Quoted: Thanks for your reponses.  Some of you didn't notice that I said both the AK and AR would be scoped.

Yea, scoping it makes a AK more accurate.
All the scope does is reduce human error.


The only way to get an AK47 to be match grade accurate is to remove the magazine and fit it to another rifle.

860 yard shots

Ok, I await the comparable AK video...what's that, there isn't one?

ETA: More long-range AR shooting.
AR, 680y

Quoted: With the inaccuracy of the AK is it even possible to hit a car at 500 yds??

Something THAT size wouldn't be too much trouble.  The trick is getting the range estimated correctly.   How many can tell the difference between 400 & 500yds without the aid of a laser range finder? Actually at that range, hitting 18in wide metal gongs is doable with a 7.62x39 AK and iron sights, but far from ideal.  Between 400 & 500yds, there is about another 40+ inches of drop in the trajectory. On a known distance range, if I take my time I can make hits that far, but they are not consistent.  At 300, the consistency goes up to usually 10/10.  Personally I don't like scoping an AK, but thats just me.

For me, my first choice would be a 20in AR w/scope.

Take another look at that video of the AR shooting at 860yd, notice the smack that the bullet is making.  I would not want to be on the receiving end of that!

Sorry, but in your initial scenario, IMO you made a very costly mistake.  You mention you have to carry everything.  IMO, if it is bad enough you can't load up everything you have pre-planned to take in your ride and move, you need to bunker up in your house and be dropping everything/everyone you see.

I live in a rural area, so in YOUR scenario I bunker up and no one even thinks about coming down my driveway around the other cars that have been blown up in my driveway.  Alot of legal things go BOOM when shot by a little 556 bullet.  

When I lived in the city, the plan for something that bad is to get out of town first, if you can't do that, bunker up in your house.  The farthest you should move would be next door in the event your house catches fire.  And in that situation, you take everything you can carry and get out.  

In both the rural and the neighborhood scenario, I grab my 556 first.  I would grab that over your AK, and MY 30-06 bolt gun that I know I can hit people with at 500 yds.  And much like the 556, I have more ammo for that 06 than I would want to carry anywhere.  So ammo availibilty is not in the decision of what I am grabbing.

Lumpy said: So basically this thread is for affirmation of what you've already convinced yourself of?

No, but some people can hit with an AK at 500 yards.  Having done it all day long, it is interesting to hear that it cannot be done.


As soon as the snow melts I think I will try an 800 yard with both the AK and the 75grn 5.56 to see the difference. Just for fun.  I will try to cut a video of it for everyone.

AT 500 yards

5.56/223 m16/AR15  anyday  OVER AK47


BTW I do like the AK47/74



I like to SEE the AK47 500yard Groups Compared to a AR15/M16  SPR/SDM

Army sniper friend says 308 is what they use ..

My thoughts on this are as follows: You'd be hard pressed to hit anything (besides a barn) at 500 yards with an AK-47.  Even if the 5.56 round has the terminal ballistics of a .22 mag at 500 yards, I would still rather be able to hit my target at that range with that round as opposed to missing completely.

Quoted: My thoughts on this are as follows: You'd be hard pressed to hit anything (besides a barn) at 500 yards with an AK-47.  Even if the 5.56 round has the terminal ballistics of a .22 mag at 500 yards, I would still rather be able to hit my target at that range with that round as opposed to missing completely.

Even a darning needle will collapse a lung and or rupture the ascending or descending vena cava or aorta. Any of these series of events is very bad. Just because the 5.56 won't flip over and fragment like crazy at that range does not mean it isn't just as deadly as Mike Tyson after a 3-day fast.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: My thoughts on this are as follows: You'd be hard pressed to hit anything (besides a barn) at 500 yards with an AK-47.  Even if the 5.56 round has the terminal ballistics of a .22 mag at 500 yards, I would still rather be able to hit my target at that range with that round as opposed to missing completely. Even a darning needle will collapse a lung and or rupture the ascending or descending vena cava or aorta. Any of these series of events is very bad. Just because the 5.56 won't flip over and fragment like crazy at that range does not mean it isn't just as deadly as Mike Tyson after a 3-day fast.

That's what I'm saying.  I know I wouldn't want to be shot by a .22 mag.

What's with the 7.62x39 vs. 5.56 comparison at range.  Just because the AK's sight goes out to 1000M don't mean that's it's effective range.  I can nail a 500yd 24" gong with my AK and I can do it with my M4 as well.  I might not be able to do it with as few shots using the AK as I can with the AR.  The AK wasn't meant to be a 600yd + weapon.  It's kind of like comparing an M16 to a Barrett .50cal.  Sure the .50 can shoot farther.  It's meant to.  The AK is fine out to 400-500yds.  Most combat engagments are at that distance or less anyhow.  That's why SVD's and PSL's are issued to platoon members.  To extend the effective range of the force.  Out of a CZ 452 the 7.62x39 does well.  

CMS

If I was shooting at ONLY  400 or 500 yards I wouldnt grab a AK47

Heck I consider my 14.5 M4 a 200/300m weapon

Yes I can shoot further

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My thoughts on this are as follows: You'd be hard pressed to hit anything (besides a barn) at 500 yards with an AK-47.  Even if the 5.56 round has the terminal ballistics of a .22 mag at 500 yards, I would still rather be able to hit my target at that range with that round as opposed to missing completely. Even a darning needle will collapse a lung and or rupture the ascending or descending vena cava or aorta. Any of these series of events is very bad. Just because the 5.56 won't flip over and fragment like crazy at that range does not mean it isn't just as deadly as Mike Tyson after a 3-day fast. That's what I'm saying.  I know I wouldn't want to be shot by a .22 mag.

Now you guys are getting why I don't think M855 ball is a bad SHTF round. I would rather put a hole thru a light barrier and venilate the BG behind it than have the bullet stop in the barrier. I am extremely familiar with its limitations.

Your original question asked which one you should care as a "primary go-to platform" if you could only carry one in an emergency, and you limited the choices to the AK and the AR.  You then gave the application of having to shoot at 500 yards.

Answering only your question(s) here, I'd choose the AR, preferably something in 20" and with 75 or 77gr ammo, as others have said, to get the terminal ballistics.  

Expanding a bit, if I could have the freedom to carry TWO long arms in an emergency/survival situation, I'd probably want an lighter M4/mid-length AR, plus a lightweight .308 bolt rifle such as a "Weather Warrior" Savage 16, which only weighs about 7 pounds.  Then I could use the tool most effective for the job at hand, and with those two rifles, you could do everything from nailing a rabbit for supper to shooting through walls.  The .308 rifle would be the ideal choice for the 500-yard scenario.