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5.56 & M193 Velocity Shoot Off!!! (+ Bonus): Part I (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/25/2018 2:00:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blain][Edited]
 Velocities in all tests were conducted using a Chrony Alpha Master Chronograph. Tests in the control group and on test day 2 were recorded from a measured 9 feet (3 yards) from the actually muzzle of the firearm and 12 feet (4 yards) from the muzzle on test day 1. Control group was a test I did back in 2015 where I recorded the velocities from the same 18” CHF barrel at around 78 degrees F with an older lot of Federal XM193 (2012). It is listed here for purposes of comparison. For those who will critique the difference in the chronograph distances between the tests (3 vs. 4 yards), the actual differences in velocity is actually negligible. According to Federal's Ballistics calculator, https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator , the difference in velocity from 3 yards to 4 yards is usually ~5 fps at most, and typically even less depending on bullet type and muzzle velocity. For those interested in calculating actually muzzle velocity, from all velocities measured, according to the aforementioned ballistics calculator, the actual muzzle velocity should be ~ + 15 fps from the shots recorded at 12 ft (4 yards) and ~ +10 fps from velocities recorded from 9 feet (3 yrds) I'd also like to mention that temperature does play a large role in bullet velocities. As many know, hotter temperatures will effect the gunpowder in a way that leads to higher pressures and velocities. That's why it's generally not a good idea to work up hot handloads in the winter and then use those same loads in summer, you may get over pressure issues. The general rule of thumb is you gain / loose ~1 fps velocity for every ~1 degree F in temperature change. IE, the results I got at 55 degree temperature would be roughly 20 fps higher at 75 degrees and roughly 20 fps lower at 35 degrees. Therefore I think that ~ 50 degrees is a good baseline for testing, as many people will experience actual environment extremes of up to +/- 50 degrees from the 50 degree mark. Heck, in my part of the country, we experience that type of temperature extreme every year from winter to summer! Even though this first part of testing was broken up into 2 days, the temperature on both days was nearly identical (around 55 degrees) so temperature differences should not be a factor in the testing. Information on the barrels tested: 18” CHF Barrel: This is an FN M249 barrel blank 1-7 twist barrel with the “machine gun steel” and “double thick chrome lining”. Bought from Riflegear.com, had the gas port opened up to ~.102 and has roughly 2,500 – 3,000 rounds through it, which is nothing for a M249 barrel. According to an FN engineer when I called them, it is more so the unique proprietary composition of the M249 barrel steel itself that contributes to the super long life rather than the CHF process. The “double thick” chrome lining, is also a different type of chrome plating that plates thicker than the mil spec on the M4. It is not just the M4 chrome lining applied twice as thick. 18.5” CHF Barrel: Barrel was a FN M249 1-7 twist barrel blank same as the above 18” but was originally a 20” FN CHF purchased from PSA and cut down to 18.5”. Why 18.5”? For two reasons. One, it still allows use of a bayonet (where as the 18” requires an extended flash hider for the same) and two it allows for more dwell time / gas port pressure without having to open up the gas port. Since my 18” is modified to allow attachment of a bayonet with the extended flash hider, it is actually the same length as the 18.5” barrel w/ standard A2, so might as well have more barrel length than flash hider length. This barrel also has around 2,000 – 3,000 rounds through it, which again is nothing for this barrel. 20” Colt AR15A4 Barrel: This is the control barrel, and also represents velocities from an authentic 20” AR15. This barrel is off of an as new Colt AR15A4 that is only a couple years old, and which has less than a couple hundred rounds through it. This barrel is as new and completely mil spec with a 1-7 twist! 
