I will wait for the SCAR-L myself and purchase it if its under $2,200.  Maybe even the XCR by RobArms, but its about to receive Shrike status if they don't start delivering something.  

Quoted: IIRC Colt's submission to the SCAR trials (the M5?) didn't make the cut. I would assume that the LE1020 system is based upon the M5, correct? I doubt they came up with 2 different piston systems. So .gov has already rejected the M5/LE1020 platform (at least for the SCAR program) so why would Colt necessarily be the one to get a contract? Granted, whoever eventually gets the big kahuna Uncle Sam deal will be the one which sets the standard and eventually overtakes the others. I just don't see how Colt is a sure thing to do it. BTW, I have an L-W and a POF. Love 'em both!

You have both huh! It must be nice!

In a few short weeks Ill have 2 different POF's. Im waiting for LW to speed up a little before I order one. Im a very impatient guy. Turnaround time is just a little to long for me.
SO how do you compare the 2. Weight , reliability, design etc....

Quoted: IIRC Colt's submission to the SCAR trials (the M5?) didn't make the cut. I would assume that the LE1020 system is based upon the M5, correct? I doubt they came up with 2 different piston systems. So .gov has already rejected the M5/LE1020 platform (at least for the SCAR program) so why would Colt necessarily be the one to get a contract? Granted, whoever eventually gets the big kahuna Uncle Sam deal will be the one which sets the standard and eventually overtakes the others. I just don't see how Colt is a sure thing to do it. BTW, I have an L-W and a POF. Love 'em both!

Colt's M5 is not the same as the LE1020. The M5 was not monolithic in design and a featured a quick change barrel system that was apparently not that great (from what was stated on here). The new system does not have the quick change system and has a monolithic upper. These are two totally different systems.  Even if the piston components are the same, that does not mean that .gov rejected the piston system. It j ust means that they did not like the package Colt put together. The LE1020 is a whole new ballgame.

Edit: and given its designatin "LE"1020, I think this is aimed at the Civilian market (LEO are still civilians) more than the .mil

Quoted: Questioning Colt's ability to make a weapon is like asking if GDLS knows how to make combat vehicles or if Lockheed knows to design and manufacture fighter jets given their past history in said markets.

All I have to say to you is Colt All American 2000:

Who ever gets the biggest military contract.

I personally think all of the piston systems have alot to offer, but I don't think any of them will be capable of a contract calling for standard issue rifle numbers.

Colt maybe, FN probably.

I'll take a DI AR15 and a SCAR/ARM-H.

All of them SHOULD BE BANNED because of their excess GAYNESS!

Quoted: All of them SHOULD BE BANNED because of their excess GAYNESS!

It was funny a few of the first hundred thousand times, but that was a long, long time ago.

Quoted: All of them SHOULD BE BANNED because of their excess GAYNESS!

This ones just for you Mark.

The Ultimate gay rifle;  LW piston upper and Carbon 15 lower!

Quoted: Quoted: All of them SHOULD BE BANNED because of their excess GAYNESS! It was funny a few of the first hundred thousand times, but that was a long, long time ago.

+1 and the "87" thing wasn't even funny the first 1000 times

Who will win?the one thats accepted and standardised by the Army or Marines..that will be the winner.

Quoted: Who will win?the one thats accepted and standardised by the Army or Marines..that will be the winner.

+1

who is winning now?

Quoted: Quoted: Questioning Colt's ability to make a weapon is like asking if GDLS knows how to make combat vehicles or if Lockheed knows to design and manufacture fighter jets given their past history in said markets. All I have to say to you is Colt All American 2000: geikiedesigns.com/data/FxIMGS/036050_0.jpg

Dont forget these shitty ass guns Colt has spit out

OHWS the answer to the HK SOCOM...I think not


Colt SSP. This was the gun that was supposed to compete with the 226 and 92FS...in theory

Quoted: It's nice to see Colt actually introducing something new rather than the same old, same old with no new innovations.

the M16A2 rifle
the M4 carbine
M4 feed ramps
double heat shield handguards
"waffle" type collapsible stock
ACR stock (copied by Crane/LMT)

to name a few from the past 20 years or so

What "innovations" has any other major AR manufacturer brought to market? The RRA "tactical" carry handle? Carbon rifles?

Quoted: The Colt system looks promising since it’s compatible with both regular handguards and all standard type FF Rail Systems. No special top rail removable rail system needed!

