Posted by yojimbo -Now if Noveske can find a way to chrome line a CMV/4150 poly barrel and maintain the accuracy they will have created the Uber Tactical Barrel !!

I agree 100 %- I received a email from john -stating that a Noveske chrome line barrel is in the works. ( two months out )- I,m going to wait for a Mike Rock chrome line barrel or the Noveske CL barrel which ever comes First !!

I can,t let this cash burn a hole in my pocket

Happy shooting

Quoted: Sharkbait, Just a reminder that ABS barrels can use the Rock blanks or the Pac-Nor polygon blanks with the carbon fiber barrel series or with an all-steel barrel(which we also make). All you have to do is decide which type you want. Also, ABS has the new composite bore lining material which is a very good option compared to chrome, and in our opinion blows chrome totally out of the water in performance and durability and longevity. We apply this to our match barrels, and accuracy performance is unchanged, but wear life and corrosion protection are greatly enhanced beyond what chrome can do. I'd say the "uber tactical" barrel is already here, but it is a quite a bit more expensive than other barrels. One other thing that I'd like to mention is that we have seen a predictable and repeatable velocity increase when using this new composite lining material. The effect is about like adding 2"-3" to the barrel length. We'll talk more about this later after a wider sample of these customer barrels from the group buy hit the chronos, and we'll get a larger statistical sampling of this. Not making any specific claims at this time, but it looks like it's for real because all of our test barrels have shown this.

How much would extra would it cost for a ABS HBAR w/ Composite lining?

Tag, it's time for me to work some more overtime!

Quoted: At this time, we are including the composite barrel lining material at no extra charge, when you buy an ABS carbon fiber barrel.

Damn you guys KICK ASS.

your product and customer sevice are great

i cant wait to get my upper so i can get one of your bbls

Quoted: Sharkbait, Also, ABS has the new composite bore lining material which is a very good option compared to chrome, and in our opinion blows chrome totally out of the water in performance and durability and longevity. We apply this to our match barrels, and accuracy performance is unchanged, but wear life and corrosion protection are greatly enhanced beyond what chrome can do.

Could you elaborate some more on the composite lining?  When I hear "composite", I think carbon fiber, kevlar, something along those lines, but that seems counterintuitive that it would make a good barrel lining.

tag for late night reading.

Quoted: Jmart, While not trying to totally hijack this thread, I'll provide some details, and ask you to contact me offline for more information. This barrel lining material is a new concept in providing bore protection and life extension without the use of chromium plating. Chrome plating, while nice for general military purposes, does not typically provide the uniformity needed in match grade applications. I know chrome has been, and is used in some barrels that shoot well, but it is not ideal for this purpose. We recognized the need for a lining material that would be uniform enough to ensure no degradation of the accuracy that we strive to proviide in our barrels, and be as good or better than any chrome lining in wear and corrosion resistance. After working with a number of formulations, we arrived at the current composite lining that we offer today. It has shown no degradation of our match grade accuracy, goes on much thinner and much more uniformly than any chrome plating can, and has exceeded 30k rounds in a number of our test barrels without showing appreciable wear. The composite is primarily an electroless nickel/silicon-carbide composite. It is harder than chrome, does not micro-crack like chrome, provides an impermeable coating over the barrel steel that better protects the barrel, is impervious to typical chemicals used to clean rifle barrels, is not much more expensive than chrome to implement, and is not as environmentallyhazardous in production as chrome is.  It bonds to the steel bore better than chrome, and has no propensity to flake off like chrome does. It is also currently used in high-tech machinery applications and other industrial purposes where high resistance to wear in high-heat and chemical exposure conditions are required, such as industrial combustion chambers and cylinders of engines. With this lining material, we expect(and have tested to ensure) at least double the normal useful life of our barrels, and perhaps much more than that. And the accuracy is maintained as well as a hand-lapped match grade Mike Rock barrel that we started out with. We feel that this material has met and exceeded our desires, and it is now available as a feature in ABS barrels.

Nice! That sounds pretty kick ass I must say.

BTW, is this referred to as Nikasil (sp??) in combustion chamber applications?

Tag.

A lot of info to read through.
Tag

twl,

Who is your subcontrator for the electroless nickle/silicon carbide lining?  Is the surface hardened to hard chrome hardness?  I have heard that can cause the same microfracture to the substrate metal if heat treated to that hardness level.  Do you have a hardness spec for the lining or any other data you can share?

