Quoted: d-moon- I do not think most were in any way ranting about "not getting a genuine Commando" It was as El_Abogado said, a matter of representing these as Commando's - a special production run, a one time model, etc. and it ultimately being a LE6921 lower with an 11.5" upper. This is a configuration that is hardly rare (albeit rarely seen, due to  the SBR challenges/hassles) The gun is  a great set up. It is all Colt. It is a special model run. It is very much appreciated. It is not a Commando, and probably should not have been referred to as such I don't think anyone was "going off" on the seller for anything, but simply pointing out what I just tried to do. It wasn't really priced like a one of a kind either. Otherwise, I suspect it  would  be a big deal

+1

 Well, I certainly didn't make that post to win any popularity contests.  My contention, (and I stand firmly upon it is that) the Commando designation as originally intended, is a thing of the past, though the MONNIKER still sticks.  The fact that the word "Commando" needs to appear anywhere is absolutely beyond me.  It's a TOOL.  If you wanna CALL it a "Commando"....feel free but whether or not the WORD itself appears on the gun seem to be of absolutely NO import to me, whatsover and hardly worthy of consideration considering it is NOT actually in any true Commado configuration.  The essentials here, are that as a tool it will do it's job as designed and will do it with glee and abandon.  THAT is the only important thing.

 Yes, it's a matter of semantics and, by God, if you think me wrong, an asshat OR Santa Clause ( or Satan Claws ), please feel free....my comments are worthy of it and I take full responsibility for ...BUT, I am standing by them.  It seemed to me ( and still does ) a bit ungrateful to worry about the production code semantics of such a nice piece....HELL, I'd just about prostitute myself out for one of these....but I just can't justify it.  So, if it makes those of who want my head on a platter feel any better...you're getting one and I am not....I'll just have to be satisfied with my 6520 and my Sporter IIs. ( which, I can be...but that doesn't mean I am NOT jealous )

Bro..... are you having a bad day?

Seriously, its not a big deal, and no one wants to get you jacked up over it.  





(but I disagree with your "its just a tool" perspective. ). It is to soldiers and LE SWAT types, but to me these are one part defense, and one part artwork)

Then again this is what discussion forums are all about - sharing views and ideas with both like-minded folks and those with opposing points of view.

Quoted: Bro..... are you having a bad day? Seriously, its not a big deal, and no one wants to get you jacked up over it.   (but I disagree with your "its just a tool" perspective. ). It is to soldiers and LE SWAT types, but to me these are one part defense, and one part artwork) Then again this is what discussion forums are all about - sharing views and ideas with both like-minded folks and those with opposing points of view.

Well.......it's a long story...and it's hard to explain but believe it or not it has to do with this thread and some LE friends who gave me a REALLLLLY hard time about it.....and I couldn't defend against their arguments...and I felt they were right....and so on and so on.....etcetera, etcetera

I certainly could have broached the subject more civally...but I didn't...

When it comes to Colt, I am very defensive, I am sick and tired of people bashing a company that does its best to turn out a good product and 99.9 times out of 100 it DOES.  If this thread was about Bushie or Armalite, I could not have cared any less but when it comes to a company that actually turns out a product that IS completely worthy of use.

Not to mention, I still think that the whole thing is apples to apples....it's the GUN that counts.  It's pure COLT and that is all the "Commando" it needs.  I think it was VERY stand up for Spiwak and JB Arms to bust their asses to get these guns to the guys who love them and understand that COLT  IS the end all be all of serious AR manufacture.  I can say this with utter confidence because I work QC ( Laser weld sectioning and measurement ) for a major coproration and I know damn well that Armalite and Bushie do NOT do one tenth the QC that Colt does.  In ALL FAIRNESS TO THEM, the cannot afford to....the labor and equipment costs for such Q.C. are astronomical.  Another reason I admire these guys is because Colt's PC management is not making it very easy for such things to happen.  So, if it was me buying one from either of these guys I'd be buying 'em the best dinner I could afford them for helping me get ahold of one of these.

