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Posted: 7/28/2017 9:45:03 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a Leupold 3-9 on one rifle and a PA 1-6x on another. and while the leupold is great I find the 3-9 limiting for other than a bench gun. Probably going to sell it and get an PA 1-8x
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Posted: 7/28/2017 10:57:25 PM EDT
[#2]
All around? An AP M4 with an Eotech G33 magnifier.
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Posted: 7/28/2017 11:32:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Leupold Mk6 1-6x24.
-Locking turrets that can still be dialed for +-800yd shots -Arguably the best BDC of any LPV out there -Tough as nails -Great glass -American made As both a shooting industry retailer and a avid shooter myself this is what I've landed on as the perfect AR15 optic. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 12:02:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Swarovski z6i is the best all around optic, IMO. 1x is fantastic, gets nuclear bright, 6x is excellent, the glass is unreal, and it's pretty damn light for a 1-6. I wouldn't even consider spending elcan money when there's much better LPVO's out there. I've now had my Swarovski for a little over a year, that's a record for me  as I swap optics like I swap underwear.
That optic will always have a place in my gunroom |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 11:08:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Funny how General purpose turned into a niche....
here is the definition.... "having a range of potential uses; not specialized in function or design" |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 1:31:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny how General purpose turned into a niche.... here is the definition.... "having a range of potential uses; not specialized in function or design" |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 1:47:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't disagree. I was going to say 0-however far a 5.56 might be good for..... But I didn't want to define it, to sway answers. Or someone might argue with me why you would want to shoot it past 200 yards because you don't NEED to, in some people's minds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Funny how General purpose turned into a niche.... here is the definition.... "having a range of potential uses; not specialized in function or design" I could spent the rest of my life working on mastering the 0-200 range world and would not have wasted my time. lots of space in that world to work on and practice. And the funny thing is, that's where I spend more of my time practicing... and running from 100 to 50 yds and trying to master my shooting under some physical exertion. Everyone wants to be a door kicking Delta Assaulter...right up to the point they have to run 100 yds to get to the target.... then its miss...miss..miss..I'm done. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 5:10:36 PM EDT
[#8]
General purpose for an AR to me is like other have said 0-250 meters.
I would go with an Aimpoint or MRO. All purpose would be 1-4, 1-6, or 1-8. Combat: Acog w/RMR or Elcan. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 5:54:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leupold Mk6 1-6x24. -Locking turrets that can still be dialed for +-800yd shots -Arguably the best BDC of any LPV out there -Tough as nails -Great glass -American made As both a shooting industry retailer and a avid shooter myself this is what I've landed on as the perfect AR15 optic. I've owned Aimpoints, EOs, an ACOG, Vortex Razor 1-6x, Burris XTR 2 1-5x, Bushnell 1-6.5x, 1-4x Tac30, 1-4x MTAC, etc over the years and my favorite scope for the AR is the Mk6. It offers the most versatility. If you think you'll only shoot your AR15 500 yards or less however, the other LPVs are rather similar. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 8:14:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree, this is the best optic for a general purpose AR-15. What separates it from other LPVs is the outstanding reticle, which can be be used to get good hit ratios to the upper limits of .223. First round hits on dude-sized targets at 800 yards with a 16" barrel is not unreasonable in a lot of conditions. The center dot being 1/2 moa, with the ability to dial (even though the adjustments are rather coarse) really allow you to engage smaller targets quite well at any distance. Lastly, the great glass quality, with edge to edge clarity, really maximizes the usefulness of the scope. Even though it's 6x, because the glass is so good, you can engage targets at distance and pick up splash if conditions allow. I've owned Aimpoints, EOs, an ACOG, Vortex Razor 1-6x, Burris XTR 2 1-5x, Bushnell 1-6.5x, 1-4x Tac30, 1-4x MTAC, etc over the years and my favorite scope for the AR is the Mk6. It offers the most versatility. If you think you'll only shoot your AR15 500 yards or less however, the other LPVs are rather similar. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Leupold Mk6 1-6x24. -Locking turrets that can still be dialed for +-800yd shots -Arguably the best BDC of any LPV out there -Tough as nails -Great glass -American made As both a shooting industry retailer and a avid shooter myself this is what I've landed on as the perfect AR15 optic. I've owned Aimpoints, EOs, an ACOG, Vortex Razor 1-6x, Burris XTR 2 1-5x, Bushnell 1-6.5x, 1-4x Tac30, 1-4x MTAC, etc over the years and my favorite scope for the AR is the Mk6. It offers the most versatility. If you think you'll only shoot your AR15 500 yards or less however, the other LPVs are rather similar. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 8:25:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Awesome optic. Take care of it, they're not making any more. What's replacing it in their lineup? |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 8:47:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit? What's replacing it in their lineup? |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 10:03:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone taking shots at over 600y in any scenario, with a 5.56, is silly |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 11:40:05 PM EDT
[#14]
It's not a round meant for hitting out that far. It's possible but you need the right round. There is the reason why the army only goes out to 300m on their rile qual. 5.56/.223 doesn't have much energy left to do something with flesh.
