I've usually used what I call a "tiered build list "when it comes to LPKs over the years. I've used plenty of PSA and CMMG kits for beater guns, but when I do a nice midrange or higher end gun I have always used the BCM Lower Parts kit as they're a known commodity. Now the thing is, with the LaRue MBTs being so freaking cheap, I'm starting to want to buy LPKs without the FCG and not waste it. For example, we all know BCM makes good LPKs, but they also included a $60 trigger in there that just will go to waste on my next build. I've seen spikes usually is solid too, but they also sell a LPK that's sans FCG and about $40... which when you take out the expensive trigger they used for their ELPKs makes sense. Sadly BCM doesn't do that, so I'm stuck buying a full LPK for $110-$120 and then putting the trigger in a box and wasting it.

now my QUESTION is. From the people who have run their guns hard, how do the Spikes basic LPKs hold up in hard use? Any mim parts? would it stand up against the rock solid nature of the BCM LPKs in terms of ruggedness? I guess I could always sell off the trigger, but figure I might as well check if the Spikes is AS GOOD and that way not have to flip

OST for info on this topic as well.

I have done the cheap to expensive lower part kits minus FCG and all are pretty much the same. All install the same and work the same after installed. I use other FCG instead of the mil spec ones. Although never done ambi safeties or other ambi controls since I am right handed and have no point in doing them.

I have used BCM but for the same reason as you (not wanting trigger in kit) started looking elsewhere.

I have used a few Sionics kits and have been very happy with them. They are not as well known but do a lot of police contract guns and are held in high regard by industry professionals. I have also used Sons of liberty gun works and have been happy with the product (shipping took a while). If you look under the description for their blaster guts kit they go into great detail about what types off materials are used in the kit. I would rate these 2 on the same level as BCM

You could also look somewhere such as Arms unlimited for a Colt  lpk without trigger. They are around $40-50 when in stock

$40-$50 for colt LPKs? damn, that's not bad. the lowest I've seen for them has been normally $70-$90 (Brownells taking the hilarious cake at $140 for the LPK without FCG) but that's NOT a bad idea.

I've seen Sionics before, but usually only at TOS (and it's usually Iraqgunz pimping them since he works for them), but they seem  to be highly regarded over there. I'll take a peak at them. EDIT: Just saw that they sale a LPK without trigger guard, grip or FCG for $39.95, which isn't bad since I ALWAYS replace the grip in an LPK with a hogue grip and magpul or BCM trigger guards are dirt cheap anyways (I have a stack of A2 and random other grips along with a million trigger guards that I've kept from other builds that I upgraded from so it's not like I would be out anything).

Why not take the pnt trigger out of a bcm kit and put it in one of your beater rifles? It should be noticeable over a basic psa trigger.

Anyway I've used sionics stuff(just the lpk) and have been happy. I've also gotten a few of the colt lower parts kits that don't come with a trigger that I think were like 60 some bucks.

well, not a bad idea actually, but I already have EPT triggers from PSA kits (my PSA kits always are the EPT ones) and while the PNT IS nicer than the EPT, it's not THAT MUCH nicer and I'm looking to save money in the future instead of just shelving good triggers (whether that be the PSA EPTs or the BCM PNTs)

Fair enough, I've only dealt with the basic psa parts kits and thought they were crap. Had issues with the take down pins in a few not being smooth(replaced it with an armalite or colt part and it works as it should) and the triggers sucked. I was use to lmt, bcm, and colt stock mil spec triggers and was really disappointed.

I say go sionics, nice thing with them is they have a 10 dollar upgrade to an ambi safety(if you want one like I normally do). That or one of the colt kits if you can find them in stock.

yeah, the PSA regular trigger and their Enhanced Polished Trigger is a night and day diff imo. ALMOST as good as the ACT or PNT (but still slightly behind), so I've just stuck with them for my run of the mill guns that I plink with. But yeah, they're infamous for having sharp detents that really make pushing the pivot and take down pins a b!tch until they wear in over time. Something my spikes and bcm kits never had

interesting thing about sionics. Just looked at them and realized they're based out of Tucson, which is where I live. I pay tax then, but no shipping if I pick up in store. Huh, that's actually not horrible

but if I can find the Colt LPKs for $50, then that's a f@cking no brainer. I just wasn't seeing them ANY less than $70+ ship but $50 (+ship) would be well within reason for a VERY much known part set.

Spikes used KNS parts which in my opinion are the absolute best.  The issue is that Spikes has to source all the springs, safety, bolt catch, magazine release and trigger guard from somewhere else because KNS does not make those parts.

