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Posted: 1/7/2020 6:41:05 AM EDT
[#1]
strong work. I'll buy one of those scopes. thanks OP
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Posted: 1/7/2020 6:44:42 AM EDT
[#2]
So looks like BA does make nice barrels at least from that one (I'd love to see all kinds if these). Want to see these new Geissele barrels under one.
Edit- I'm sure someone will get on here soon with controlled testing soon enough. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 8:08:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WHAT?! I have long lurked here but I thought the whole point was BCM made EVERYTHING in house? I don’t feel like I’ve drank the koolaid so to speak but what in the actual fuck? |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 8:18:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Fascinating thread. Thanks OP!
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Posted: 1/7/2020 8:48:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F1Z02vuppxP1Pa%2F200.gif&f=1&nofb=1 BCM (IMHO) is the most overrated brand out there. If it weren’t for their symbiotic relationship with TOS, I doubt they’d have half the notoriety they currently possess. I would love to see their marketing budget though. Have not bought any more or recommended any to anyone since then. Quality control should happen at the factory, not the range. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:12:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @forteefiveseventee 8.3" .300 Blackout BA Hanson Pistol Length AR 15 Barrel w/ Lo Pro, Performance Series: Fixed link to product page Edit: for clarification this is a QPQ/nitrided barrel. BA does not advertise is this is CHF or button broached. The tool marks are less pronounced than the FN Collector Series barrel. Note the length of the lands in the throat to leade transition. The #1 and #5 lands are significantly lunger than the rest. Lands are numbered in clockwise sequence from 1 to 5. TDC is 12 o’clock. I have not yet shot this barrel; I’m interested to see how it shoots. BA Performance Series Hanson Profile, .300 AAC BLK, 8.3” pistol, 1/7” 5R, Zero rds. https://i.imgur.com/acRjCs7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YKpcl8D.jpg https://i.imgur.com/lbldaCR.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nK9ueWu.jpg https://i.imgur.com/uiroSQ1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VYyrfbO.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6tRVCBR.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hxod2Wh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/J3t7H9n.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Dv3UG9Q.jpg Now I am going to have to check my FN CHF CL barreled PSA 300BK uppers. Otherwise.. those photos look great. The surfaces are good and smooth looking. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:18:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Double tapped
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:19:29 AM EDT
[#8]
As for the "BCM BFH ELW, 5.56mm, 14.5” carbine, 1 in 7” CHF"... well, the pictures speak for themselves.
I would expect better from BCM then that. Especially given their "high" QC they advertise. I think, I have worn Sawzall metal blades smoother then that bore. 
@MJ11B4P , Thanks for posting this thread. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:28:43 AM EDT
[#9]
BTW... My $89 "Colt" barrel ( probably Green Mountain ) from RTB... looks great compared to a lot of these.
If the OP is interested... I can post unfired images from it. It Is a 20" RLGS Nitrated barrel. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:25:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Interesting. Remind me to never get a bore scope. That’s next level OCD. I’d drive myself bananas. I’m kind of surprised how worn the gas ports on some of those barrels after a relatively low round count.
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:45:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. Remind me to never get a bore scope. I’d drive myself bananas. I’m kind of surprised how worn the gas ports on some of those barrels after a relatively low round count. I expected gas ports to look that rough after thousands of rounds, not hundreds. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 4:45:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. Remind me to never get a bore scope. That's next level OCD. I'd drive myself bananas. I'm kind of surprised how worn the gas ports on some of those barrels after a relatively low round count. 
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 5:04:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My thoughts exactly. I expected gas ports to look that rough after thousands of rounds, not hundreds. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 5:09:12 PM EDT
[#14]
My only BCM was their BFH model and it shot pretty bad. 6" at 100. Only ralized it when I did accuracy comparisons with my x95, and the x95 blew it out of the water. I blamed myself for maybe over torquing the muzzle device, but maybe I didn't... no longer own the rifle. Their filthy fourteen was their big deal and MAC is at 6000 rounds on his with no cleaning. Still never could never understand why they didn't pin low profile gas blocks. Either way, I'll probably avoid them after my experience. Rifle functioned fine, though.