My Goals: I wanted to discover a few different things with this test. I love full length barrels, not the least of which was due to their performance, and I have always been intrigued by the idea that you can obtain the same, or nearly the same, velocities from an 18” barrel. If I can have 20” performance in a lighter and better handling package, why wouldn't I? The actual length, and thus handling difference, between 18” and 20” barrels is actually significant and noticeable. Even more so than the difference between 14.5” and 16” ARs (16" barrel testing results will be posted later). I had done some testing a few years prior which seemed to indicate I was getting 20” velocity from my 18” barrel, but I wanted to do some more in depth comparisons. I also wanted to see what, if any, noticeable difference having an extra 1/2” of barrel would have for the 18.5” barrel. Lastly, I wanted to test different types of M193 and similar 5.56 type loads. I have suspected that recent XM193 offerings from Federal have been down loaded from what they used to be loaded to in the past, and I wanted to confirm. If in fact they have been down loaded, I wanted to see by how much, and what competitor M193 loads might be better / more in spec alternatives if Federal has downgraded their loads. Some of the loads (like the Hornady Frontier) I didn't test with all three barrel lengths, because it was clear that they were under M193 spec and I wasn't interested in evaluating them further. Guide: H = Highest velocity of a string. L = Lowest velocity of a string. Avg = The mean of all shots fired in a string. ES = Extreme spread in a string. SD = Standard Deviation of a string (calculated by the chrony Testing: Part 1: Conducted October 12th 2018 ~ 1pm. Temperature ~55 degrees Distance from Chrony 12 ft / 4 yrds Testing Part 2: Conducted October 19th 2018 ~ 12pm. Temperature ~55 degrees Distance from Chrony 9 ft / 3 yrds Control Test July 2015 : 10 Round test conducted in July 2015 ~ 78 F Distance from Chrony ~ 9 ft / 3 yrds Federal XM193 2012 Lot # ??? (Packaged in 20 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 3,287 2. 3,242 3. 3,247 4. 3,228 5. 3,305 6. 3,257 7. 3,244 8. 3,246 9. 3,215 L 10. 3,307 H AVG: 3,258 fps ES: 92 SD: Note: During this same control test, this same Federal XM193 ammo chronied with an average of roughly 3,130 FPS from a 16” mid length Armalite Upper. New Testing: Part 1 Conducted October 12th 2018 ~ 1pm. Temperature ~55 degrees Distance from Chrony 12 ft / 4 yrds Federal XM193 2017 Lot # SMQ17C815-337 (Packaged in 20 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 3,163 H 2. 3,087 3. 3,138 4. 3,133 5. 3,084 L 6. 3,161 7. 3,092 8. 3,140 9. 3,139 10. 3,141 AVG: 3,128 fps ES: 78 SD: 29 18.5” CHF 1. 3,141 2. 3,198 H 3. 3,158 4. 3,145 5. 3,125 6. 3,128 7. 3,114 L 8. 3,153 9. 3,127 10. 3,153 AVG: 3,144 fps ES: 84 SD: 24 (difference from 18” 16 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,247 H 2. 3,177 3. 3,228 4. 3,186 5. 3,160 L 6. 3,186 7. 3,168 8. 3,186 9. 3,199 10. 3,177 AVG: 3,191 fps ES: 86.5 SD: 27 (difference from 18.5” 47 fps) Federal XM193 2018 Lot # SMQ18C815-409 (Packaged in 20 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 3,158 2. 3,140 3. 3,089 4. 3,056 L 5. 3,084 6. 3,183 H 7. 3,153 8. 3,128 9. 3,123 10. 3,158 AVG: 3,127 fps ES: 126 SD: 40 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,208 H 2. 3,194 3. 3,198 4. 3,167 5. 3,150 L 6. 3,168 7. 3,189 8. 3,165 (Ran out of ammo for more than 8 shots) AVG: 3,180 fps ES: 84 SD: 24 (difference from 18” 53 fps) Federal XM193 2017 Lot # SMQ17C815-334 (Packaged on Stripper Clips) 18” CHF 1. 3,205 H 2. 3,112 3. 3,145 4. 3,098 5. 3,177 6. 3,175 7. 3,177 8. 3,173 9. 3,066 L 10. 3,118 AVG: 3,145 fps ES: 140 SD: 44 18” CHF Bonus Round (shot another string at the end of all testing) 1. 3,175 2. 3,176 3. 3,103 L 4. 3,235 5. 3,308 6. 3,246 7. 3,193 8. 3,320 H 9. 3,231 10. 3,221 AVG: 3,221 fps ES: 216 SD: 64 Total Average: 3,179 fps - for both 10 round strings (20 Rounds) 18.5” CHF 1. 3,152 L 2. 3,198 3. 3,246 4. 3,242 5. 3,223 6. 3,258 H 7. 3,227 8. 3,164 9. 3,218 10. 3,176 AVG: 3,210 fps ES: 106 SD: 36 (difference from 18” total Avg 31 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,203 2. 3,166 L 3. 3,190 4. 3,219 5. 3,223 6. 3,210 7. 3,240 H 8. 3,210 9. 3,221 10. 