My favorite is the Stag kit, sans FCG

If I were purchasing today, I'd only buy a Colt or Sionics LPK. I'd also be willing to try a ALG LPK.

For sure.

I will say, the individual parts from Sionics has led me away from my usual source of individual Armalite parts (DSG arms)

I snagged those nickel coated cam pins from them, and as much as I am not a fan of superduperfantastic coatings, they are wearing pretty good on overgassed, suppressed guns!  Time will tell.  I am betting the coating flakes

Need to see that price again for black Friday

Like I said the Sionics is good stuff. Sons of liberty also use kns parts in their kits

The Colt lower parts kit is $50 at Arms Unlimited but it's currently out of stock. They do have a an in stock notification email. I bought mine as soon as I got the email last time

Colt kit

one thing that triggered something in the back of my mind about the Colt kits. Doesn't colt have some "large pins" that they use in their kits so that you couldn't put a full auto sear in there? Or was that the takedown or pivot pins... I'm THINKING it was the fire control group hammer/trigger pins that they made over sized, but I can't remember (which would mean the colt LPK without FCG would fit just fine with any lower)

yeah, the Scionics "builder" kit for $39.95 is looking to be my best bet. since I replace the grip anyways makes sense to get one without that and having the 5 LaRue MBT triggers on the way should keep me in stock with triggers for the next few builds.

Like I said, I really like the BCM "comfort" of having a good kit, but wasting the trigger or TRYING to flip it on Armslist isn't a fun thought. Be easier to just grab a kit sans FCG and go from there.

If these work out I may have to stop using PSA and CMMG for my lower budget builds. One thing I HATE about PSA is their takedown and pivot pin detents. half of them are usually sharp and pointy making it a BEOTCH to try and push the pins in and out. The pins on the spikes and BCM build kits I use are night and day better.

grabbed the $39.95 "builders kit" from Sionics. Since I can order online and pick up in store (they're local to me) and I don't have to pay shipping, I can grab one and see if I like enough to grab another. $43.43 with tax and I have a stack of pistol grips and trigger guards already here. Easy enough to grab and from the recommendations they seem good. I'm pretty much done with PSA kits being that I HATE their detents (always have one or both takedown/pivot pins be a bit stiff due to a sharp detent)

Wormraper - please post up your review. I would buy a colt lpk but oos, so this is my runner-up.

I've mixed and matched detents to get the front pivot pins to be smooth, but I have a few takedown pins that would require me to bust staking, get new castle nuts and then re crank them back down to get smooth... something I never had to do with Spikes, BCM LPKs.... just annoying to have to deal with. Nothing wild, just have to put extra force on those pins, or pop them with the palm of my hand to seat easily.... if the sionics IS as good as TOS says they are, I'll just get the builder kits from them

they were my first builds and I used primarily PSA kits since PSA was KILLER price wise for their lower build kits... didn't feel the difference till I moved to BCM and Spikes kits and it was kind of a "stick out like a sore thumb" when you compared. Just my own little "ah well, your first ones" syndrome

This.

How oh how does the US military make do with these lowest bid parts kits? Surely they don't use them as much as we do.

they haven't fixed it as of this last month. Nothing wild, just enough to keep some of the pins stiff coming out of the "notch" on the takedown/pivoot pins smoothly. annoying, but should be fine as I got all the pivot pins polished or swapped out, just have two that are a "BIT" stiff in opening/closing on the takedown pin. I'm guessing it's just a TAD sharp on the edges. I can still manipulate them by thumb pressure (no need for a punch), but just irritating when compared to colt/bcm/spikes etc ...nothing I can't live with besides my own personal ocd. It seems interesting that it's MUCH easier to get a hard to push pivot pin than the takedown pin though. Just a pattern I noticed after assembling a sh!t ton of AR lowers the last few years from PSa kits for myself and friends

I'm hoping those pins wear in over time and smooth out a bit so my OCD can rest lol. I'd swap em out but I don't feel like breaking staking on the castle nut, and then buying a new nut and lock plate just to smooth out that pin

PSA's LPKs were the final reason I no longer buy anything from them.  No reason to try and save a couple bucks, and gamble on what kit you might receive from them.

honestly, out of 20 (ish) builds using PSA LPKs, the only thing that I can find fault with is the damn detents for the pins. Other than that (and one out of spec mag catch which was remedied) they've worked flawlessly. Now, I agree with you guys that I won't be buying any more PSA LPKs just because there are others out there for NOT much more that feel better on the fit and finish, but it's not like they're trash. Just a little wonky and inconsistent on the detents. Their uppers are usually a really good value and that's what I tend to order anymore if on sale.