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Posted: 1/7/2020 9:44:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No dude, BCM has traditionally and is known for sourcing parts and assembling not manufacturing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: WHAT?! I have long lurked here but I thought the whole point was BCM made EVERYTHING in house? I don’t feel like I’ve drank the koolaid so to speak but what in the actual fuck? I trust their lower parts kits without reservation. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 9:55:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Ouch. I was planning on buying a BCM upper with a 14.5” barrel, but now I’m reconsidering. I’m happy with the 16” bfh mcmr complete upper I purchased last year from BCM and haven’t had any issues with it, but I haven’t looked inside the bore with a bore scope either. These pics make me want to avoid purchasing BCM barrels in the future.
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Posted: 1/7/2020 10:44:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ouch. I was planning on buying a BCM upper with a 14.5” barrel, but now I’m reconsidering. I’m happy with the 16” bfh mcmr complete upper I purchased last year from BCM and haven’t had any issues with it, but I haven’t looked inside the bore with a bore scope either. These pics make me want to avoid purchasing BCM barrels in the future. 
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:16:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Cool, OP. Looks like I'm out another $50.
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Posted: 1/8/2020 6:16:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what's holding me back from buying one. I have a barrel on a 10" SBR that has seen over 12k rounds. I'm noticing more and more gas leakage around the block and back into the action, but it still groups well. I'd wager the borescope would give me nightmares. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 9:25:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That sounds accurate based on what I've seen/heard over the years. IIRC they get their BCGs from CMT. If you dig into the ATF production reports over the years, it's not actually surprising that BCM doesn't roll their own hardware. Their annual numbers are pretty abysmal. So it doesn't seem viable for them to invest in their own production lines. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 9:57:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Something else here- BCM's BFH barrels are a CHF FN 249 spec, just like every other CHF double thick chrome lined sold by various vendors.
There are people who beiieve all FN CHF barrels are identical besides contour and gas port sizing spec and those who say it's possible for FN to sell them in tiers based on runout, concentricity, etc. If BCM's are so inaccurate they can't be to the same tolerances as Noveske (or PSA, Centurion, Hodge, etc.) to consistently perform orders of magnitude worse than other vendors with almost identical barrels. So either- -Some vendors get higher quality FN 249 barrels that 'spec' better than others -Other vendors haven't been tested as much and they are no better than what BCM sells Or -BCM's monkey torque assembly completely trashes accuracy and the barrels themselves not installed by BCM are as accurate as all the rest I am genuinely curious as to which one of these is most likely. Does Noveske/Hodge sell a better CHF 249 that air guaged better than what BCM splurges for? Molon's Noveske FN CHF light profile only did moderately better than his BCM, 1/2 MOA maybe? It was close enough to consider it variations in individual barrels.(my anecdotal experience roughly mimics Molons- My single Noveske CHF shoots slightly better than 2 BCM's I own. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 11:32:02 AM EDT
[#22]
I am going to start doing counseling sessions for bore scope purchasers. They are going to burn their house down.
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Posted: 1/8/2020 12:03:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something else here- BCM's BFH barrels are a CHF FN 249 spec, just like every other CHF double thick chrome lined sold by various vendors. There are people who beiieve all FN CHF barrels are identical besides contour and gas port sizing spec and those who say it's possible for FN to sell them in tiers based on runout, concentricity, etc. If BCM's are so inaccurate they can't be to the same tolerances as Noveske (or PSA, Centurion, Hodge, etc.) to consistently perform orders of magnitude worse than other vendors with almost identical barrels. So either- -Some vendors get higher quality FN 249 barrels that 'spec' better than others -Other vendors haven't been tested as much and they are no better than what BCM sells Or -BCM's monkey torque assembly completely trashes accuracy and the barrels themselves not installed by BCM are as accurate as all the rest I am genuinely curious as to which one of these is most likely. Does Noveske/Hodge sell a better CHF 249 that air guaged better than what BCM splurges for? Molon's Noveske FN CHF light profile only did moderately better than his BCM, 1/2 MOA maybe? It was close enough to consider it variations in individual barrels.(my anecdotal experience roughly mimics Molons- My single Noveske CHF shoots slightly better than 2 BCM's I own. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 12:15:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to start doing counseling sessions for bore scope purchasers. They are going to burn their house down. 