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Posted: 7/29/2017 11:44:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leupold Mk6 1-6x24. -Locking turrets that can still be dialed for +-800yd shots -Arguably the best BDC of any LPV out there -Tough as nails -Great glass -American made As both a shooting industry retailer and a avid shooter myself this is what I've landed on as the perfect AR15 optic. Here's my question to you as a retailer. With some color commentary added. Leupold is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. With MS sales tax I paid 1800 out the door on my Mark 6 1x6. Do you want to sell high end optics at a 7% margin or a 23%? (Or something like this.) This is want I want. I'm spending cash on old eyes I want to go a Leopold dealer, buy my scope from an optometrist, go back to the Opto guy. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 12:42:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone taking shots at over 600y in any scenario, with a 5.56, is silly |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 3:33:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess their 1-8 I have good eyes, Swarovski glass leaves me pretty confident identifying details out to 5-600 yards, so for what I do, I don't foresee myself going to the 1-8 |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 3:41:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Lately I stick with the"A"s as in either Aimpoint or ACOG.
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Posted: 7/30/2017 5:22:16 AM EDT
[#19]
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Like the post below says, low energy at that distance and you're just giving up your position in any scenario with that shot. Not worth it. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 5:40:19 AM EDT
[#20]
With the excellent bullet drop hash marks and superb glass, I can nail 8 & 10 inch plates at 400+ yards with the ACOGs, and it doesn't suck closer up.
No knobs, no batteries, no excuses and tough as nails. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 10:39:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lately I stick with the"A"s as in either Aimpoint or ACOG. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 3:03:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like the post below says, low energy at that distance and you're just giving up your position in any scenario with that shot. Not worth it. But I'm not expert on combat. Just recalling what someone said. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 3:45:13 PM EDT
[#23]
I prefer prism optics. The vortex Spitfire is underrated.
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Posted: 7/30/2017 7:30:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not going to name drop but there was a certain member of our forum who was propped up on a mountain in Afghanistan that had Mk13, M14EBR, 240's, and M4's. Probably other stuff too I'm sure. But he was saying the M4's with ACOGs will reach out and touch someone at 600+. And do it's job. He wasn't saying it was just as good as the others. But he said it will work if need be. And apparently they were need being. And as far as I can recall it was just M855 he was talking about. I think if you can put a .22 caliber bullet into anyone shooting at you, you will try to do that. You don't need a heck of a lot of energy to actually insert it into something. But I'm not expert on combat. Just recalling what someone said. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 7:10:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Anyone thinking about or advocating the ta31 should take a close look at the Browe.
It is virtually the same optic with significantly better Schott glass and much better illumination of the reticle. I have both and the Browe makes the ta31 obsolete Having said that if I knew I had to fire a rifle in anger I'd take an aimpoint |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 7:27:56 AM EDT
[#26]
I have a bunch of optics to choose from. The one that sits on my 'Go-To' AR-15 is the SWFA SS HD 1-6x24
FFP, so you get a nice big illuminated CQB circle @ 1X 
And a mil reticle at 6X 
It is a heavy sucker. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 8:29:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone thinking about or advocating the ta31 should take a close look at the Browe. It is virtually the same optic with significantly better Schott glass and much better illumination of the reticle. I have both and the Browe makes the ta31 obsolete Having said that if I knew I had to fire a rifle in anger I'd take an aimpoint |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 10:06:38 AM EDT
[#28]
I have chosen low-powered variables for my own personal use.