So, sorry to have been so uncivil..but I was and I'll take the consequences....

However, Redfisher, thanks for asking...seriously.....

Dude, seriously, you are an idiot.

There are no "Commandos"?  Really?  Look here for the Colt M4 Commando marketed to LE.  Here is a hi-res photo of the receiver and it says "Commando."  Now, of course, it's select-fire and none of us expected we were getting one.  The semi-auto SBR that we got was marketed as a "Commando" and I (not speaking for others) received numerous communications in which I was told affirmatively that this rifle was marked "Commando".

As for your argument that the name doesn't matter, it's a tool, that's idiocy.  Ask Colt and Bushmaster about this, given the litigation over the use of "M4".  The name matters, pal.

So you are a Colt defender?  Really?  I know C_Jan, Redfisher, dpmmn, YardDogOne, and the other Kool-aid drinkers from the Industry forum, but I've never seen you there.  I ran a search on the archives and I couldn't find any of your posts in the Colt forum.  If you are going to question my views on Colt indirectly, as you did, you ought to know where I stand on that company.  Here's a clue:  All my carbines are Colt; all my 1911s are Colt.  

And the best part of this thread is that you don't even own one of these rifles.  Unfuckingbelievable anywhere but on the internet.

I'll say it again.  You are an idiot.

ETA:  

Well.......it's a long story...and it's hard to explain but believe it or not it has to do with this thread and some LE friends who gave me a REALLLLLY hard time about it.....and I couldn't defend against their arguments...and I felt they were right....and so on and so on.....etcetera, etcetera

Smells like bullshit to me. . . .

Quoted: Dude, seriously, you are an idiot. There are no "Commandos"?  Really?  Look here for the Colt M4 Commando marketed to LE.  Here is a hi-res photo of the receiver and it says "Commando."  Now, of course, it's select-fire and none of us expected we were getting one.  The semi-auto SBR that we got was marketed as a "Commando" and I (not speaking for others) received numerous communications in which I was told affirmatively that this rifle was marked "Commando". As for your argument that the name doesn't matter, it's a tool, that's idiocy.  Ask Colt and Bushmaster about this, given the litigation over the use of "M4".  The name matters, pal. So you are a Colt defender?  Really?  I know C_Jan, Redfisher, dpmmn, YardDogOne, and the other Kool-aid drinkers from the Industry forum, but I've never seen you there.  I ran a search on the archives and I couldn't find any of your posts in the Colt forum.  If you are going to question my views on Colt indirectly, as you did, you ought to know where I stand on that company.  Here's a clue:  All my carbines are Colt; all my 1911s are Colt.   And the best part of this thread is that you don't even own one of these rifles.  Unfuckingbelievable anywhere but on the internet. I'll say it again.  You are an idiot. ETA:   Well.......it's a long story...and it's hard to explain but believe it or not it has to do with this thread and some LE friends who gave me a REALLLLLY hard time about it.....and I couldn't defend against their arguments...and I felt they were right....and so on and so on.....etcetera, etcetera Smells like bullshit to me. . . .

You've got some very good points in there and as much as I'd love to have one of them very sexy rifles, (Illinois) It would upset me greatly if it did not have the "Commando" name on it, I remember one of the big selling points for me was the rollmark