My favorite SO FAR is the BCM, but the spikes is a close second behind it for ease of use and buttery smooth feeling. I'm curious how this sionics kit will do, though I'm not seeing any negative opinions on them.

I'd heard about the sheared bolt catches and buffer retainer pins back in the day, but luckily so far haven't seen them crop back up ever since they switched over to LW Schneider for ther LPKs... their detents are still shit though. That's my biggest contention and what drove me away after having 8 lowers build from them in my collection left

from what I've gathered, schneider is where all their LPKs come from, although their EPT triggers are Schmidt Tooling

Spike's is good to go. I've used 3 of the kits that don't have a trigger and they're good to go. They've been used in rifles for 3 gun that get shot a lot and tossed around.

In my experience PSA kits (minus FCG) have been excellent madness of good quality. Just replace the fire control group with and MBT or ACT trigger. I have bought 3 kits from them with no problems their triggers are rough through.

I have been real happy with the quality of the Sionics kits i have used.  They are in line with BCM IMO.  I have bought their kit with trigger as well and the trigger is nice for the price (similar to ALG ACT and BCM PNT) , but these days i just throw in a Larue MBT

Interested in your feedback, so please post an update whenever you purchase if you can

Since I live only 15 miles from sionics I went in today and picked up two lpks from them minus fcg. Haven't had a chance to build up the lowers yet but I'll update when I do

used two of the sionics kits today on my two lowers from PSA. Honestly, I"m impressed. Looks and feels about on par with my BCM kits. The detents and takedown pins aren't AS smooth as the spikes KNS detents (those kns pins and detents are probably the smoothest out of ANY kit I've ever had), but they're still smooth and very consistent with no extra force required to pop them out besides small thumb pressure. No needing to smack them into place like my PSA kits sometime have. I haven't put on the takedown pin yet as I'm missing a buffer tube kit, but that's the only part needed to finish the build and I'm done. Good kits for a reasonable price. since I change out the grip anyways I don't mind not having another one to just toss in the parts bin. Although it DOES come with the bolt and lock washer for whatever grip you want.

my only complaint is silly really. They use the "mil-spec" pistol grip bolt, which uses the flat head screwdriver to lock it down, and I WAY prefer using hex head bolt or a phillips head as it's MUCH easier to keep in the groove IMO. But that's no biggy as I have a huge ass stash of extra bolts I picked up from Ace Hardware for just this reason

now as for my old PSA comments, I've experimented this weekend. I went out and bought a handful of takedown pin/pivot pin detents from a local gun shop (not sure who the source is), and they're night and day better than the PSA ones I've bitched about. suddenly all my guns pins using PSA build kits operate smoothly (except for those two that would require me to break the staking and back off the castle nut to get to, and even those aren't really bad, just annoying), making me think it really IS a detent issue. at $0.75 each it was easy to grab a large handful and just keep them around for the one psa kit I have left stuck in a box... but for $39.95 for a lower kit where I'm just going to toss in a larue or my extra PNT trigger I have lying around the sionics kits are VERY nice. Plus it has the peace of mind knowing that these kits are used in actual law enforement guns for their contracts... I personally think I'll be buying these from here on out unless I just luck into another PSA kit etc. especially on my "premium" builds. Honestly, really like these Sionics kits

Good stuff. My experience reflects yours.

For future reference the sons of liberty gun works blaster kit is essentially the same kit as Sionics for about the same price and comes with the KNS pins. I prefer the Sionics kits as they have been really consistent but options are always good

Traitor.  Don't be bought off by a hand selected kit.

They will be junk again, soon after


Just kidding, but I really need to find those damn pictures of those kits I got.  Springs kinked nearly in half, take down pins half park'd, others not even fully machined, etc

I picked up two of these to give a try. In my experiences, 9 times out of 10...Aero Precision is a safe bet for a decent product.

https://www.schuylerarmsco.com/summer-sale/ar-15-lpkslower-build-kits-993/ar15-lower-parts-kit-minus-fcgtrigger-guardpistol-grip-993746

I am sure he will pick you a nice one

I have to believe that they ship good ones for the most part.  The have a following that is just too massive for it to be otherwise.  I am just too unlucky to get one from them, it seems.

I really was just busting your chops.  I have an extra Stag if you need it

For $19 I picked up a couple of those as well. But have not installed any.

Please report back and tell us how you like them

I got them in today. I gave them a look over and they appear to be quality. Even finishes, “S” marked safety selector, etc. I won’t know for sure until I get one installed but I’m not seeing any red flags so far.