If the "removeable top" comment is directed towards the LW system, that's just not true.  Paul has said over and over that he wished he could just "seal" in the piston system, since it will NEVER need maintaining.  It self-regulates and cleans itself with each stroke.  So, really the removeable top rail is just for us guys who like to tinker with our toys!  

Quoted: Quoted: IIRC Colt's submission to the SCAR trials (the M5?) didn't make the cut. I would assume that the LE1020 system is based upon the M5, correct? I doubt they came up with 2 different piston systems. So .gov has already rejected the M5/LE1020 platform (at least for the SCAR program) so why would Colt necessarily be the one to get a contract? Granted, whoever eventually gets the big kahuna Uncle Sam deal will be the one which sets the standard and eventually overtakes the others. I just don't see how Colt is a sure thing to do it. BTW, I have an L-W and a POF. Love 'em both! You have both huh! It must be nice! In a few short weeks Ill have 2 different POF's. Im waiting for LW to speed up a little before I order one. Im a very impatient guy. Turnaround time is just a little to long for me. SO how do you compare the 2. Weight , reliability, design etc....

Product delivery is KEY!  POF is winning right now, if you go by how many units have been delivered.  Colt isn't even in the race, just warming up.  HK started the race, then changed their policy/practices, and tried to sue the race sponsors.  None of the "new prototype" manufacturers have delivered squat to anybody but .MIL testers (FN, Robinson Arms, Sig 556, etc...)  Leitner-Wise has been steadily delivering product at a snail's pace for a year, but is SUPPOSED to be undergoing rapid growth by moving into a large production facility in the near future.  They claim they will be completely caught up with back-orders (including MINE) by April 31st, and will have product on hand to deliver.  If they achieve this goal, they and POF will be true competitors.  

I am VERY excited about the industry push of the piston system.  I think pistons are the ONLY way to go, and it's ABOUT FRIGG'N TIME!  I'll keep my M16A2 clone, and my M4 clone as collector's pieces, but all my others run the risk of being sold off or converted to piston systems.

If you STILL don't know why a piston system makes the DI system obsolete, read up.  If nothing else, it reduces the HEAT in the upper receiver/bolt carrier.  Heat is the number one factor of parts breakage and extractor problems.  Reliability will increase with this change ALONE!  Now remove all the gas getting vented back into the upper, take away the issue of underpowered ammunition causing problems, nullify suppressor issues with the gas port, and you START to see what all the fuss is about...    

Quoted: Quoted: The Colt system looks promising since it’s compatible with both regular handguards and all standard type FF Rail Systems. No special top rail removable rail system needed! If the "removeable top" comment is directed towards the LW system, that's just not true.  Paul has said over and over that he wished he could just "seal" in the piston system, since it will NEVER need maintaining.  It self-regulates and cleans itself with each stroke.  So, really the removeable top rail is just for us guys who like to tinker with our toys!

Last time an AR15/M16 was billed as self cleaning it didnt end so good for some soldiers in Vietnam. If I cant take down every part of the action and clean it, I want nothing to do with the gun period...

Quoted: Quoted: IIRC Colt's submission to the SCAR trials (the M5?) didn't make the cut. I would assume that the LE1020 system is based upon the M5, correct? I doubt they came up with 2 different piston systems. So .gov has already rejected the M5/LE1020 platform (at least for the SCAR program) so why would Colt necessarily be the one to get a contract? Granted, whoever eventually gets the big kahuna Uncle Sam deal will be the one which sets the standard and eventually overtakes the others. I just don't see how Colt is a sure thing to do it. BTW, I have an L-W and a POF. Love 'em both! You have both huh! It must be nice! In a few short weeks Ill have 2 different POF's. Im waiting for LW to speed up a little before I order one. Im a very impatient guy. Turnaround time is just a little to long for me. SO how do you compare the 2. Weight , reliability, design etc....

Yeah, L-W's wait time can be tiresome; the good Lord didn't give me a lot of patience either!

Obviously the design is different. Reliability with both is excellent. The POF has a little more heft to it. I just wish POF had a rail system developed for theirs like Grenadier Precision did for the L-W guns. However, POF's handguards are VERY snug fitting and I mounted a VFG with a little piece of picatinny rail and there is NO movement or wobble. Also wish POF had used a standard FSB but the one on it is sufficient.

Oh, before I forget---clean up with both is a breeze!!! Pistons rule as far as ease of maintenance for us anal types goes!