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| "Bill Wylde had the idea to create a chamber that would serve the 5.56 and the .223 Remington equally well. The .223 Wylde has the same chamber angling as the standard 5.56 chamber, so there’s no problem with pressures, and it also has a .2240 freebore diameter. The result? You have a chamber that is sufficient to handle the hotter 5.56 load without concerns about pressure and you get the gilt-edge accuracy that’s common in many quality .223 rifles." |
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@Italianstalion
In my experience, Frontier XM193 wasn't even that hot (over pressure loaded rounds aside)! Did you see my M193 clones velocity thread? (there are three parts) |
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Quoted:
You may want to revisit that notion? Every AR I own is a 5.56 chamber. Besides, you've given 4 examples of Kabooms out of who knows how many rounds produced and or shot? (and limited to certain lot or lots?) The problem could have and problaby has been resolved a while ago. Otherwise you would hear of widespread Kabooms all over the place. |
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Quoted:
@Italianstalion In my experience, Frontier XM193 wasn't even that hot (over pressure loaded rounds aside)! Did you see my M193 clones velocity thread? (there are three parts) |
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Quoted: I know what you're saying about the Wylde Chamber but it may have been a contributing factor? Every AR I own is a 5.56 chamber. Besides, you've given 4 examples of Kabooms out of who knows how many rounds produced and or shot? (and limited to certain lot or lots?) The problem could have and problaby has been resolved a while ago. Otherwise you would hear of widespread Kabooms all over the place. At least we are not sharing the range. 
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Quoted: Thanks. I see they had problems 6 months ago.. but it looks like it's full powered 5.56 stuff and I'm sure just limited to a few lots.( Which are most likely not one of the ones in my purchase) I'm happy with my purchase. I can cancel but I won't. |
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It arrived.
It's bulk packed. I took 30 rounds at random and checked them in my case gauge. All were fine. I also measured them with my calipers. Most were 2.200 on the nose. A few were 2.203-2.205. The brass is clean and annealed just like military brass. I also shook the cases and the load is definitely not compressed. I will pull a few bullets from random rounds and weigh the powder this weekend. 
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Quoted:
Then why are you asking? . We know that some folks reported problems with this ammo. But statistically the Kabooms represent a very tiny percentage of rounds produced and or folks who used this ammunition. It's sucks that guys had Kabooms and to read the threads and see the pics can be alarming and make; folks fears and emotions take over etc .. Like I stated several times, if this problem were widespread, you would read and hear of Kabooms happening on a regular basis. So far, we have what 4 or 5 guys over the course of a year? |
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Quoted: Oh fuck. More shaken ammo syndrome. 
Can you tell if its underpowered by shaking them?  I just did the Blain Test as a preliminary way to check if the charge was compressed. The sloshing of powder is indicative of powder that is not compressed. |
Lot number.
The lot number in one of the kaboom threads is SMQ18C844-002 https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Hornady-Frontier-over-pressure-/16-736486/ Mine is SMQ18L868-016 Edited to add. I just found the lot number from another Frontier Kaboom thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Witnessed-a-KABOOM-today-Updated-pics-on-page-5/5-2145296/?page=1url=https://ibb.co/y4pQRfy] 
We have lots SMQ18C844-002 and SMQ18C844-003 that had rounds kaboom. Looks like someone was asleep on the production line during that time period. |
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Quoted:
You obviously have your mind set. I'll watch for the possible kaboom thread. You'd be better off purchasing lottery tickets than watching for a kaboom thread because that's about the same odds that it will happen. It can happen but very unlikely. |
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Sir:
I cant imagine you finding anything else than the other poster, but go ahead. Shaking a cartridge tells you nothing about the powder inside, but go ahead. SINCE THERE IS NO WAY WHATSO EVER TO IDENTIFY THE POWDER, you cannot make any comments about "too hot," "too much powder." But go ahead. If you don't understand the different chambers involved (supposedly) in this, or anything else for that matter, means your thoughts, to be honest, wont be that informative. But go ahead. Do what ever you want...……………….. (PS.... changed to reflect the fact that you cannot determine the identity of a powder simply by looking at it, weighing it or shaking it) |
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Quoted:
Sir: I cant imagine you finding anything else than the other poster, but go ahead. Shaking a cartridge tells you nothing about the powder inside, but go ahead. WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE POWDER, you cannot make any comments about "too hot," "too much powder." But go ahead. If you don't understand the different chambers involved (supposedly) in this, or anything else for that matter, means your thoughts, to be honest, wont be that informative. But go ahead. Do what ever you want...……………….. It is a PRELIMINARY test to see if the case is full and or charge is compressed. That is all. Also the first step is to weigh the powder. After that, perhaps someone with knowledge can identify the type they use. As far as the Wylde Chamber, it's not the same as 5.56. It may have contributed to the situation. Who knows? Also please read my post about the problems with this ammunition being limited to the two sequencial lot numbers.i posted. SMQ18C844-002 and SMQ18C844-003 The lot number I purchased is SMQ18L868-016. |
