestly can’t see a reason to buy much of anything surefire anymore UNLESS you want something for night vision. The Vampire lights are cool. |
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Posted: 3/29/2021 11:48:57 PM EDT
[#9]
I still buy Surefires and I love them. They are certainly quality, and have some great performance. I threw away some Streamlights when I was younger, and Surefire was the only better thing around. They set the standard for so long that there is a reason so many others share the threads, mounts, switches, etc. I respect them for what they were, and they made solid products when I needed them (multiple deployments).
That said, I don't let my love for them sway my advice to others. Modlite and Cloud are pretty innovative. Arisaka and Malkoff were fixing Surefire's shortcomings a long time ago. There are other options in the Surefire price range that are subjectively better. I try to explain my bias when offering all the options to others. I still love Surefire for what they were, and still are. But they need to keep up or they will die. They leave long gaps between great new releases. People might not keep funding Surefire's R&D through Scout lights and pistol lights if they don't roll out new things faster. But many of their items can't be sold for cheaper due to gov contracts. Maybe if they lose a couple, they'd fight a little harder. Again, I'm a die hard Surefire fan, but I can openly recommend an alternative if it fits someone's budget/needs/wants. I think there are a lot of people that just think of Surefire as the best, but it is becoming more and more clear that it is not necessarily the case anymore. Just my thoughts. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 1:55:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Modlite is simply king.
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Posted: 3/30/2021 3:02:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Other than the X300U, Surefire is getting left behind.
Modlite is soon releasing a pistol light and the X300U may soon be "old" also. Its not a quantity issue but a performance issue. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 4:23:44 PM EDT
[#12]
The only Surefires I run and reccomend are X300U A pistol lights. I have a 500 or 600 lumen gas pedal light on a micro battle belt somewhere... really wish I could get the same function in an 18650 light.
I have a Surefire M300C I really need to get rid of in the gunsafe. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 4:36:48 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm a big Surefire user but I'm hesitant to convert to Modlite because of the rechargeable only factor and how short the run times are on rechargeables. Run times are already short on CR123s, but from what I've seen the Modlite 18650s are 1 hour at best and the 18350 bodies are 1/2 hour, which seems short to me. I also have a ton of other devices that run on CR123s and messing around with battery swaps at night and potentially dropping an 18350 into something that needs a CR123 and frying it is a deterrent for me.
The Modlite dual fuel OKW is what I'm looking for and is a step in the exact direction I needed to replace Surefire lights/heads. Once they release a dual fuel PLH I'm going to try one and if it's as good as the current models appear to be I would be willing to switch all of my white light SF heads over to Modlites. FWIW Surefire has great customer service, they have fixed numerous things that I either broke or used enough that they just gave out after some time. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 6:02:24 PM EDT
[#14]
a CR123 has 1500mAh of capacity
A 18650 has 3000-3500mAh of capacity (depending on brand) If you think a 18650 has a sort run time, a CR123 has less than half. In a side by side light like the X300U that could use 18350s, you would loose some run time as 18350s are 1200mAh Also CR123s will limit the output of the light as they can't handle the current draw newer lights can pull. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 6:24:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Bow before the king.
 EDIT: Now someone go buy my like new surefire scout takeoff from the EE for cheap lol |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 6:58:53 PM EDT
[#16]
M600DF run time w/ (2) CR123s or 18650 = 1.5 hour run time
Modlite 18650 body run time = 1 hour M300C run time = 1 hour Modlite 18350 = .5 hours It's not the end of the world but the run times are lower. The two-cell or 18650 disparity is less, at 2/3 the run time for the higher output modlite. The single-cell is 1/2 the run time for the Modlite but the lumen output difference is so significant there it's almost not worth comparing, but that being said, it's the only comparison to make unfortunately. The dual fuel heads from Modlite are going to be a game changer. I'll take a 20% output reduction when using CR123s in order to be able to run both CR123s and rechargeables. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 8:04:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M600DF run time w/ (2) CR123s or 18650 = 1.5 hour run time Modlite 18650 body run time = 1 hour M300C run time = 1 hour Modlite 18350 = .5 hours It's not the end of the world but the run times are lower. The two-cell or 18650 disparity is less, at 2/3 the run time for the higher output modlite. The single-cell is 1/2 the run time for the Modlite but the lumen output difference is so significant there it's almost not worth comparing, but that being said, it's the only comparison to make unfortunately. The dual fuel heads from Modlite are going to be a game changer. I'll take a 20% output reduction when using CR123s in order to be able to run both CR123s and rechargeables. Surefire says 1200 lumens for 1.25 hours with CR’s and 1500 lumens for 1.5 hours with an 18650. The Cloud Rein gets 1400 lumens for 1.5 hours with an 18650. My old CR123 Surefires faded out quick as they drained. My 18650 OWL is still producing reduced but functional light long after CR’s in my old Surefires. However I’m not sure if that’s a function of the battery or the circuitry of the light itself. |
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Posted: 3/30/2021 10:04:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Yea that’s how I feel about it. I have a pile of sf lights and I’m pretty sure I won’t be need to Id anything further than 50 yards. I say that then I’ll have money burning a hole in my pocket then I’ll get a modlite. Who knows I’m a mess.