3,214 AVG: 3,210 fps ES: 75 SD: 20 (difference from 18.5” 0 fps) Federal XM193 2016 Lot # SMQ16J815-290 (Packaged loose in 150 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 3,195 2. 3,206 3. 3,235 4. 3,190 L 5. 3,205 6. 3,226 7. 3,244 8. 3,246 9. 3,266 H 10. 3,221 AVG: 3,223 fps ES: 76 SD: 18.5” CHF 1. 3,193 2. 3,211 3. 3,182 4. 3,171 L 5. 3,234 6. 3,274 H 7. 3,248 8. 3,210 9. 3,232 10. 3,209 AVG: 3,216 fps ES: 103 SD: 31 (difference from 18” -7 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,241 2. 3,245 3. 3,241 4. 3,270 H 5. 3,236 6. 3,247 7. 3,249 8. 3,260 9. 3,212 L 10. 3,253 AVG: 3,245 fps ES: 58 SD: 15 (difference from 18” 22 fps) MAGTECH M193 2018 Lot # CBC0114/18 18” CHF 1. 3,017 L 2. 3,185 3. 3,163 4. 3,181 5. 3,199 6. 3,127 7. 3,240 H 8. 3,178 9. 3,154 10. 3,139 AVG: 3,158 fps ES: 223 SD: 59 18.5” CHF 1. 3,174 2. 3,153 3. 3,072 L 4. 3,185 5. 3,231 H 6. 3,145 7. 3,193 8. 3,186 9. 3,168 10. 3,216 AVG: 3,172 fps ES: 159 SD: 44 (difference from 18” 14 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,210 H 2. 3,172 3. 3,185 4. 3,188 5. 3,165 6. 3,165 7. 3,183 8. 3,144 L 9. 3,172 AVG: 3,176 fps ES: 66 SD: 18.5 (difference from 18.5” 4 fps) MAGTECH 62 gr 5.56 FMJ (not M855) 2018 Lot # CBC0061/18 18” CHF 1. 3,056 2. 3,049 3. 3,148 H 4. 3,049 5. 3,046 6. 3,009 7. 2,924 L 8. 3,030 9. 3,030 10. 3,039 AVG: 3,038 fps ES: 224 SD: 54.5 18.5” CHF 1. 3,066 2. 3,073 3. 3,082 4. 3,048 5. 3,057 6. 3,084 H 7. 3,039 8. 3,030 L 9. 3,076 10. 3,043 AVG: 3,060 fps ES: 54 SD: 19 (difference from 18” 22 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,032 2. 3,065 3. 3,063 4. 3,130 H 5. 3,063 6. 3,069 7. 3,038 8. 3,037 9. 3,091 10. 3,023 L AVG: 3,061 fps ES: 107 SD: 32 (difference from 18.5” 1 fps) Hornady Frontier XM193 2018 Lot # SMQ18D867-00 (Packaged in 20 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 3,102 2. 3,185 H 3. 3,143 4. 3,172 5. 3,180 6. 3,148 7. 3,144 8. 3,124 9. 3,060 10. 3,159 AVG: 3,142 fps ES: 125 SD: 38 Hornady Frontier 62 grain 5.56 FMJ (not M855) 2018 Lot # SMQ18A843-001 (Packaged in 20 round boxes) (~ 1 MOA: Very Accurate) 18” CHF 1. 3,008 H 2. 2,956 3. 2,917 4. 2,918 5. 2,946 6. 2,959 7. 2,948 8. 2,956 9. 2,952 10. 2,880 L AVG: 2,944 fps ES: 128 SD: 33.5 PMC X-TAC M193 2014 Lot # ? (Packaged in 20 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 3,136 2. 3,082 3. 3,012 L 4. 3,140 5. 3,135 6. 3,042 7. 3,145 H 8. 3,080 9. 3,136 10. 3,095 AVG: 3,100 fps ES: 133 SD: 46 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,200 H 2. 3,181 3. 3,083 4. 3,073 5. 3,177 6. 2,991 L 7. 3,138 8. 3,136 9. 3,190 (Ran out of Ammo for 10 shots) AVG: 3,130 fps ES: 209 SD: (difference from 18” 30 fps) M193 Test Finalists!!! Testing Conducted October 19th 2018 ~ 12pm. Temperature ~55 degrees Distance from Chrony 9 ft / 3 yrds (these were the BEST of all the M193 types tested) Independance XM193 2017 Lot # FC17C001-183 (Packaged in 20 round boxes, 25 boxes per .50 cal metal ammo can) 18” CHF 1. 3,174 2. 3,221 3. 3,211 4. 3,168 5. 3,136 L 6. 3,218 7. 3,261 H 8. 3,205 9. 3,237 10. 3,227 AVG: 3,206 fps ES: 125 SD: 37 18” CHF Bonus Round (shot another string at the end of all testing) 1. 3,248 2. 3,242 3. 3,232 4. 3,284 H 5. 3,242 6. 3,254 7. 3,244 8. 3,282 9. 3,208 L 10. 3,254 AVG: 3,249 fps ES: 77 SD: 22 Total Average: 3,228 fps - for both 10 round strings (20 Rounds) 18.5” CHF 1. 3,206 2. 3,161 L 3. 3,274 4. 3,300 5. 3,309 6. 3,292 7. 3,286 8. 3,268 9. 3,252 10. 3,313 H AVG: 3,266 fps ES: 152 SD: 48.5 (difference from 18” total 38 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,306 2. 3,262 L 3. 3,271 4. 3,265 5. 3,296 6. 3,316 7. 3,324 8. 3,279 9. 3,323 10. 3,325 H AVG: 3,297 fps ES: 63 SD: 26 (difference from 18.5” 31 fps) South African M193 PMP NF Year: ?? 20xx Lot # 195 (Packaged in 50 round boxes, in 200 round plastic “battle packs”, 5 packs per .50 cal metal ammo can) 18” CHF 1. 3,188 L 2. 3,251 3. 3,238 4. 3,309 H 5. 3,196 6. 3,303 7. 3,278 8. 3,247 9. 3,269 10. 3,258 AVG: 3,254 fps ES: 120 SD: 40 18” CHF Bonus Round (shot another string at the end of all testing) 1. 3,236 2. 3,255 3. 3,236 4. 3,275 5. 3,250 6. 3,218 7. 3,264 8. 3,284 H 9. 3,217 10. 3,208 L AVG: 3,244 fps ES: 76 SD: 26 Total Average: 3,250 fps - for both 10 round strings (20 Rounds) 18.5” CHF 1. 3,244 2. 3,262 3. 3,225 L 4. 3,283 5. 3,253 6. 3,250 7. 3,268 8. 3,276 9. 3,286 10. 3,310 H AVG: 3,266 fps ES: 86 SD: 24 (difference from 18” 16 fps) 20” Colt AR15A4 1. 3,282 2. 3,255 3. 