And desertmoon, you are looking alittle trollish over here

Quoted: Dude, seriously, you are an idiot. Dammit...I'm in for the long haul....idiot it is.... There are no "Commandos"?  Really?  Look here for the Colt M4 Commando marketed to LE.  Here is a hi-res photo of the receiver and it says "Commando."  Now, of course, it's select-fire and none of us expected we were getting one.  The semi-auto SBR that we got was marketed as a "Commando" and I (not speaking for others) received numerous communications in which I was told affirmatively that this rifle was marked "Commando".   Okay, okay...there's current Commandos.  I was more specifically referrring to the original Commando Program that was ended in 1970.  But dammit, if Colt brought 'em back...by God, then they brought 'em back....and I'm sorry that they didn't stamp the new Semi's "Commando".....   But.....I still think that Commando should refer to at least the select fire weapons.  That's my belief but since I don't run Colt....I have no say.   As for your argument that the name doesn't matter, it's a tool, that's idiocy.  Ask Colt and Bushmaster about this, given the litigation over the use of "M4".  The name matters, pal. That's concerning copyright and trademark law....a different matter in my opinion So you are a Colt defender?  Really?  I know C_Jan, Redfisher, dpmmn, YardDogOne, and the other Kool-aid drinkers from the Industry forum, but I've never seen you there.      I ran a search on the archives and I couldn't find any of your posts in the Colt forum. [try Handguns, 1911, General Firearms, etc....] If you are going to question my views on Colt indirectly, as you did, you ought to know where I stand on that company.  Here's a clue:  All my carbines are Colt; all my 1911s are Colt.   Me, too, in fact, nearly everyting in my safe is either Colt or Smith and Wesson...except my M1As...but that's only because Colt doesn't make the M1a   And the best part of this thread is that you don't even own one of these rifles.  Unfuckingbelievable anywhere but on the internet.  Don't suppose I could talk you out of yours, could I??? I'll say it again.  You are an idiot. Alright already...I get it!!!! ETA:   Well.......it's a long story...and it's hard to explain but believe it or not it has to do with this thread and some LE friends who gave me a REALLLLLY hard time about it.....and I couldn't defend against their arguments...and I felt they were right....and so on and so on.....etcetera, etcetera Smells like bullshit to me. . . .

Sorry....sad but true....I have no reason to make it up.....I bowed to the peer pressure....and, well, like I said, I'll do this (right or wrong) for the long haul.

Quoted: And desertmoon, you are looking alittle trollish over here

Guilty as charged.  I'll not deny it.

Dude, nobody's knocking Colt products and nobody's ungrateful with Howard and JB Arms.  All in all, it's still a really good deal and overall I'm happy with it. . . .   +1 to Howard and JB Arms for doing it, it's not what was advertised and if your "LE" buddies have a problem with that, they ought to post their thoughts in this thread.

And here's mine:

For what it's worth, my department just (after a 7 month wait) received its order of 11.5" Colt rifles to replace our 40 cal MP5's that we could no longer get parts for.

I shot one today after we cleaned all the packing gunk out of it.  All of our new rifles have the giggle switch and this one ran all day with no problems.  

I specifically checked to see if the receiver was marked "Commando" and it was.

After reading this thread, I'm a little confused.  Do all of the Class III, select-fire  Colts bear this designation and is this designation  unique to the semi-auto (though SBR) rifles?

As an aside, I find it interesting that the LEO agency price for one of these select-fire weapons, is only $20 more than for a standard 20" semi-auto, go-down-to-the-gun-store-and-buy-it rifle.  $840 vs $820.

Ok.  Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Quoted: Dude, nobody's knocking Colt products and nobody's ungrateful with Howard and JB Arms.  All in all, it's still a really good deal and overall I'm happy with it. . . .   +1 to Howard and JB Arms for doing it, it's not what was advertised and if your "LE" buddies have a problem with that, they ought to post their thoughts in this thread. And here's mine: www.moast.com/free_image_hosting/70818

DAMN!!!!  Don't make me go buy one....I'm supposed to get a new series 70 tomotrrow!!!

That is one GORGEOUS gun!

Also, for what it's worth,  my apologies to everyone for my comments...they were unwarranted and I could have expressed my opinions in a much better fashion than I did.

I'm surprised the company that wasn't putting out flash hiders for a while and actually thought of a special cut in BC's and a sear block is putting out something as non-PC as a factory SBR.  


Or is this not a Colt production rifle?

Quoted: Or is this not a Colt production rifle?

It is a production rifle, but a limited production rifle, same as the 6921SP that SAW has.  They are all based around the 6921, which has the same rollmark and has a 14.5" barrel.  Hey, it's a great thing to have a factory-built SBR from Colt!