They have a weight penalty. If I was going to hump it over miles and miles of terrain I would probably buy another TA33. Aimpoints are tough and lightweight, no doubt. Myself I find red dots to be significantly lacking on shots beyond 100 yards on small targets. Especially if the targets are obscured. I have rifle steel in a treeline and much of the day it is in the shade. They are painted white and they are completely invisible to a shooter using a red dot until late in the afternoon. Likewise if the target is smaller than the dot of the optic. For a door kicker an aimpoint is probably perfect. I have a red dot on my beater AR pistol. I can make hits on 225 yards steel but it is more difficult. Up close a good 1-5/6x is just as good as any red dot I have used, better in terms of field of view, worse in terms of weight. I'm not a door kicker and I don't have to carry it 20 miles so I use LPV optics. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 10:43:20 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have chosen low-powered variables for my own personal use. They have a weight penalty. If I was going to hump it over miles and miles of terrain I would probably buy another TA33. Aimpoints are tough and lightweight, no doubt. Myself I find red dots to be significantly lacking on shots beyond 100 yards on small targets. Especially if the targets are obscured. I have rifle steel in a treeline and much of the day it is in the shade. They are painted white and they are completely invisible to a shooter using a red dot until late in the afternoon. Likewise if the target is smaller than the dot of the optic. For a door kicker an aimpoint is probably perfect. I have a red dot on my beater AR pistol. I can make hits on 225 yards steel but it is more difficult. Up close a good 1-5/6x is just as good as any red dot I have used, better in terms of field of view, worse in terms of weight. I'm not a door kicker and I don't have to carry it 20 miles so I use LPV optics. At night I find myself grabbing the T2 rifle as I want a lighter weight option at the end of the day. Which means I either need to bring both rifles for my hunting trips or remove the lasers to alleviate some weight during the day which I don't like to do. The net is LPVs are great but confirming they kind of hinder long day carry. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 12:16:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd go with an Aimpoint. I'm good out to 200+ yards and it's fast up close. Anything further I'm getting out. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 1:39:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This for me as well Anyways.... I just never quite understand the predictions of knowing exactly what you would or would not be able to do. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 1:54:25 PM EDT
[#32]
In my experience, even using the Bindon Aiming Concept, unless you practice doing it all the time, it is hard to track a running animal with a magnified optic. The eye just takes too long to adjust and register between seeing it with the unaided eye and the eye looking through the scope, putting it together to make a good shot without a lot of concentration. And if you're winded or if there are other distractions going on it's extremely hard to do under stress without lots of practice. And as the target doesn't always give you the time to shoot it, time is of the essence.
It is difficult to shoot moving targets anyway even with iron sights, but the red dot makes it so much easier as it's just a floating red dot. You are not trying to align front sight in rear sight on a moving target, just pass the red dot over the moving target and with good trigger control and follow through, make the shot. You don't have the problem of trying to get the target into the scope view with the unaided eye, then try to zero in while the target is in the scope view and let the scoped eye take over. I do understand the BAC, but like I said, without lots of practice, for some people it's difficult to master. And in stressful situations, K.I.S.S. rules, this is why I prefer the non-magnified red-dot for most applications I'd use an AR for. I have no problem keeping 90-95% of my shots in the bullseye at 100 yards with red dots, and the bullseye is what, 1 1/2 inches or 2 across? So if someone can be that accurate with a red dot on a 1 1/2" - 2" target at 100 yards, they should have no problem hitting a deer-sized target that is 1 1/2" - 2" in size at distance, taking into account bullet drop, that would be a looong shot. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 5:35:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went and read up on the Browe, reviews are good and bad but, I really don't believe their Schott glass could be "significantly" better than the ACOG as it is simply incredible. There are simply real world limitations as to what can be done with glass and Trijicon is as close to that wall as anybody. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 8:06:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience, even using the Bindon Aiming Concept, unless you practice doing it all the time, it is hard to track a running animal with a magnified optic. The eye just takes too long to adjust and register between seeing it with the unaided eye and the eye looking through the scope, putting it together to make a good shot without a lot of concentration. And if you're winded or if there are other distractions going on it's extremely hard to do under stress without lots of practice. And as the target doesn't always give you the time to shoot it, time is of the essence. It is difficult to shoot moving targets anyway even with iron sights, but the red dot makes it so much easier as it's just a floating red dot. You are not trying to align front sight in rear sight on a moving target, just pass the red dot over the moving target and with good trigger control and follow through, make the shot. You don't have the problem of trying to get the target into the scope view with the unaided eye, then try to zero in while the target is in the scope view and let the scoped eye take over. I do understand the BAC, but like I said, without lots of practice, for some people it's difficult to master. And in stressful situations, K.I.S.S. rules, this is why I prefer the non-magnified red-dot for most applications I'd use an AR for. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 9:28:32 PM EDT
[#35]
I wish I knew the answer to the OP's question, then I wouldn't own a dozen different types of optics and still be checking out more.