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Posted: 3/30/2021 10:07:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Also fun fact I’m starting to notice surefire dual fuels go for cheap on EE here and elsewhere.
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Posted: 3/31/2021 2:49:40 PM EDT
[#20]
As soon as I noticed my DF's flickering with older switches I dumped them all and got modlites. I still run M600U's and even some M600C's, but I see no good reason to get a DF over a Modlite in today's market.
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Posted: 3/31/2021 2:59:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're just REALLY proud of their products. They are well placed in the industry, enough to charge more than current prices. Just business. But yes OP they have some inventory to square away and some jumps in tech to achieve to compete with some outputs and switches etc. |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 5:27:59 PM EDT
[#22]
I say no. I moved to Modlite from 600DFs and now have REINs
I'd place them a distant third. |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 5:29:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Streamlight is much cheaper and I've carried those for years.
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Posted: 3/31/2021 5:55:58 PM EDT
[#24]
The DF is having issues. Works well with the tailcap but not the tape switch. Probably why they are being dumped.
Damnit. Meant to quote @Sappymammal1990 |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 6:05:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Good light but the PLHv2 performs noticeably better so no the DF is not the gold standard IMHO
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Posted: 4/1/2021 1:54:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion? Gold Standard?
There is no discussion. Definitely not... |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 11:03:24 AM EDT
[#27]
I got the Arisaka 600 series with like 55,000 candela and I couldn’t imagine the need for a brighter light. I do like the cloud lights with built in pressure pads and mod lights are nice too, I’d say SF has brand and resale recognition but it’s easily 3 or 4 for me. Arisaka is best overall for my purposes price/spec/value, for a light that might not even get used defensively and if it doesn’t, will work just fine for the couple mins it’s used. If I’m ever hunting in the woods for bad guys, I don’t think lights will matter ( I wouldn’t want to give position away) because the best defense is leaving the area if possible.
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Posted: 4/7/2021 10:13:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once Modlite releases a pistol light, it'll be a wrap for SF on any of my weapons. They're still a good, reliable brand...But they haven't made any big contributions to the light world in years. Certainly not insofar as weapon-mounted lights are concerned. The Streetlight TLR7 series beats anything Surefire has from a compact pistol light. Modlite > Cloud > Malkoff/Arisaka > Surefire > Streamlight for carbines. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 11:15:54 PM EDT
[#29]
I’m a surefire fanboy but don’t like or use the DF models after having owned a couple. Mine had a number of issues.
But I still don’t use any other brand of light on my rifles. Helmet lights or other miscellaneous lights I sometimes compromise on |
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Posted: 4/8/2021 9:20:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Modlite is simply king. Unless you need a light with IR and white light, then Surefire is king. |
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Posted: 4/8/2021 3:00:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you need a light with IR and white light, then Surefire is king. Facts. This might change sooner rather than later though. |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 8:01:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Surefire needs to be the price range of Streamlight honestly
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Posted: 4/11/2021 2:21:02 PM EDT
[#33]
I was about to order an M600DF but thankfully I did some research and skipped it. Too many issues that Streamlight does not have at half the price. I ended up ordering a Modlite PLHv2 from Rooftop Defense, should be here next week. With the coupon code it was not much more than a Surefire.
The only reason I did not get an HLX is it’s made in China. I have a TLR-1 HPL on a rifle and it’s a bright, effective light. |
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Posted: 4/18/2021 2:08:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Just seeing what other people feel about them. Iv noticed over the passed 6 months or so the usual suspect influencers on YouTube insta etc. have been really pushing the whole idea that surefires dual fuel is bottom of the barrel as far as high dollar lights are concerned. I understand that the candela of a dual fuel is nowhere near what a modlight or the new cloud defense is but... maybe I’m a fan boy. I have two x300b’s and two dual fuels and they’ve been perfectly fine for me. Anyway thought it would be an interesting discussion topic. Over and out. Because there is new competition that makes solid weapon lights does not mean Surefire is crap. I still get Surefire for my rifles. I just prefer that brand. Social media influencers are just that...sales people. If they have an Instagram page, get kickbacks from links clicked/sales made or have a Patreon then they are just sales people. |
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Posted: 4/18/2021 2:52:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Tag. Never put a light on a single gun.
Pistol or carbine first? |
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Posted: 4/19/2021 10:27:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tag. Never put a light on a single gun. Pistol or carbine first? What do you have with you the most? For me it’s a handgun all day and most of the night. When I go to bed it’s on the night stand. I don’t carry a rifle with me all day and only have it at night. |
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Posted: 4/24/2021 12:57:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because there is new competition that makes solid weapon lights does not mean Surefire is crap. I still get Surefire for my rifles. I just prefer that brand. Social media influencers are just that...sales people. If they have an Instagram page, get kickbacks from links clicked/sales made or have a Patreon then they are just sales people. This; I still think the mounting system on the 340/640 Surefires is better than what Arisaka and Modlite are offering. It's essentially like the Bobro swivel mount but lower profile. I am contemplating a PLHv2 head for my M640DF though; I looked at the DF OKW head but I think I want more spill. They cost as much as the Surefire did. 