3,272 4. 3,280 5. 3,249 L 6. 3,254 7. 3,304 H 8. 3,259 9. 3,301 10. 3,292 AVG: 3,275 fps ES: 55 SD: 20 (difference from 18.5” 9 fps) The Winner: South African PMP NF M193!!!! My testing showed that South African M193 was more consistent not only throughout each string of fire, but throughout all three barrel lengths as well. Independence had some higher velocity figures from the longer barrels, but it was more inconsistent (especially in the shorter 18" barrel), and had a lot more lower velocity figures recorded as well (in the shorter length barrels). Accuracy was good for me with both rounds, with Independence grouping a little lower POI wise. South African M193 has both case and primer sealant, Independence XM193 is only sealed on the primers, the bullet I pulled had no sealant. South African M193 was also crimped a lot deeper / more securely and the bullet was a lot harder to pull than the Independence. In my function testing, I have a rifle / mag combo that sometimes doesn't fully chamber a round, and slams the cartridge into the barrel extension vs. chambering the round. With most bullets (Federal, Magtech, etc.) this results in deep bullet setback, and the bullet becomes pushed in and partially lodged inside the case. This did NOT happen with the South African M193, the bullet is crimped in there good! Conclusions: 1.) It appears that in most cases, there is no significant velocity gain from 18” to 20”. The rounds with the greatest disparity typically have no more than 60 fps or so increase over the 18” barrels. In most cases, it isn't nearly that much. The rounds where the most consistent difference was noted was the Independence XM193 which had a increase of 70 fps over the 18” barrel. The 20” barrel seems to have two distinct advantages, it is a lot more consistent with all rounds fired than the 18” barrel. IE, the 18” barrel will have lower lows and more extreme lows that deviate greatly from the average which contribute to a larger extreme spread. The 20” will very rarely have those same extreme low velocity readings which I'm guessing is because sometimes a powder charge will take a little longer to fully burn than is typical, and that is when those extra 2” of barrel will help to fully burn the powder. However, it seems as if the extra half inch of barrel from the 18.5” barrel is enough to practically negate those advantages from the 20”. The 18.5” barrel not only nearly matches the 20” barrel velocity in almost every case, but it also seems to get rid of most of the outliner “low lows” that the 18” barrel would sometimes experience. 2.) It appears that my fears have been confirmed. Federal has indeed greatly downloaded the velocity in their new production XM193 loads (~2017 and on), and they are no longer M193 spec in terms of velocity. It appears that the change happened sometime in 2017. The 2016 loading I have is full power M193 (it also has the primer staking on the round to help prevent popped primers). I'm guessing that any Fed XM193 with that staking is loaded to full power. The 2017 lot of Federal XM193 that was packed on stripper clips in 90 round boxes also seems to be loaded to full power, though the 2017 XN193 loaded in 20 round boxes is under powered. All 2018 XM193 loads tested were under powdered (wait till you see the 16" barrel figures)! Therefore, I can only conclude that the change occured sometime around 2017. I tested the stripper clip packed 2017 XM193 loading twice from the 18" barrel because it tested so high in the other two barrel lengths my first string. I suspected I just had a couple extra low low outliners that threw off the results from my first 18" string. Further testing proved me correct, and the 2017 stripper clip lot is loaded almost identically to the 2016 bulk packed load (I have also tested it several times since, results to come). Disappointingly, PMC X-TAC, Hornady Frontier and Magtech also seem to have the same downgraded velocity issues, about 100 fps slower from true M193 spec velocity. I had heard that current production IMI M193 has also been downgraded in velocity at the importer's request due to some complaints of popped primers. It is now supposedly also testing out to be around 100 fps slower than true M193 spec. Fortunately, Independence XM193 and South African M193 are still M193 in spec, at least velocity wise. South African M193 is true M193 spec