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Quoted: Thanks. That was very informative. According to the powder charges, this stuff in the Ops lot is loaded very hot( no matter which powder is used) and all it would take is a charge a couple of tenths more to have problems.( and or an EXCESSIVE crimp) Anything above 27 grains, you're getting a or very close to a compressed load( depending on the powder), with 55 grain bullets. I don't load my " hot" loads with nearly that much powder . Like I previously stated, with a smaller charge, the margin of error is greater before running into overpressure. ETA: Before someone says it, yes powder lots vary. Not every run would have 28.5 grains, but it could have up to that. |
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Quoted: You realize m193 spec is 28.5 grains of WC844, right? This stuff...case, powder, primer...is m193 but with a Hornady supplied bullet. ETA: Before someone says it, yes powder lots vary. Not every run would have 28.5 grains, but it could have up to that. Edited to add I have used H335 and according to what I read, the two are very similar. If that's the case, the Frontier 5.56 55 grain could be loaded hot with anything over 27 grains. 28 grains is extremely hot. I'm going to pull a bullet or two this weekend and weigh the powder. |
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Um yeah I just got back from Cabelas and bought
a couple boxes of Frontier 5.56 55gr fmj. I just seen this thread, now I'm scared to shoot this stuff lol. But in retrospect I remember reading about some shit on Aquila 5.56 and the batch I got was fine. I guess we'll be the Guinea pigs 
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Quoted:
Um yeah I just got back from Cabelas and bought a couple boxes of Frontier 5.56 55gr fmj. I just seen this thread, now I'm scared to shoot this stuff lol. But in retrospect I remember reading about some shit on Aquila 5.56 and the batch I got was fine. I guess we'll be the Guinea pigs https://i.ibb.co/r4HFzr4/20190815-190743.jpg |
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Quoted:
I've never used WC844. Edited to add I have used H335 and according to what I read, the two are very similar. If that's the case, the Frontier 5.56 55 grain could be loaded hot with anything over 27 grains. 28 grains is extremely hot. I'm going to pull a bullet or two this weekend and weigh the powder. Quoted:
Quoted: You realize m193 spec is 28.5 grains of WC844, right? This stuff...case, powder, primer...is m193 but with a Hornady supplied bullet. ETA: Before someone says it, yes powder lots vary. Not every run would have 28.5 grains, but it could have up to that. Edited to add I have used H335 and according to what I read, the two are very similar. If that's the case, the Frontier 5.56 55 grain could be loaded hot with anything over 27 grains. 28 grains is extremely hot. I'm going to pull a bullet or two this weekend and weigh the powder. any more or precisely than the other poster and finally have decided that by mere description, a load can be too hot...……… Then to top this off, you're only going to test a "a bullet or two" as if a small sample is enough to figure this out? Ok...…… cool...………. post what you got. |
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Quoted: I'll admit I'm curious ……. so you admit you've not used the common powders in question, don't fully understand the chambers (ie Wylde vs 5.56 etc) , that you don't have any means of testing this any more or precisely than the other poster and finally have decided that by mere description, a load can be too hot...……… Then to top this off, you're only going to test a "a bullet or two" as if a small sample is enough to figure this out? Ok...…… cool...………. post what you got. And yes, this load can ( potentially) be too hot if this WC844 is anywhere remotely close to H335. As far as the Wylde Chamber, it's non standard and could have contributed in some unknown way? |
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Quoted: I just want to get a general idea of how much powder is loaded in my particular lot. And yes, this load can ( potentially) be too hot if this WC844 is anywhere remotely close to H335. As far as the Wylde Chamber, it's non standard and could have contributed in some unknown way? |
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A. I only own 5.56mm chamber firearms, 100% of which have MPI bolts and barrels and properly staked BCGs, mostly Colts.
B. I shoot ~100-200 rounds of Frontier once or twice a month from the 5.56 rifle du jour. C. Never had a problem, accuracy is acceptable, no kabooms or other failures. D. Will continue to buy it. |
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Quoted: So much bullshit. 28ish grains of WC844 is not “too hot.” It’s the spec on M193. You’re talking about the most commonly used powder for 5.56 production loads in the USA. It’s it’s 55gr, advertised at a 5.56 load, and comes out of Lake City, that’s what you get. This is why many manufacturers download 5.56 ammunition because milspec has been causing Kabooms. Also from what I've read, WC844 isn't all the same. The burn rates vary. |
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Quoted:
Sir: You've been talking about this for a week...……….. post your results of whatever test you are going to do and move on. Stop talking and do the test. Thank you for posting the lot numbers. Now post the results of whatever test you are going to do...…………. |
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Quoted:
This shit should be in GD. Which anyone could've got in the other threads. There has been no test, just arguing about facts already known. A test, well actually more of an evaluation, was already done by another and the OP offers no new details, nothing. There is no point to this thread. This should be either locked or moved. This is a burnt burger...…………………. |
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Quoted:
Um yeah I just got back from Cabelas and bought a couple boxes of Frontier 5.56 55gr fmj. I just seen this thread, now I'm scared to shoot this stuff lol. But in retrospect I remember reading about some shit on Aquila 5.56 and the batch I got was fine. I guess we'll be the Guinea pigs https://i.ibb.co/r4HFzr4/20190815-190743.jpg |
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I'd like to add something technical to this thread.
