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Posted: 5/18/2018 4:17:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poor logic. It is like saying you have had unprotected group sex 3 times and you are STD free. Fine. Nothing bad has happened yet. But, the odds are against you in the long run. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've got an EXPS 2-2 (new logo), only ~120 rds so far but I'm digging it. AP on my other rigs, so new ball game for me. Wasn't sure how I'd like it but impressed thus far. Fine. Nothing bad has happened yet. But, the odds are against you in the long run. As for the unprotected group sex, it was only once and my clinic says I am gtg. 
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Posted: 5/18/2018 4:29:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Can't get a reply from PSA on whether or not what they're selling are the new updated models so I guess I'll just pull the trigger and if it is the old, defective version I will just return it.
Somehow I have a bad feeling it is the old version which is why its so cheap. Hopefully I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 6:48:10 AM EDT
[#3]
delete
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Posted: 5/20/2018 6:59:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I personally never lost faith, but I did stay silent. I think the issue was overblown. Things I found out before purchasing my Eotech: - Eotech was not the only optic with thermal drift, others just didn't get CAUGHT lying. - Only a few manufacturers immediately came out and admitted to thermal drift initially, including D.I. Optical, Vortex and someone esle.., can't remember - I've spoken and have worked with Rangers as well as MARSOC, none that I have brought this topic up to have given a "sh*t" or cared about the thermal drift issue since it's was practically non-existent in the REAL WORLD and weapons are re-zeroed right after arriving in country anyways (extreme change in climate) and yes they STILL preferred Eotech OVER Aimpoint. - People have admitted to using the refund/return program even after not having a single issue after years of use of their Eotech sight. But even after throwing money at people they are still an evil organization (sarcasm) - An Eotech rep has stated sales were not even affected during the whole debacle and L3 was in no way affected financially.., which is funny because if you listen to the internets, you'd expect EO to be bankrupt by now or something. - Multiple engineers were pulled from all across L3 to work on pre-existing issues that are now fixed. - I've personally witnessed aimpoint fanboys intentionally blow the Eotech debacle way out of proportion just to give praise to their aimpoints 
Moral of the story is: Reality > Internet. Eotechs are awesome. Aren't they said to be the most popular optic in the world still? Pretty sure that's for a good reason. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 7:01:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Love my EXPS-2, I think it took me around 2 months of research before I made the decision based off talking to real operators and not people on the internet. Glad I went with EO. - Eotech was not the only optic with thermal drift, others just didn't get CAUGHT lying. - Only a few manufacturers immediately came out and admitted to thermal drift initially, including D.I. Optical, Vortex and someone esle.., can't remember - I've spoken and have worked with Rangers as well as MARSOC, none that I have brought this topic up to have given a "sh*t" or cared about the thermal drift issue since it's was practically non-existent in the REAL WORLD and weapons are re-zeroed right after arriving in country anyways (extreme change in climate) and yes they STILL preferred Eotech OVER Aimpoint. - People have admitted to using the refund/return program even after not having a single issue after years of use of their Eotech sight. But yet Eotech is a horrible evil organization for throwing money at people. - An Eotech rep has stated sales were not even affected during the whole debacle and L3 was in no way affected financially.., which is funny because if you listen to the internets, you'd expect EO to be bankrupt by now or something. - Multiple engineers were pulled from all across L3 to work on pre-existing issues that are now fixed. - I've personally witnessed aimpoint fanboys intentionally blow the Eotech debacle way out of proportion just to give praise to their aimpoints
Moral of the story is: Reality > Internet |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 7:17:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great post! I didn’t take advantage of the refunds, and I’ve bought 3 new eotechs in the last year. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 8:05:15 AM EDT
[#7]
I was considering buying a eotech but have probably changed my mind. A local LE Agency swapped out their old stock eotechs last year for the newer models during the big buyback/swap. During qualifications 4 of 25 on were found defective. I saw video of one defective unit that had the little red plate just rattling around inside( sorry, don't know the verbiage). They have been removed from all patrol rifles and the LEOs had to re-qualify with iron sites. Ironically, the average qualification score went up when officers were shooting iron sites.