in all aspects, including velocity. The bad news though is that South African M193 is no longer available, and appears to only be rarely and sporadically be imported. There are a few venders that still have some in stock, however, once they sell out, it'll once again no longer be available. At least Independence XM193 will continue to be available. BONUS: Some fun bonus results. Federal Fusion testing. I only tested in one barrel length (the 18”) since I just wanted a baseline in my primary use barrel. Fusion velocities are more of a curiosity and not as important since the bullet design is not velocity dependent (will expand down to 1,100 fps according to a federal rep). Federal Fusion 62 grain “ICE Round” 2010 Lot # 49P659X005 (Packaged in white 20 round boxes, sold from PSA some years back) 18” CHF 1. 2,698 L 2. 2,729 3. 2,764 4. 2,801 H 5. 2,755 AVG: 2,750 fps ES: 103 Federal Fusion MSR 62 grain 2013 Lot # VA7J604 (Packaged in 20 round boxes) 18” CHF 1. 2,837 2. 2,891 H 3. 2,889 4. 2,830 L 5. 2,862 AVG: 2,862 fps ES: 61 (difference from ICE Round: 112 fps) .......STAY TUNED FOR PART II!!!!!! Check out Part II Here!!! Check out Part III (16" Barrel Results) HERE!!! |
Put down the Optic! Learn how to shoot the REAL way!
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Originally Posted By green_bullet:
So if 3200fps is needed to punch through level 3 armor most rifle/ammo combos wont reach the necessary velocity. But you are most likely to get there with 18” or longer usung non-Federal ammo? |
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Define "full power M193". Is that a new spec? |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
Great information. This is always important data especially when validating any body armor claims. It's simply not enough to grab a box of "M193" and think you're good to go without having velocity #s.. I compared my data to yours and have found it to be quite similar (Magtec, Frontier, PMC XTAC, South African, etc). I agree that the velocity for M193 is very important, not just for body armor, but for terminal effectiveness as well. Which is why it is so disappointing to see recent production lots of Federal XM193 be down loaded (IMI as well). If you don't think the velocities look too bad compared to true M193 loads now, wait until you see them from a 16" barrel! |
Put down the Optic! Learn how to shoot the REAL way!
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For those who don't know what the M193 velocity spec is:
The average velocity of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 72 degrees, plus or minus 2 degrees Fahrenheit (F), shall be 3165 feet per second (ft/sec), plus or minus 40 ft/sec, at 78 feet from the muzzle of the weapon. The standard deviation of the velocities shall not exceed 40 ft/sec. |
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
For those who don't know what the M193 velocity spec is: The average velocity of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 72 degrees, plus or minus 2 degrees Fahrenheit (F), shall be 3165 feet per second (ft/sec), plus or minus 40 ft/sec, at 78 feet from the muzzle of the weapon. The standard deviation of the velocities shall not exceed 40 ft/sec. |
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Originally Posted By tstorms:
Great work Blain. Any plans to try the PPU? Originally Posted By tstorms:
Great work Blain. Any plans to try the PPU? Originally Posted By mcantu:
I wonder what role temperature played. You were shooting in temps almost 20 degrees colder than what's called for in the spec 
Just to reiterate though, the old rule of thumb is 1 FPS for every degree in temperate change. I'm not sure how accurate that is. However, if it makes you feel better, add 10 - 15 fps (depending on which day of testing) for the distance from the chrony, and another ~ 15 FPS for 70 degree temp. Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
Originally Posted By mcantu:
For those who don't know what the M193 velocity spec is: The average velocity of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 72 degrees, plus or minus 2 degrees Fahrenheit (F), shall be 3165 feet per second (ft/sec), plus or minus 40 ft/sec, at 78 feet from the muzzle of the weapon. The standard deviation of the velocities shall not exceed 40 ft/sec. |
Put down the Optic! Learn how to shoot the REAL way!
