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Link Posted: 4/28/2011 1:21:28 PM EDT
[#1]
The rifle should surprise you when shooting for accuracy. Try exhaling,get sight picture,then squeeze. Let the shot surprise you so your not anticipate the recoil.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 1:34:25 PM EDT
[#2]



Quoted:


The rifle should surprise you when shooting for accuracy. Try exhaling,get sight picture,then squeeze. Let the shot surprise you so your not anticipate the recoil.


and natural point of aim

 









get comfortable, get on the rifle, then close your eyes..... sit there for a minute or two with your eyes closed just relaxing....







when you open them you should still be right on target







if not, move your body a bit so you are....
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:54:12 PM EDT
[#3]
To practice trigger control you can do the "dime drill". From the prone position with an unloaded firearm have a buddy balance a dime on the barrell. With proper trigger squeeze the dime should not fall off.

How long did it take you to shoot all of the rounds in that picture?
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:54:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I still want to know what the OP meant by mechanical zero.


Your FSP is flush with the base & the rear sight apperature is centered.


This


Got it.

I wouldn't expect that to be where every rifle's POI is though.  Has anyone here had one that worked out that way?

I've only used ones with fixed FSBs and flip up rear BUIS though.


Correct. You still need to adjust the sights accordingly after seeing where your POI is.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 5:22:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Go to NRA.org, find a  NRA Basic Rifle class.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 6:38:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Something that has done wonders for my pistol shooting is dry firing practice at home.

After making sure that your rifle is safe (unloaded, no magazine, check chamber) acquire proper sight picture aiming at any object in the house. Control you breathing and after you are calm squeeze the trigger. The goal is to go through the motion and make sure that you end up aiming at the exact same place. At the range the recoil would make you loose sight picture for an instant but if you dont have the fundamentals down while dry firing there is no way you could do well shooting for real...This dry fire exercise should help you iron out any jerking or anticipation movement that are detrimental to your shooting.

Consistent proper sight picture is essential:



I prefer the one on the left...But they are both valid...
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 6:42:04 PM EDT
[#7]
If noone has added it yet, when you fire your first six rounds...dont take your face off the stocks. Keep in in the same position and dont worry about where each is landing, you may be surprised to find them closer together.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 7:28:04 PM EDT
[#8]
I didn't see it mentioned but if your rifle recoil is "violent" as you stated, maybe you aren't holding it tight to your shoulder enough. An AR is a fairly low recoil rifle. I would try a larger target if you are using iron sights. That zero target aim point is pretty small at 25 yards let alone 50. Get you a larger bullseye to aim for and see if you get better groups. Also, make sure you aren't resting the rifle on the mag. The dime drill is great for learning trigger control.

Also, my local range doesn't allow prone. Not sure if that's the case for the OP but I think a bench would be good here anyway.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:34:53 AM EDT
[#9]
well you are using a military site. Time to bring the pink dot sticker out for a better point for you to aim at consistently. Make sure optics and sights are tightly secured and work on flinching breathing and trigger pull. And bring it back in to 25 meters thats what the target is made for to replicate a human size target at 300 meters when you are shooting at it at 50 meters its like tring to make a 600 meter shot.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:58:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Your form is all F'ed up. You are pulling everything to the right so I would say your main areas of concern are proper sight picture and cheek weld coupled with poor trigger discipline and overcompensating your grip. I bet you are anticipating the recoil as well. Relax and quit gripping your points of contact so hard. Check your breathing before you shoot and make sure you are loose and relaxed. Fingertip on the trigger and a straight pull to the rear.

You should also get rid of that military 300 yard target and hit the range with a larger zero target, the ones that give you 4 target areas with hash lines every inch. Start at 25 yards shooting center and adjust, and then move out to 50 yards and fine tune. Four things to always remember:

1) Good cheek weld and top of front sight post centered between the 3 and 9 oclock position of the rear sight.
2) Watch your breathing and shoot at the bottom of your exhale
3) Pull straight back on the trigger using the tip of your finger
4) Do not anticipate the recoil.