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Posted: 7/31/2017 10:01:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I knew the answer to the OP's question, then I wouldn't own a dozen different types of optics and still be checking out more. 
IMO as far as general purpose though nothing over a 1-6 is needed. I tried a 1-8 and just didn't care for it. So from an Aimpoint to a 1-6 I don't think you can go wrong, just have to decide what works out best for you and what you're most comfortable with. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 10:02:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Double Tap
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Posted: 7/31/2017 10:38:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I knew the answer to the OP's question, then I wouldn't own a dozen different types of optics and still be checking out more.  I'm just teasing you. I get it. I guess the upside is that it's good to have options. In my hunting experience, it always seemed like whatever the optimum was, there were times it wasn't on my gun when I needed it. I hunted with a 4x and had too many times where I couldn't get a moving deer in the scope fast enough. And then I went to iron sights and did well. But there were times I could've used a little bit of magnification. Which kind of answers my question. I think a 2x scope does a lot without being too much magnification for up close or moving targets. Which is the conclusion I come to often but not ever bought a TA-44. I should probably start saving for one.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 1:10:39 AM EDT
[#39]
I agree with the 0-300 yards crowd. Most targets will be selected within this range. I would choose a non-magnifying optic as a balance of all factors, cost included, and recommend an Aimpoint or Trijicon MRO. When discounting cost, the best would probably be a 1-6x or 1-8x scope. It takes serious money to get a lightweight one. The fixed power optics are too much compromise, and the variable power optics with clear glass are heavy until you start trading hundred dollar bills for ounces. Compromises everywhere.
Nothing is a substitute for perfect eyesight. I have a SWFA SS HD 1-6x24 that I bought on special for $750 and it's heavy at 22.4 oz, but versatile. Like eracer, I love the reticle. I spent more time reading about reticles than the other features of scopes in my price range. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:20:53 AM EDT
[#40]
Steiner P4Xi 1-4 is what you are looking for.
If you go to war take what they issue. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:30:31 AM EDT
[#41]
aimpoint
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:39:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone taking shots at over 600y in any scenario, with a 5.56, is silly Doing it with my 1-4× is super-difficult and silly...... 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:23:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. Us old guys who were in the corps did it with irons to Qual. Doing it with my 1-4× is super-difficult and silly...... |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:23:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Double Tap
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:35:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
variable power 1x - whatever |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:44:05 AM EDT
[#46]
My Razor 1-6x is my favorite optic. Easy to shoot really close, and I've had very good accuracy out to 500yds many times.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:16:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. Us old guys who were in the corps did it with irons to Qual. Doing it with my 1-4× is super-difficult and silly...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone taking shots at over 600y in any scenario, with a 5.56, is silly Doing it with my 1-4× is super-difficult and silly...... Practically speaking 600y shots with a 5.56 makes little sense |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:17:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One more optic for the rest of your life, 1x-whatever is the way to go. Covering all your basis with one optic. I would get a Trijicon Accupoint, I'm big on the no battery thing right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
variable power 1x - whatever |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 1:50:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For MY purposes, which may or may not be relevant to YOUR purposes an Aimpoint M3. Short of some apocalyptic fantasy I will never use an AR defensively OR offensively outside of 200yds. I have a 3-9x on a fun rifle, but all of my defensive rifles wear an RDS (or just irons). As far an apocalypse rifle... I have no idea, my mind doesn't wander there (yet) 
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Posted: 8/2/2017 2:51:45 AM EDT
[#50]
I think just as many people here have courtroom fantasies.
Where I live, I am not required to seek cover (which is still a great idea) or retreat. I hope there is no legal obligation to do this where you live either. If someone is trying to kill me, I can try to kill them right back. Out towards the maximum effective range of the 5.56mm AR, a magnified optic certainly increases the utility of the firearm. Rarely are shots taken near max effective range. Of course, you'll never hit anything you don't shoot at.
Magnified optics make it easier to aim precisely at distant targets, and to identify targets which are difficult to distinguish, however, they decrease target acquisition and traverse/transition speeds at short range. That's the trade-off. Variable power optics allow you to work at both ends of the spectrum, but close range is more relevant most of the time. I would hope all shots are as precise as the timeframe allows, especially defensive ones. It's important to not miss when you're stopping deadly threats. |
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