***************************************
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Originally Posted By Blain: Which is why it is so disappointing to see recent production lots of Federal XM193 be down loaded (IMI as well). If you don't think the velocities look too bad compared to true M193 loads now, wait until you see them from a 16" barrel! and what year did IMI start backing off? |
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Originally Posted By mr_h: what velocity have you seen from recent lots of IMI m193? and what year did IMI start backing off? Originally Posted By mr_h: what velocity have you seen from recent lots of IMI m193? and what year did IMI start backing off? Here are some excepts from some emails from Sam @ SGammo where he discusses why this was done. The current production IMI M193 ammo is loaded right to the middle of the acceptable spec range. They used to load it to the top of the range but that causes a lot of pressure problem in non NATO standard weapon systems, adjustable gas systems, 223 Wylde chambers, 18" barrels, its just not practical to do that in the USA commercial market because of the diversity of firearms, and none of the other ammo major brands load to the top end of spec either... ....No one makes to max pressure m193 these days, IMI used to but it was a customer service nightmare when the people with odd setups would have problems and then tried to blame that ammo as being 'bad lots' that are over pressure, and then degraded the image of the brand. It actually made IMI go from having a perception of being one of the most reputable brands to being a brand perceived as having problems. There are just too many people with their custom home built AR15s that have attributes that cause unnaturally high pressure, and if you mate that with max pressure ammo you get problems. As far as 18" barrels I do not know what exactly causes them to push pressure up but I know from experiences its almost always 18" barrels that have pressure problems with the hotter ammo, especially if paired with a 223 Wylde chamber Thank you Sam SGAmmo Pretty much any 5.56 ammo you buy is not going to be loaded to the top of the range because all the major manufacturers have found out that causes to many pressure problems in the US commercial market due to non standard rifle set ups. 18" barrels cause pressure to rise beyond what would normally be produced in 16 and 20", so do 223 wylde chambers and adjustable gas systems. If you use max pressure ammo in guns with those attributes it is very likely that the primers will blow out when the round is fired and the expelled primers then jam the gun and can lock up the action too requiring gunsmith work to fix....
Sam SGAmmo |
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Interesting results. Thank You for sharing.
Looking forward to your 16" results. I thought Independence 5.56 was made for Fed. , by IMI. Could you see if your '17 lot is marked "Made in Israel" on the box ? And the first 2013ish lots were even faster... by quite a bit compared to various other 5.56 "M193" products in the same time range.. Even blowing primers ( 2013 ) in those various chambers Sam mentioned. The 2013 lot of Independence from my 20" FN CHF 410SS 5.56 chambered chrono'd 3343fps ( 20rds averaged, 2x10rd groups, dismal accuracy ) ... and the primers were smashed flat. And I considered my 20" barrel to be a "slow" one. The only 55gr FMJ round that was close... was the "infamous" 223 FC "Large Letter" ( If anyone still remembers those ) ... the ones with the loose primer pockets after one firing, and stretched cases. ( 3299fps. ) If you are interested in more chrono data results.. Granted from my barrels, but....all from the same 20" barrel and 16" barrel in the same temp. etc ...even just to see the trends from the Fed. XM193 I had on hand ( 7ea 55gr "XM193" FMJ, various headstamped some same year, loose and stripper clipped, much like yours.. ) My results were kinda like your tests... just wanting to see the results and differences over the years. IM me if you are interested... so far 125ish rounds. ( and still waiting for the pile of more ammo to test through those same barrels.. Lol... to many irons in the fire...) |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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My 2017 Independence lot IS made in Isreal. I'm not sure about the manufacturing details, but if it's not loaded by different people, it's definitely loaded to different specs than IMI M193. It was also very accurate for me out of my rifles. Wait until you see my next test results with Independence, it proves that not all barrels are create equal!
Sure, I'd love to see your velocity results. Feel free to shoot me an email (prefer email over PM). |
Put down the Optic! Learn how to shoot the REAL way!
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1:
is that from a 14.5" barrel or 16"? |
Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. That Every Man Be Armed - see the giveaway/donor threads in GD - post up what you don't need, ask for what you do need.
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Thank you OP for the data. Always appreciated. About a year or two ago, I started seeing the listed velocity of Fed XM193 boxes as 3125fps instead of 3240 as previous years. |
Put down the Optic! Learn how to shoot the REAL way!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ligUEAJH25E
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Originally Posted By Blain: I didn't buy any IMI to test because others who have tested it have confirmed that it was down loaded within the past 2 years by around 100 FPS or so. Sam from SGammo was responsible for helping them "work down" a more mild load as he reported that customers with tight chambers, etc had experienced issues with the IMI M193 that was loaded at the upper end of the spectrum. Here are some excepts from some emails from Sam @ SGammo where he discusses why this was done. Originally Posted By mr_h:
ya i recall all that... from looking at buffmans videos, it appears IMI started falling off in 2015. he has an early 2015 lots at 3202 fps ave. then a later lot at 3152fps ave (20"). Originally Posted By Blain: Yeah, I think that was their subtle way of showing us that the velocity has been downloaded.  