Step 3 and 4 will eventually become natural instincts as you become more familiar with your rifle.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:44:55 AM EDT
[#11]



Quoted:


Your form is all F'ed up. You are pulling everything to the right so I would say your main areas of concern are proper sight picture and cheek weld coupled with poor trigger discipline and overcompensating your grip. I bet you are anticipating the recoil as well. Relax and quit gripping your points of contact so hard. Check your breathing before you shoot and make sure you are loose and relaxed. Fingertip on the trigger and a straight pull to the rear.



You should also get rid of that military 300 yard target and hit the range with a larger zero target, the ones that give you 4 target areas with hash lines every inch. Start at 25 yards shooting center and adjust, and then move out to 50 yards and fine tune. Four things to always remember:



1) Good cheek weld and top of front sight post centered between the 3 and 9 oclock position of the rear sight.

2) Watch your breathing and shoot at the bottom of your exhale

3) Pull straight back on the trigger using the tip of your finger

4) Do not anticipate the recoil.



Step 3 and 4 will eventually become natural instincts as you become more familiar with your rifle.



that is a military BZO target for 25 meters



the target will work fine, I agree he needs to move in though, otherwise he's shooting at "600"










 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:02:58 AM EDT
[#12]
I guess I just don't know if I had my head tilted to far over the stock. I have a nice tight cheek weld but it seems like everytime I fire I move the cheek and cannot get back on target.

Everytime I fire the muzzle ends up in a diff place, and does not stay on the same point at the target I was aiming at. I guess it really all is just fundamentals. I will do some dry firing.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:21:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I guess I just don't know if I had my head tilted to far over the stock. I have a nice tight cheek weld but it seems like everytime I fire I move the cheek and cannot get back on target.

Everytime I fire the muzzle ends up in a diff place, and does not stay on the same point at the target I was aiming at. I guess it really all is just fundamentals. I will do some dry firing.


The muzzle is going to climb when you fire, but just held the rifle tight and get back on target before you squeeze off another round. Don't get too caught up in what kind of target you are using. When I was a kid I use to use a sharpie and paper plated or computer paper to make all of my targets. Of course that was back when computer paper and little strips with holes in it running down the side. I must be getting old.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:54:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I'm seeing breathing while firing, inconsistent sight picture, and jerking the trigger (if you're a righty)


Breathing while firing - Yep
Inconsistent sight picture - Yep
Jerking trigger - cannot determine yet due to the other errors.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 9:04:17 AM EDT
[#15]
It doesn't matter what target you are using.  You need to be able to shoot consistent types of groups before you can consider adjusting for zero.  If your zeroing at 50 yards and aiming dead center and hitting dead center at 50 yards, what is actually printed on the target means nothing.  

You are on an 8x11" paper at 50 so that is good.  Easy to adjust from here provided you can hold a good consistent group.  Even though your windage is off, it is fairly consistent (unless if there were another 50 rounds off the paper to the right) and you really can adjust for windage at this point.  However your elevation correction is more complicated.  If you were to actually call all of those shots on paper an actual group, the center of that group would be about dead center of the paper.  Is it possible that it is the weapon or ammo or both?  Yes it is possible.  Best way to confirm this is to let someone who is a good shooter fire the weapon.  Is it possible that you fundamentals are lacking?  Very possible and most likely the case.  

Setting up at 25yards is a good idea, not because of the target, but perhaps you will be better able to see your consistent point of aim throughout the trigger press and you might tighten up the groups considerably.  However note that USGI specs for this platform is 4MOA.  So at 50 yards you are looking at 8".  In reality these rifles shoot much better, but you would at least be shooting Center of Mass hits at 50.  Not great but a starting point.  So bottom line, forget about what target you use, it doesn't matter.  Try to get someone else to shoot the rifle to confirm if it is the rifle or the shooter.  Get some instruction on proper application of fundamentals.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 9:14:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Why does everyone keep sayin its a 25yrd target!!! Its meters whih is 27.33yrds and at that distance the target is the size of a man at 300meters so try gettig a neon colored dot to slap on it to help you find the center
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:21:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:26:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:57:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Have u ever show a rifle before op?