As a recent borescope purchaser this is very true. LOL |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 12:18:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will get acceptable combat accuracy. I have a 16-inch BCM midlength LW upper, not CHF. I actually got some surprising groups with it. Zero at 50 yards with a Holosun red dot and it's roughly a dime sized group. I am sure it opens up at 100 yards. Maybe 2MOA barrel. https://i.imgur.com/8BaxBZo.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ouch. I was planning on buying a BCM upper with a 14.5” barrel, but now I’m reconsidering. I’m happy with the 16” bfh mcmr complete upper I purchased last year from BCM and haven’t had any issues with it, but I haven’t looked inside the bore with a bore scope either. These pics make me want to avoid purchasing BCM barrels in the future. https://i.imgur.com/8BaxBZo.jpg |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 3:12:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My BCM SOCOM barreled upper is 6-7 years old & one of the better shooting ARs I’ve ever owned. |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 4:10:48 PM EDT
[#27]
So been looking for a good bore scope after seeing this I will buy the same one. Thanks. Gonna suck though going OCD on all 16+ rifles. I just put together a new duty upper and almost put a BCM barrel since almost all of the gun has BCM or Geissele parts in it but went Centurion 12.5 for the barrel, now I am glad I did.
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Posted: 1/8/2020 5:22:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...and Molon's test of the Colt SOCOM 14.5" was stunning, match quality in a chrome lined military barrel. Under an inch for 10 round groups at 100 yards. |
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Posted: 1/9/2020 6:56:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to start doing counseling sessions for bore scope purchasers. They are going to burn their house down. https://i.imgur.com/h7BHpXF.jpg (checks will of course still happen but knowing the bore is crap may shed light on those that otherwise can't be figured out) I'll be leaving alone the rigs that shoot well, because I'm sure I'd be freaking out.
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Posted: 1/9/2020 10:09:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So been looking for a good bore scope after seeing this I will buy the same one. Thanks. Gonna suck though going OCD on all 16+ rifles. I just put together a new duty upper and almost put a BCM barrel since almost all of the gun has BCM or Geissele parts in it but went Centurion 12.5 for the barrel, now I am glad I did. Hopefully Centurion would be more likely to catch something like this, but if this is what BCM got from FN, any other company who uses FN CHF barrels could receive and sell a barrel that looks as bad as this one. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:36:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The same company that did the chrome lining and forged that BCM barrel is the same on the Centurion as well. They're essentially identical other than profile and gas port. Hopefully Centurion would be more likely to catch something like this, but if this is what BCM got from FN, any other company who uses FN CHF barrels could receive and sell a barrel that looks as bad as this one. I'm not saying BCM doesn't use FN barrels, I just haven't seen any proof. And many things widely accepted as fact here and TOS in the past have turned out to be false. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 1:44:42 AM EDT
[#32]
That BCM barrel is disappointing. I bought a bcm 11.5 MCMR upper in april of 2019 and at 100yds itll shoot a 1.9" 5 round group. Not the best by any means (im an accuracy whore) but being an SBR im happy with a 2moa group.
Im intrigued now since I zerod a buddies 16" BCM BFH upper on yesterday and I had about a 1.4" group at 36 yards (he wanted a 36yd zero) but I figured it was the shitty 4moa vortex dot. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 10:00:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never really seen definitive proof that BCM uses FN barrels for their CHF line, even after searching extensively for it for quite some time. Is there any documentation of this somewhere? I don't think BCM has ever specified that they get their's from FN, and considering that using FN 249 hammer forged barrels is about the best selling point there is for durability and quality in a barrel, I don't see why they wouldn't make it well known if they used them. I'm not saying BCM doesn't use FN barrels, I just haven't seen any proof. And many things widely accepted as fact here and TOS in the past have turned out to be false. Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never really seen definitive proof that BCM uses FN barrels for their CHF line, even after searching extensively for it for quite some time. Is there any documentation of this somewhere? I don't think BCM has ever specified that they get their's from FN, and considering that using FN 249 hammer forged barrels is about the best selling point there is for durability and quality in a barrel, I don't see why they wouldn't make it well known if they used them. I'm not saying BCM doesn't use FN barrels, I just haven't seen any proof. And many things widely accepted as fact here and TOS in the past have turned out to be false. "Are these BCM BFHF barrels going to be "double" Cr lined like those other guy's barrels? and made from M249 steel or blanks?" "Yes , the steel specs are the same.