The thought of unloading a couple thousand and reloading with other ammo I have onhand makes my fingers hurt just thinking about. What about 2011 CBC M193 ammo or current production Wolf Gold 55gr? I have those stacked pretty deep. Would those be better to keep loaded up rather than the IMI or Fed I have loaded up now? Seeing as how my rifles that would eat this ammo are 11.5” or 14.5” (I probably wouldn’t use my 18”-20” rifles in a bugout situation) does it even matter if my “M193” is not “in spec”... or am I wasting my time swapping my SHTF ammo out? |
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The Federal might be fine. My 2017 production XM193 packed on stripper clips is loaded to M193 spec velocity wise. What year production are your lots?
The green and tan box IMI is another story. I personally am not a fan of wolf gold as it is not M193 spec velocity wise, plus it also has a thicker jacket than typical fmj bullets. The older magtec might be in spec velocity wise. Buffman got good results from his lots, though my 2018 production lots I tested were downloaded velocity wise. Honestly, the best way to know for sure is to chrony them from the barrel you would be using. Honestly though, regular ball ao isn't the best choice for SBRs. 14.5" would be ok for M193, but not ideal. You're probably looking at around 3,050 fps from a 14.5" barrel with the hottest M193 types. |
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I know 55gr ball isn’t ideal from an SBR so I keep my HD and primary mags loaded with 60gr poly tip. But I’m not paying to fill several shtf ammo cans worth of loaded mags with anything pricey... so M193 should do fine in a pinch for stacking deep. I would think, even from an 11.5” that M193 is still within frag range for at least a couple dozen yards.
I’ll have to check my Fed XM193 and CBC lot/date codes. |
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Originally Posted By Pneumagger:
I know 55gr ball isn’t ideal from an SBR so I keep my HD and primary mags loaded with 60gr poly tip. But I’m not paying to fill several shtf ammo cans worth of loaded mags with anything pricey... so M193 should do fine in a pinch for stacking deep. I would think, even from an 11.5” that M193 is still within frag range for at least a couple dozen yards. I’ll have to check my Fed XM193 and CBC lot/date codes. |
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Originally Posted By Blain:
I personally am not a fan of wolf gold as it is not M193 spec velocity wise, plus it also has a thicker jacket than typical fmj bullets. The pics are gone but the data is still there https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Range-Report-Wolf-Gold-55-grain-FMJ/16-687936/#i7099231 |
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Originally Posted By Blain:
The Federal might be fine. My 2017 production XM193 packed on stripper clips is loaded to M193 spec velocity wise. What year production are your lots? The green and tan box IMI is another story. I personally am not a fan of wolf gold as it is not M193 spec velocity wise, plus it also has a thicker jacket than typical fmj bullets. The older magtec might be in spec velocity wise. Buffman got good results from his lots, though my 2018 production lots I tested were downloaded velocity wise. Honestly, the best way to know for sure is to chrony them from the barrel you would be using. Honestly though, regular ball ao isn't the best choice for SBRs. 14.5" would be ok for M193, but not ideal. You're probably looking at around 3,050 fps from a 14.5" barrel with the hottest M193 types. |
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Originally Posted By GAU-8: Blain, excellent work! Thank you. What I am wondering is how the XM193 that is packed on strippers in 420 rnd. cans would test? I'm supecting the stuff in the cans is full spec. I don't have a can at the moment but want to buy a few of these cans as long as they are full M193 velocity. |
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| You can get some HERE! |
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btw, Magtech lists the muzzle velocity of their M193 as 3265 fps from a 20" barrel https://magtechammunition.com/products/5-56x45mm-ball-m193/ Their 62gr seems to meet the advertised velocity of 3085 fps https://magtechammunition.com/products/5-56x45mm-62gr-fmj/ |
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
btw, Magtech lists the muzzle velocity of their M193 as 3265 fps from a 20" barrel https://magtechammunition.com/products/5-56x45mm-ball-m193/ Their 62 grain 5.56 FMJ load was up to their listed spec though. https://magtechammunition.com/products/5-56x45mm-62gr-fmj/ Just wonder how that performs in gel. I sent @Bluefalcon some to test with a SBR, so whenever he gets around to it. |
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Originally Posted By Pneumagger: Well shit... I’ve been keeping my dozens and dozens of SHTF bugout magazines preloaded with only IMI M193 (green/tan box) and Federal XM193 (30rnd boxes on stripper clips). does it even matter if my “M193” is not “in spec”... or am I wasting my time swapping my SHTF ammo out? i have 6000 rounds of the "downloaded m193 IMI" and it doesnt phase me at all. its good ammo, burns clean and is more accurate that most. |
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Originally Posted By mr_h:
naw, IMO it doesn't matter. any scenario where you are on your own in a WROL, any bullet is fatal enough and i doubt may will be shooting past rock throwing distance. i have 6000 rounds of the "downloaded m193 IMI" and it doesnt phase me at all. its good ammo, burns clean and is more accurate that most. Originally Posted By mr_h:
Originally Posted By Pneumagger: Well shit... I’ve been keeping my dozens and dozens of SHTF bugout magazines preloaded with only IMI M193 (green/tan box) and Federal XM193 (30rnd boxes on stripper clips). does it even matter if my “M193” is not “in spec”... or am I wasting my time swapping my SHTF ammo out? i have 6000 rounds of the "downloaded m193 IMI" and it doesnt phase me at all. its good ammo, burns clean and is more accurate that most. By that line of thinking, one might as well stock up on PMC bronze or some other anemic .223 load. As for myself I would pay a little extra, or go through a little extra effort, to find in spec velocity M193. 5.56 M193 is a velocity dependent round and you literally loose nothing by getting hotter ammo, plus it should cycle more reliably under adverse conditions than more anemic stuff. The faster the round, the more dramatically it will fragment, the further the max range it can fragment, and the more steel it can punch through at further distances (and barrier penetration in general). If I have to pay a few cents extra per round to get better performance, I have no problem doing that. I also view this as a way some companies are cutting back a little. Kind of like how you get less cereal / crackers, etc in a box than you did a few years ago, but the price stayed the same! I don't want to support companies / products that cut back on their velocity and don't tell the customer. If they had two different product lines and one was an in spec velocity M193 load, and another cheaper offering was in between .223 and M193, that would be one thing. I don't like the hidden nerf. |
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Looks like Classic Firearms has the PMP ammo, in 200 round 'battle packs' and the 1K case.
PMP at Classic Firearms |
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Originally Posted By sellersm:
Looks like Classic Firearms has the PMP ammo, in 200 round 'battle packs' and the 1K case. PMP at Classic Firearms
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Originally Posted By Brok3n:
Wow, thanks for the detailed info! PMP is good stuff, I was surprised at how accurately it shot out of my rifles and I liked at how well it was packaged too. I also liked MEN, PPU, and some of the IMI offerings.. will you be testing those too? |
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Originally Posted By ar15joe:
Interesting - My 12.5" Triarc T2 barrel does 2800 to 2900 fps with 55gr. cheap 55gr Steel case is around 2700 to 2800 |
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Originally Posted By Blain: That's impressive if true. What M193 load is that from? Temperature / elevation? I have seen data posted from another member on here where his 12.5" barrel velocities were almost equal to those from his 14.5" barrel for many rounds. Velocity tests on a mid length TRIARC 12.5" AR-15 TRACK Barrel 2.0 with NP3 Barrel extension Chambered in 5.56mm Slr7 adjustable gas block Brownells lw nitride bcg Wolf gold 55gr From 2820-2850 Sellier n Bellot 55gr light green box. 2980 to 2890 IMI 55gr 2823-2750 Tula steel case 55gr. 2780-2816 In comparison on the same chronograph An hk 33 with 16” barrel ran about 50fps faster Maximum velocity was 3,000 with the green box S&B 55gr |
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Originally Posted By Blain: No, because PPU and MEN are under powered. Buffman already has tests with those if you're interested though. |
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Originally Posted By mcantu: I'm not sure where you got that MEN was underpowered. In Buffman's video he got an avg of 3167fps @ 45 degrees with a 20" barrel. Adjusting for temperature, that puts it at 3194fps |
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Originally Posted By Blain: That's underpowered for M193 as far as I'm concerned. Looks like it's on par with recent production Federal XM193. I want a minimum of ~3,250 FPS from a 20" barrel for M193 type ammunition. |
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Originally Posted By Pneumagger:
So in both your direct findings and research, what is your own cumulative list of M193-type ammunition that is up to spec, velocity wise? Older production Federal XM193 (2016 and earlier), older production IMI (2015 and older), Independence XM193, South African M193, Malaysian M193, Winchester M193 (not sure about newer production, I just bought some to test), older production Magtech M193. |
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What for?
That spec calculates out to ~3,270 FPS at the muzzle, + / - 40 FPS to be in spec. If a round is getting that velocity when tested at 70 degrees or less temperature, it is obviously in spec velocity wise. That's why I like more temperate weather testing. You know it will at LEAST get that velocity at room temperature or higher. Keep in mind that the chrony results in my testing need to have another 10 FPS added to them to get their true muzzle velocity. |
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5.56 & M193 Velocity Shoot Off!!! (+ Bonus): Part I (Page 1 of 2)
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