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:50:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes! Another free thinker! I think it took me around 2 months of research before I made the decision based off talking to real operators and not people on the internet. Glad I went with Eotech, and I only paid $340 for my EXPS-2. Things I found out before purchasing my Eotech: - Eotech was not the only optic with thermal drift, others just didn't get CAUGHT lying. - Only a few manufacturers immediately came out and admitted to thermal drift initially, including D.I. Optical, Vortex and someone esle.., can't remember - I've spoken and have worked with Rangers as well as MARSOC, none that I have brought this topic up to have given a "sh*t" or cared about the thermal drift issue since it's was practically non-existent in the REAL WORLD and weapons are re-zeroed right after arriving in country anyways (extreme change in climate) and yes they STILL preferred Eotech OVER Aimpoint. - People have admitted to using the refund/return program even after not having a single issue after years of use of their Eotech sight. But even after throwing money at people they are still an evil organization (sarcasm) - An Eotech rep has stated sales were not even affected during the whole debacle and L3 was in no way affected financially.., which is funny because if you listen to the internets, you'd expect EO to be bankrupt by now or something. - Multiple engineers were pulled from all across L3 to work on pre-existing issues that are now fixed. - I've personally witnessed aimpoint fanboys intentionally blow the Eotech debacle way out of proportion just to give praise to their aimpoints
Moral of the story is: Reality > Internet. Eotechs are awesome. Aren't they said to be the most popular optic in the world still? Pretty sure that's for a good |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 12:13:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of the refunds given out to people are a tax write off. Hence not L3 not being affected financially. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 1:48:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of the refunds given out to people are a tax write off. Hence not L3 not being affected financially. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 3:39:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol,I assume it you don't own a business or have any accounting experience. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 4:26:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure that's how it works but then again I don't know anything about corporate tax. I don't think people realize though how massive L3 is and how much theyve actually supported the warfighter with their products. I work in the aerial surveillance field and everything from cameras, generator interface screens, fiber optic network components to payload avionics have L3 trademarks on them. That's not even scratching the surface. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 4:33:31 PM EDT
[#13]
I hate how hard it is to find real, factual info on the newer gen XPS series.
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Posted: 5/20/2018 6:38:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate how hard it is to find real, factual info on the newer gen XPS series. 
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Posted: 5/20/2018 7:47:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks man.
I guess I'm dating myself but in my time the M68 was the M2. I believe at the time no other unit was issuing them at the division level either. I personally never saw one of those or the M145 (M240/249) break (except for a gun or two that "burned in" on a jump to error/equipment failure) but maybe we were lucky. I think I saw a broken mount or two on the old M68. I had one of the early, early eotechs many many years ago. I like the window and reticle for extreme close range but have never given an XPS/EXPS a run and was hoping to with the newer units being "fixed". |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:24:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks man. I guess I'm dating myself but in my time the M68 was the M2. I believe at the time no other unit was issuing them at the division level either. I personally never saw one of those or the M145 (M240/249) break (except for a gun or two that "burned in" on a jump to error/equipment failure) but maybe we were lucky. I think I saw a broken mount or two on the old M68. I had one of the early, early eotechs many many years ago. I like the window and reticle for extreme close range but have never given an XPS/EXPS a run and was hoping to with the newer units being "fixed". |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 10:21:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's your point? This thread is about EOTech red dot sights. L3 is a big company. They should have taken better care of their retail customers (us) and should not have defrauded their "bread and butter" US Government customers, either. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 12:40:07 PM EDT
[#18]
I loved my Eotech until the truth got out. Eotech knowingly sold defective gear to the military and law enforcement. Lives were potentially endangered. Sorry but they've lost me. I got my $500 back from the class action lawyers and am looking for another optic for my AR-15.