I ask because my firsttime i was nervous to really get down on the stock and put my nose to the CH which is def something u should do, but it is nerve racking ur first time
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:17:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I just don't know if I had my head tilted to far over the stock. I have a nice tight cheek weld but it seems like everytime I fire I move the cheek and cannot get back on target.

Sounds like your stock is too low on your shoulder.


Everytime I fire the muzzle ends up in a diff place, and does not stay on the same point at the target I was aiming at. I guess it really all is just fundamentals. I will do some dry firing.

That is that 'natural point of aim' NUCdt was talking about.  Your body is not 'pointing' right and you're trying to use your muscles to move the rifle onto the target.  That will severly hamper accuacy and reduce followup time.

Adjust your body till the rifle is pointing at the target naturally.  You'll know your there when you can aim at the target, close your eyes for a second or two, then open them and the sights are still pretty much on target.  IF the sights are not pointing at the target then adjust your body to compensate and try again.



Should the entire butt end of the stock be tucked into my shoulder, or is it ok to have some of the top part of the stock up above my shoulder?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:32:38 PM EDT
[#21]
ditch the grippod, sight in correctly.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:37:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
ditch the grippod, sight in correctly.


Agreed the grippod is great, but i dont reccomend zeroing with it
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:54:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:14:17 PM EDT
[#24]
'I just figured mechanical was a good starting point to begin to sight in at, then go from there'

That's right, but why didn't you at least move the rear sight aperture to the left to get on line? Then you could work on the front sight if you're high or low. It's true that you need to be able to shoot a nice group in order to zero, but it's okay to move the sights when you obviously are shooting mostly to one side. I use a trick to teach the use of the aperture sight for good sight picture; imagine that you're looking through a scope with a crossed reticle. The top of the front sight post should be squarely at the intersection of the 'cross hairs' - in the center of the circle vertically and horizontally. Then you put the front sight on the target while keeping it centered. This means moving the gun until its lined up. If the resulting shots don't hit the point of aim at 25m, adjust the sights until they do. Now you will be high at 50m but can make fine adjustment on the windage; the same at 100m where you will be even higher.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:06:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Put your TV on CNN and dry shoot every liberal talking POS you see for an hour a day for a week. Then buy a new firing pin and go to the range you will see dramatic differences.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 7:32:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 7:54:27 PM EDT
[#27]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

I guess I just don't know if I had my head tilted to far over the stock. I have a nice tight cheek weld but it seems like everytime I fire I move the cheek and cannot get back on target.


Sounds like your stock is too low on your shoulder.






Everytime I fire the muzzle ends up in a diff place, and does not stay on the same point at the target I was aiming at. I guess it really all is just fundamentals. I will do some dry firing.


That is that 'natural point of aim' NUCdt was talking about.  Your body is not 'pointing' right and you're trying to use your muscles to move the rifle onto the target.  That will severly hamper accuacy and reduce followup time.



Adjust your body till the rifle is pointing at the target naturally.  You'll know your there when you can aim at the target, close your eyes for a second or two, then open them and the sights are still pretty much on target.  IF the sights are not pointing at the target then adjust your body to compensate and try again.







Should the entire butt end of the stock be tucked into my shoulder, or is it ok to have some of the top part of the stock up above my shoulder?





Top part should be above your shoulder.


yep- get the rifle high in the pocket of your shoulder, that'll help you get a good cheek weld on the stock

 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 8:27:54 PM EDT
[#28]
I know what target that is, perhaps I should have clarified what I meant with that comment. I was in the military and zeroed my duty rifle with that 25/300 target. I have since moved on to the Santose improved battlesight zero and zero all of my ARs at 50. For the normal everyday non-military shooter those targets can get frustrating. I was only making a suggestion that might make his zeroing a little bit easier.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 8:35:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Put your TV on CNN and dry shoot every liberal talking POS you see for an hour a day for a week. Then buy a new firing pin and go to the range you will see dramatic differences.


Why buy a new firing pin?  You can dry fire the AR for thousands and thousands of rounds with no problems.


I think he was kidding.

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