I would also like to point out that the lining is done on the bore, chamber, gas port, barrel extension, and locking lugs with ABS barrels.  EVERYTHING is coated.  I am one of the people who is having an SBR, polygonal, carbon fiber, lined barrel made and converting it to LW gas piston.  This will be the first LW piston conversion using a milspec SPR gas block which must be pinned in place with a single pin.  This has never been tried before.  I intend to use an ACB LW bolt which is stainless steel.  After checking out the wear characteristics of ElNi/SiC HERE upon itself compared to hard chrome I noticed it has 60X less wear compared to hard chrome on hard chrome.  This, as well as the other charcterisitcs of the coating, has led me to the desire to have the LW Advanced Combat Bolt coated in the same material as the barrel lining from ABS to maintain a coating on coating wear area for the bolt, locking lugs, etc.

This project is going to be used with 75 grain 5.56 pressure ammo which I hope will allow me to exceed the capabilities of a standard M4 14.5" barrel using TAP 75 grain FPD and possibly exceed the capabilites of a 16" barrel from an 11.5" barrel.  I am going out on quite a limb into uncharted territory but I really believe that this is the future for small arms technology.  If my project is a complete flop you guys will be the first to know.  I dont expect to have this rifle together before Christmas.  Barrell is ordered, 5.56 75 grain ammo is ordered, etc. but this is all custom and will take lots of time shipping parts here and there.  Dont expect a range report anytime soon.  I also have NO IDEA if this technology convergance will work so I would not suggest putting yourself out there and risk dumping money into a project of this type unless you can afford for the project to fail.  I cant really afford for the project to fail but did it anyway.  I, however, was also the kid who wanted to see what would REALLY happen if you stuck a giant ball of aluminum foil in the microwave.

You can check out some specs from one of the companies that does an electroless nickle/silicon carbide lining HERE and compare the specs to the specs of their hard chrome coating.  Its amazing stuff.

I actually though about that exact scenario after your EMail about the suppressor issue we discussed and after reading about a "pile of carbon" being deposited over tens of thousands of rounds onto the barrel of a LW upper that was never cleaned to monitor reliabilty issues that might occur.  Thanks for the tip.

TTT, so I don't have to dig for such an excellent topic later.

TWL, have you ever messed around with heat dissipation and thermal barrier coatings? My shop uses them quite often for automotive applications, but I've never really heard of anyone trying them on firearms.

But would a process such as applying a heat dissipation coating to the exterior of a barrel be beneficial?

Quoted: twl, Who is your subcontrator for the electroless nickle/silicon carbide lining?  Is the surface hardened to hard chrome hardness?  I have heard that can cause the same microfracture to the substrate metal if heat treated to that hardness level.  Do you have a hardness spec for the lining or any other data you can share? I would also like to point out that the lining is done on the bore, chamber, gas port, barrel extension, and locking lugs with ABS barrels.  EVERYTHING is coated.  I am one of the people who is having an SBR, polygonal, carbon fiber, lined barrel made and converting it to LW gas piston.  This will be the first LW piston conversion using a milspec SPR gas block which must be pinned in place with a single pin.  This has never been tried before.  I intend to use an ACB LW bolt which is stainless steel.  After checking out the wear characteristics of ElNi/SiC HERE upon itself compared to hard chrome I noticed it has 60X less wear compared to hard chrome on hard chrome.  This, as well as the other charcterisitcs of the coating, has led me to the desire to have the LW Advanced Combat Bolt coated in the same material as the barrel lining from ABS to maintain a coating on coating wear area for the bolt, locking lugs, etc. This project is going to be used with 75 grain 5.56 pressure ammo which I hope will allow me to exceed the capabilities of a standard M4 14.5" barrel using TAP 75 grain FPD and possibly exceed the capabilites of a 16" barrel from an 11.5" barrel.  I am going out on quite a limb into uncharted territory but I really believe that this is the future for small arms technology.  If my project is a complete flop you guys will be the first to know.  I dont expect to have this rifle together before Christmas.  Barrell is ordered, 5.56 75 grain ammo is ordered, etc. but this is all custom and will take lots of time shipping parts here and there.  Dont expect a range report anytime soon.  I also have NO IDEA if this technology convergance will work so I would not suggest putting yourself out there and risk dumping money into a project of this type unless you can afford for the project to fail.  I cant really afford for the project to fail but did it anyway.  I, however, was also the kid who wanted to see what would REALLY happen if you stuck a giant ball of aluminum foil in the microwave. You can check out some specs from one of the companies that does an electroless nickle/silicon carbide lining HERE and compare the specs to the specs of their hard chrome coating.  Its amazing stuff.

Wow...  Add 1" or 3" to your barrel and you've got the concept CQBR and GP uppers I've been saving up for.