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Posted: 5/21/2018 2:16:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, did you even read the comment I was replying to? The gentleman was implying that tax right offs helped keep Eotech ahead but I'm stating that it has more to do with L3 (the parent company) being massive. Once again, other companies were hiding thermal drift factors and came out AFTER EO was caught. They gave full refunds to non original owners, whom the majority did NOT even have a faulty unit. What else would you like them to do? Pay off your mortgage also? They would not refund or replace my 3 units because I missed the cut off date for the law suit. I had no notice of the suit until after the closing date and they would not offer those options to me. I do not know why I was never notified of the class action law suit. I am an original owner having purchased through the normal retail suppliers, including product registration. Honestly, I don't care about thermal drift as much as I do poor reliability. One unit ate batteries even when turned off. Another died sitting unused in a gun safe (power lead broke internally just sitting unused). |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 2:56:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Paying off my mortgage would be nice. They would not refund or replace my 3 units because I missed the cut off date for the law suit. I had no notice of the suit until after the closing date and they would not offer those options to me. I do not know why I was never notified of the class action law suit. I am an original owner having purchased through the normal retail suppliers, including product registration. Honestly, I don't care about thermal drift as much as I do poor reliability. One unit ate batteries even when turned off. Another died sitting unused in a gun safe (power lead broke internally just sitting unused). 
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Posted: 5/21/2018 3:35:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still amazed people think this thermal drift thing impacts hem in any way. Don’t matter to the guys carrying them in deserts or cold weather but bill in Ohio can’t have it. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 3:42:14 PM EDT
[#22]
I've never hated them. Mine work fine.
Although, if you love the reticle and sight picture of the EOTech, you might like the Hartman MH1. I checked one out at the LGS and it's very appealing to me. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 4:53:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So true What I don't want are: delamination loss of nitrogen purge Apparently the battery drain issue is not resolved either and the official stance is that if the batteries are in the optic they will deplete to some extent. I can work around this too. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 5:21:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Mine were 3 for 3. All dead. Left a bad taste in my mouth.
As far as .mil using them, I'm not an assaulter with a special unit. I have no control over when the fight happens. I don't get to prep for it shortly before hand. In that role, under those conditions, I wouldn't have the concerns I do. As a civilian concerned about HD, I have different needs. Never knowing if it would come on or not was an issue for me. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 5:27:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have just found out how crappy eotech CS is today. I tried to have them exchange a brand new 2013 xps 2-0 that I bought from Arms Unlimited (I wanted to get a new “problem free” model) They refused to do anything and now I’m stuck returning the XPS 2-0 to Arms Unlimited and having to deal with a 15% restocking fee. PSA got back with me today. They said if I don't open my EXPS3 I can return it. Hopefully I can tell from the box on the outside if it has the new logo and/or see the build date. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 5:39:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine were 3 for 3. All dead. Left a bad taste in my mouth. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 6:00:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, a 5 year old optic still in stock? PSA got back with me today. They said if I don't open my EXPS3 I can return it. Hopefully I can tell from the box on the outside if it has the new logo and/or see the build date.E  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 6:18:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Proudly made in Ann Arbor MI,, I love my eotechs
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Posted: 5/21/2018 6:33:39 PM EDT
[#29]
I have just found out how crappy eotech CS is today. I tried to have them exchange a brand new 2013 xps 2-0 that I bought from Arms Unlimited (I wanted to get a new “problem free” model) They refused to do anything and now I’m stuck returning the XPS 2-0 to Arms Unlimited and having to deal with a 15% restocking fee. 