Quoted: I'm surprised the company that wasn't putting out flash hiders for a while and actually thought of a special cut in BC's and a sear block is putting out something as non-PC as a factory SBR.   Or is this not a Colt production rifle?

From what I heard, they are a special order from LE Departments that require SAO instead of FA. This batch came up as something of the sort where a department wanted say, 200, and 300 were ordered, so the other 100 were sold.

That said, SAW has no problem getting SBR factory Colts, so I doubt Colt has too many problems with it. (It'd be interesting to see if BM, Arm, or RRA do factory SBR's.)

"wasn't putting out flashhiders"? Do you mean when they removed the bayonet lugs? I don't recall them cutting the FH's before the ban.

In speaking with a Colt manager, he mentioned that their legal team and ATF have hashed out stuff before, and Colt seems to face more ATF oversight than others. In order to get rid of the dumbass big pivot, they compromised with non-milspec FCG. They also now have M16 Carriers in new rifles (LE or MT).

I've mentioned it before, but I think the difference between Colt and say Armalite or Bushmaster, is that Colt is run as a large corporation. The lawyers and accountants have too much say so, as does the Union. BM and Armalite have more of a direct-owner/ management setup. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. In Colt's case, it insulates them from their customers wishes, but also results in a tighter quality control IMO.

Oh, and I don't care what mine says on the side. I wanted a factory SBR;

Guys,

Just curious - does anyone know why they chose to use the lightweight barrel on this "M4?"  I was interested in trying to track one of these down, but I was disappointed to see that they didn't use the "normal" heavy barrel associated with the M4 model.  That makes me more inclined to buy a 6921 instead (which I assume has the heavy barrel, although I haven't seen a picture of it).  I'm just not a fan of the skinny barrel, maybe from being in the military after the introduction of the M16A2 (although I shot M16A1s as a cadet).  Just a personal preference...

Unrelated question: Anyone have any experience with the 10" version that SAW is offering?  After all the lengthy discussions about 10.5" vs. 11.5" and how many people have had reliability problems with 10.5" barrels, I'm surprised that Colt would shorten it even further.  Did they make any modifications to the gas system?  Any reports from the range about how they operate?

Thanks,

Dave

OKI just found this thread. What is the contact info for JB to order a rifle?
Will a DIAS fit in or do these have the sear block?

Quoted: OKI just found this thread. What is the contact info for JB to order a rifle? Will a DIAS fit in or do these have the sear block?

It has a sear block.  Search for Commando.  There's some info on the Colt page. . . .

Quoted: OKI just found this thread. What is the contact info for JB to order a rifle? Will a DIAS fit in or do these have the sear block?

I heard he still has some

Here is the original ad. (they have since arrived and most shipped out)



JB Arms
9138 West Chester Pike
Upper Darby, PA 19082

Quoted: Guys, Just curious - does anyone know why they chose to use the lightweight barrel on this "M4?"  I was interested in trying to track one of these down, but I was disappointed to see that they didn't use the "normal" heavy barrel associated with the M4 model.  That makes me more inclined to buy a 6921 instead (which I assume has the heavy barrel, although I haven't seen a picture of it).  I'm just not a fan of the skinny barrel, maybe from being in the military after the introduction of the M16A2 (although I shot M16A1s as a cadet).  Just a personal preference... Unrelated question: Anyone have any experience with the 10" version that SAW is offering?  After all the lengthy discussions about 10.5" vs. 11.5" and how many people have had reliability problems with 10.5" barrels, I'm surprised that Colt would shorten it even further.  Did they make any modifications to the gas system?  Any reports from the range about how they operate? Thanks, Dave

The 11.5" barrel is the same one on the R0933 Commando.  This version is designated 6933, since it's a semi-auto.

My 6933 rocks.  Haven't shot the SAW 10" model, but knowing those guys I'm sure tha the rifle works properly.