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Posted: 4/24/2021 1:16:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are well placed in the industry, enough to charge more than current prices. Just business. That's probably due to how they treated the competitors back in the day. Once the case was fought the price of SF went through the roof. Pentagon lights were kicking their ass back in the day.  
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Posted: 4/25/2021 8:19:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Once modlite puts out their pistol lights there will be only two reason you buy anything other than their products.
1-surefire fanboy going to fanboy 2 cheap ass who buys streamlight. I personally carry a streamlight as a handheld but I will never carry one on a gun. I have broke to many and I like light when I need it. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 8:18:05 AM EDT
[#40]
The beam characteristics I’ve seen out of modlites has been far superior to my surefires, outside of my X300. My M300 has garbage throw for what I wanted it for, 50 yards and in is the limit for reliable PID on a fresh battery. The M600v I had was not a great compromise, as the white light had better throw than my 300, the IR was just pretty lackluster. My X300 has just been awesome with great throw and spill.
My sample sizes are pretty small, but the cost of Surefires keeps me from trying more of them, as well as any of the newer products. I’d like to invest into modlite, but for the cost of them (and all of my bitching), my M300’s performance, it’s just fine for indoor use, which is realistically what it’ll be used for. I’ve no idea what the limits are for dual-output lights like the Vampire series, but if modlite can make one with better output, or at least far superior throw, then I’d probably be all in. |
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Posted: 4/27/2021 9:27:57 AM EDT
[#41]
didn't see this wasn't in GD, sorry
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Posted: 4/28/2021 4:07:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because there is new competition that makes solid weapon lights does not mean Surefire is crap. I still get Surefire for my rifles. I just prefer that brand. Social media influencers are just that...sales people. If they have an Instagram page, get kickbacks from links clicked/sales made or have a Patreon then they are just sales people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just seeing what other people feel about them. Iv noticed over the passed 6 months or so the usual suspect influencers on YouTube insta etc. have been really pushing the whole idea that surefires dual fuel is bottom of the barrel as far as high dollar lights are concerned. I understand that the candela of a dual fuel is nowhere near what a modlight or the new cloud defense is but... maybe I’m a fan boy. I have two x300b’s and two dual fuels and they’ve been perfectly fine for me. Anyway thought it would be an interesting discussion topic. Over and out. Because there is new competition that makes solid weapon lights does not mean Surefire is crap. I still get Surefire for my rifles. I just prefer that brand. Social media influencers are just that...sales people. If they have an Instagram page, get kickbacks from links clicked/sales made or have a Patreon then they are just sales people. This 1000%...It's the new brand of sales tactics. 
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Posted: 4/28/2021 4:44:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This 1000%...It's the new brand of sales tactics. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just seeing what other people feel about them. Iv noticed over the passed 6 months or so the usual suspect influencers on YouTube insta etc. have been really pushing the whole idea that surefires dual fuel is bottom of the barrel as far as high dollar lights are concerned. I understand that the candela of a dual fuel is nowhere near what a modlight or the new cloud defense is but... maybe I'm a fan boy. I have two x300b's and two dual fuels and they've been perfectly fine for me. Anyway thought it would be an interesting discussion topic. Over and out. Because there is new competition that makes solid weapon lights does not mean Surefire is crap. I still get Surefire for my rifles. I just prefer that brand. Social media influencers are just that...sales people. If they have an Instagram page, get kickbacks from links clicked/sales made or have a Patreon then they are just sales people. This 1000%...It's the new brand of sales tactics. IMHO, SF made the better remote switches for long guns, for a long time, and Unity tactical only relatively recently got something better on the market. I still like the old SF incandescent light bodies, as long as Malkoff makes an replacement LED that will fit in it. Pistol lights and switches? SF X-series lights and their tailcap tapeswitches. |
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Posted: 4/29/2021 4:19:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once modlite puts out their pistol lights there will be only two reason you buy anything other than their products. 1-surefire fanboy going to fanboy 2 cheap ass who buys streamlight. I personally carry a streamlight as a handheld but I will never carry one on a gun. I have broke to many and I like light when I need it. I really am wanting to make the switch from SF to modlite but am very hung up on the fact that I have somewhere in the 10k range on surefires with zero problems and reliability/durability is just as if not more important the beam pattern |
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Posted: 4/29/2021 4:42:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once modlite puts out their pistol lights there will be only two reason you buy anything other than their products. 1-surefire fanboy going to fanboy 2 cheap ass who buys streamlight. I personally carry a streamlight as a handheld but I will never carry one on a gun. I have broke to many and I like light when I need it. Ehhh, Surefire builds a quality light and good switches, they have just fallen behind in beam pattern-and I have seen some speculation that that is due to gov't contract reliance. That said, I do have a PLHv2 head on the way for my M640DF. |
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