I carefully read the thread where the guy disassembled and weighed his Frontier Ammunition. https://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=2235264 He loaded 5 rounds with 27.8 grains of powder. I''m assuming this is the typical charge he found when he weighed the rounds he disassembled. Quote from his thread. "So here's what I did: Weighed every powder charge in every case. Low was 27.4 grains, High was 28.1 grains" Anyway, when he posted a pic of the rounds, there were ejector marks and flattened primers. 
Both are pressure signs. As I suspected, this ammo is loaded hot. When I shoot mine, I'll post pics of the brass as well but I'm fairly certain that I'll have the flattened primers as well. I'll be surprised if I don't. As far as disassembling the rounds, I'm planning on doing a couple in the morning. After I weigh the powder, I'll dump it back in the cases and reseat the bullets and crimp.. If I get a chance, I'll shoot some of it this weekend and report my findings with pics. |
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Quoted:
I'd like to add something technical to this thread. I carefully read the thread where the guy disassembled and weighed his Frontier Ammunition. https://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=2235264 He loaded 5 rounds with 27.8 grains of powder. I''m assuming this is the typical charge he found when he weighed the rounds he disassembled. Quote from his thread. "So here's what I did: Weighed every powder charge in every case. Low was 27.4 grains, High was 28.1 grains" Anyway, when he posted a pic of the rounds, there were ejector marks and flattened primers. https://i.ibb.co/NZS0CTY/I6Licnl.jpg Both are pressure signs. As I suspected, this ammo is loaded hot. When I shoot mine, I'll post pics of the brass as well but I'm fairly certain that I'll have the flattened primers as well. I'll be surprised if I don't. As far as disassembling the rounds, I'm planning on doing a couple in the morning. After I weigh the powder, I'll dump it back in the cases and reseat the bullets and crimp.. If I get a chance, I'll shoot some of it this weekend and report my findings with pics. Some would have simply taken the other posters findings as their own. Sir: I stopped looking after finding 5 published-in-manuals- open to the public- loads which meet or exceed 27.8 grains of powder for a 55gr FMJ bullet. Two of which max out at 28.5 and 28.6 grains respectively...……... You cannot determine if a load is too hot by: shaking it, stirring it, looking at it, talking to it or weighing it. There are 2 ways of doing so and they are far beyond your capabilities...………. BTW..... those cases look fine to me. The edges of the primers are rounded, there is no firing pin hole flow and those are not ejector swipes. (except, maybe, just maybe one). Those cases are fine. |
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I pulled two bullets from two random cartridges in the box.
They were easy to pull. There appears to be little to no crimp. The bullets weigh exactly 55 grains on the nose. The diameter is perfect. Both cartridges contained 27.4 grains of powder. They were originally both seated to 2.200. When I reseated them, I did to 2.240. ( where my die is set) I didn't crimp. I have those cartridges, along with 18 more loaded in a 20 round mag;for the next range trip. 
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Quoted: Thank you for acknowledging the source of an actual evaluation of this ammo. Some would have simply taken the other posters findings as their own. You cannot determine if a load is too hot by: shaking it, stirring it, looking at it, talking to it or weighing it. There are 2 ways of doing so and they are far beyond your capabilities...………. BTW..... those cases look fine to me. The edges of the primers are rounded, there is no firing pin hole flow and those are not ejector swipes. (except, maybe, just maybe one). Those cases are fine. Once you have the weight, then all you need to know is the type of powder to make a determination.(or at least an educated guess) As far as shaking goes, it was a preliminary test to see if the case was full and or compressed. It was not full and or compressed; so the shake test has some limited and legitimate uses. According to the OP, he had ejector marks on all of the cases . Perhaps they aren't clearly visible in the photograph. The primers look a little flattened to me. |
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Quoted:
Sir, I respectfully disagree with your statement; as far as weighing the power goes. Once you have the weight, As far as shaking goes, it was a preliminary test to see if the case was full and or compressed. It was not full and or compressed; so the shake test has some limited and legitimate uses. According to the OP, he had ejector marks on all of the cases . Perhaps they aren't clearly visible in the photograph. The primers look a little flattened to me. Quoted:
Quoted: Thank you for acknowledging the source of an actual evaluation of this ammo. Some would have simply taken the other posters findings as their own. You cannot determine if a load is too hot by: shaking it, stirring it, looking at it, talking to it or weighing it. There are 2 ways of doing so and they are far beyond your capabilities...………. BTW..... those cases look fine to me. The edges of the primers are rounded, there is no firing pin hole flow and those are not ejector swipes. (except, maybe, just maybe one). Those cases are fine. Once you have the weight, As far as shaking goes, it was a preliminary test to see if the case was full and or compressed. It was not full and or compressed; so the shake test has some limited and legitimate uses. According to the OP, he had ejector marks on all of the cases . Perhaps they aren't clearly visible in the photograph. The primers look a little flattened to me. There are literally 10 or so different powders they could've used to load this ammunition up. It is beyond your capabilities to figure out which one. And they aren't going to tell you. |
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