The M16 chrome spec is not necessarily thinner. It actually has a larger variance and can be about 50% thicker." |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 11:46:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@forteefiveseventee 8.3" .300 Blackout BA Hanson Pistol Length AR 15 Barrel w/ Lo Pro, Performance Series: Fixed link to product page Edit: for clarification this is a QPQ/nitrided barrel. BA does not advertise is this is CHF or button broached. The tool marks are less pronounced than the FN Collector Series barrel. Note the length of the lands in the throat to leade transition. The #1 and #5 lands are significantly lunger than the rest. Lands are numbered in clockwise sequence from 1 to 5. TDC is 12 o’clock. I have not yet shot this barrel; I’m interested to see how it shoots. BA Performance Series Hanson Profile, .300 AAC BLK, 8.3” pistol, 1/7” 5R, Zero rds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone have any bore scope pics of Ballistic Advantage barrels? Especially the Hanson barrels. Would love to know how they compare to some of these. 8.3" .300 Blackout BA Hanson Pistol Length AR 15 Barrel w/ Lo Pro, Performance Series: Fixed link to product page Edit: for clarification this is a QPQ/nitrided barrel. BA does not advertise is this is CHF or button broached. The tool marks are less pronounced than the FN Collector Series barrel. Note the length of the lands in the throat to leade transition. The #1 and #5 lands are significantly lunger than the rest. Lands are numbered in clockwise sequence from 1 to 5. TDC is 12 o’clock. I have not yet shot this barrel; I’m interested to see how it shoots. BA Performance Series Hanson Profile, .300 AAC BLK, 8.3” pistol, 1/7” 5R, Zero rds. Thanks for the pics and info. I suppose they could have reamed that throat off-center, or maybe it's just an acceptable variance, given that those longer lands in to the throat to leade transition are probably not going to engage the bullet anyway? Will be interesting to see how it shoots. Looking forward to your review of that. I am in SC also, we may know each other! I did go ahead and order one of those bore scopes and plan to try and get some shots of my two BA Hanson profile barrels this weekend or next. I have a 16" pencil and a 10.3" standard. Both shoot very well and are very accurate so far. Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 12:20:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hopefully Centurion would be more likely to catch something like this, but if this is what BCM got from FN, any other company who uses FN CHF barrels could receive and sell a barrel that looks as bad as this one. In Mr.GunsNGears testing Centurions FN barreled (positively confirmed) CM4 rifle outshot dd's delta 5 bolt action rifle despite being a gas gun, having milspec trigger, using a much lighter projectile (5.56 v.s. 6.5 creedmore) and in significant wind (v.s dead calm conditions for the dd test). That is simply embarrasing and abysmal from a overpriced, so called "precision/tactical" rifle that should have had the advantage in action, projectile weight/type and presumably trigger. See for yourself.. dd's delta 5 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bGFW3NjRI_U Centurion's CM4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-U |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 2:59:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Paul(owner) from BCM has basically confirmed it multiple times. They won't come out and say 'these are FN barrels", but he has confirmed they are the same spec as the 249, and they have thicker chrome lining. FN is the only supplier doing this I know of. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 6:35:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Great technical thread - thank you OP.
I keep reading about how bad BCM barrels are. I've had 23 factory assembled BCM uppers since they started selling them, and not one was worse than 2 MOA. Maybe I'm lucky in this regard, but that would be unusual as my gun luck is usually awful. The only BCM problem I had was right after they started selling lowers. I bought a couple of their complete lowers to go with the half dozen uppers I had. The first 3 lowers were so loose I could stick a paper match between the receiver halves. I exchanged them, and haven't had a problem since. All told, I've spent MANY MANY MANY thousands of dollars on BCM gear over the years, and have advised many others to do so. Outside of the lame sloppy first run lowers all of my BCM stuff has been 100%. My current BCM guns shoot as well as my Colt, DD, and LMT guns. I can't see a difference in performance from one to the next with the exception being the LMT CQB / MRP shooting much softer than the others. Accuracy is about the same at 50 and 100. I can easily get sub 1" three-round groups at 50 with all of them. Five rounds opens them up to around 1" to 1.25" using an Aimpoint. 100 yards they're all about 2" with a 4x ACOG. ETA: I'm afraid to bore scope any of them now since they work and I don't want something to get in my head about their construction. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 7:40:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why won't they come and say 'these are FN barrels'? There's no reason they can't or shouldn't. Many other high-quality AR makers explicitly state this and rightfully so. It is a positive selling point. The whole thing just seems weird and it makes me suspect they are not FN barrels... Which is fine, because they don't claim to be FN barrels. They are getting a premium for things because people think it's something special. If I can get the same thing from PSA (FN barrel and a Toolcraft or whatever bolt) then I'll just go pay less money. |
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Posted: 1/10/2020 11:07:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were selling those barrels before anyone advertised they were FN. They are getting a premium for things because people think it's something special. If I can get the same thing from PSA (FN barrel and a Toolcraft or whatever bolt) then I'll just go pay less money. I'd agree with the previous that publicly known FN barrels would make me much more likely to buy a BCM. Not that BCM isn't good, but when you have a company with the experience and reputation of FN, would seem like a no brainer to me. But I also see your point where, yes, at that point you're paying for a roll mark, assembly, and quality control over a PSA. Still, I think many would find that totally worth it.
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Posted: 1/10/2020 11:38:41 PM EDT
[#40]
I had an opportunity to tour the FN factory a few months ago. Unfortunately my tour guide was a QA guy and was not well versed in the manufacturing processes. CHF barrels were not being produced at the time of the tour.
CHF is touted as producing uniform chambers and bores... Why all the radial tool marks? Are they picked up from the mandrel or artifacts from the initial bore drilling process? |
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Posted: 1/11/2020 12:34:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why won't they come and say 'these are FN barrels'? There's no reason they can't or shouldn't. Many other high-quality AR makers explicitly state this and rightfully so. It is a positive selling point. The whole thing just seems weird and it makes me suspect they are not FN barrels... Which is fine, because they don't claim to be FN barrels. I think in the height of BCM's popularity, with filthy 14 going around, they wanted to rely on their own reputation for selling stuff, whereas the places not deemed as reliable had to rely on another companies name for clout. Who really knows? There have been posts by BCM themselves on various forums, and people deeply connected and involved with them flat out say they are FN barrels. Entirely possible they are not, but if I had to bet money on it I'd say they were. |
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Posted: 1/11/2020 12:40:38 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will get acceptable combat accuracy. I have a 16-inch BCM midlength LW upper, not CHF. I actually got some surprising groups with it. Zero at 50 yards with a Holosun red dot and it's roughly a dime sized group. I am sure it opens up at 100 yards. Maybe 2MOA barrel. https://i.imgur.com/8BaxBZo.jpg |
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Posted: 1/12/2020 2:52:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had an opportunity to tour the FN factory a few months ago. Unfortunately my tour guide was a QA guy and was not well versed in the manufacturing processes. CHF barrels were not being produced at the time of the tour. CHF is touted as producing uniform chambers and bores... Why all the radial tool marks? Are they picked up from the mandrel or artifacts from the initial bore drilling process? |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 8:59:26 AM EDT
[#44]
This should be tacked at the top.
Awesome post. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:20:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:41:13 AM EDT
[#46]
Wow I’ve never seen such good close up pics like that.
Since when did BCM get poor reports on their barrels? Are these just new versions of their barrels they’re pushing out? Or older versions as well? |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:01:49 AM EDT
[#47]
When it comes to longevity of CL barrels, the two things that differentiate the best from everyone else are surface finish prior to chrome lining and the steps undertaken to ensure adhesion of the chrome.
Colt does that better than anyone...Colt CL barrels out last FNs by a long ways. It's not magic...but Colt has the process down. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:14:52 AM EDT
[#48]
So OP, what's the solution, if any, to fix your "bad" barrels? Will Firelapping help or polishing compound on a mop?
Thanks for posting! |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 12:11:51 PM EDT
[#49]
I was about to buy a BCM 11.5 upper. My 16" one has been fine but I've never tried any type of "precision" shooting. Might have to rethink that that choice, but I'm not sure. Any other recommendations for completed mlok upper around 10.5-12.5" to complicate my buying process?
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:28:50 PM EDT
[#50]
I second all the thanks for posting the pics. I was surprised also -not by the BCM barrel, I have a 16" with a low round count and it's the most inaccurate rifle I own. Even my sub-$100 Ballistic Advantage barrels which are shorter Are more accurate.
The Colt and one FN barrel did surprise me. My first thought as I read your posts were "I need to get more FN barrels!" I still do because I think they still make a great barrel, but to be honest my Rainier Arms and BA barrels have served me well - but I see a borescope in my future because I really want to know what's inside!!! Thank you again for taking the time to take the pics and make such an awesome post. one question does the borescope allow you to connect your phone or something to it? well done! |
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