Use it till or if it breaks then get it fixed. |
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Posted: 5/22/2018 11:10:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks man. I guess I'm dating myself but in my time the M68 was the M2. I believe at the time no other unit was issuing them at the division level either. I personally never saw one of those or the M145 (M240/249) break (except for a gun or two that "burned in" on a jump to error/equipment failure) but maybe we were lucky. I think I saw a broken mount or two on the old M68. I had one of the early, early eotechs many many years ago. I like the window and reticle for extreme close range but have never given an XPS/EXPS a run and was hoping to with the newer units being "fixed". |
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Posted: 5/23/2018 11:19:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was considering buying a eotech but have probably changed my mind. A local LE Agency swapped out their old stock eotechs last year for the newer models during the big buyback/swap. During qualifications 4 of 25 on were found defective. I saw video of one defective unit that had the little red plate just rattling around inside( sorry, don't know the verbiage). They have been removed from all patrol rifles and the LEOs had to re-qualify with iron sites. Ironically, the average qualification score went up when officers were shooting iron sites. I've got a new gen that I plan to put through its paces this summer. Going to attend a few carbine courses, and it's on my road-trip gun, so we shall see how this goes. |
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Posted: 5/23/2018 2:46:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They would not refund or replace my 3 units because I missed the cut off date for the law suit. I had no notice of the suit until after the closing date and they would not offer those options to me. I do not know why I was never notified of the class action law suit. I am an original owner having purchased through the normal retail suppliers, including product registration. Honestly, I don't care about thermal drift as much as I do poor reliability. One unit ate batteries even when turned off. Another died sitting unused in a gun safe (power lead broke internally just sitting unused). |
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Posted: 5/23/2018 10:12:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Hopefully the one that arrives for me tomorrow is a new one.
As much volume as PSA does I'm betting they don't have 2 year old ones on the shelf. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 9:18:57 PM EDT
[#34]
4/10/18. Good to go.
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Posted: 5/24/2018 9:20:54 PM EDT
[#35]
I just got a new one, Arms Unlimited gave me a refund minus 15%, it’s an eotech XPS2-0 made in June 2017. I should be GTG
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:11:15 PM EDT
[#36]
When mounting it is it normal to have to back out the screw many clicks for it to go on from the top and then once its in place, turn it in the same # of clicks to make the lever really snug?
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:29:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Rock it on the rail, lever side first.
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:43:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Yeah, I just learned that the hard way. Now to see how it holds up.
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Posted: 5/25/2018 2:59:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rock it on the rail, lever side first. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 3:45:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got a new one, Arms Unlimited gave me a refund minus 15%, it’s an eotech XPS2-0 made in June 2017. I should be GTG AND, there is the delamination and other reliability issues. Critical thinking boys and girls. It is a turd with a pretty reticle that you don't need. The important word is "turd". |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 4:02:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would you think that? The design has not changed. The zero will still drift with temperature and NOT RETURN TO ZERO. AND, there is the delamination and other reliability issues. Critical thinking boys and girls. It is a turd with a pretty reticle that you don't need. The important word is "turd". |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 10:00:17 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like I’m gonna find out how big of a turd it is when I take my carbine course next month. This optic will be mounted on my back up rifle, but I will probably take it out for a day or two during the course. If it sucks then I’ll ditch it and return it, and buy only Aimpoint. If it works then I bought a working optic like I planned on! And in case anyone is wondering I do have an Aimpoint on my primary rifle I just wanted to try something new is all. I weep for our nation if this is an example of critical thinking. |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 11:40:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Critical thinking fail. You think one weekend is the definition of reliable? Come on. It has a high probability of failing when you least expect it and could need it most. I weep for our nation if this is an example of critical thinking. |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 11:45:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I weep for whoever has to deal with you being such a drama queen on a daily basis.
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Posted: 5/27/2018 12:10:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I weep for whoever has to deal with you being such a drama queen on a daily basis. |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 12:25:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Love my EXPS 3-0. That being said it did crap out on me at the range a couple days ago. Luckily it’s still under warranty.
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Posted: 5/27/2018 12:42:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you think that? The design has not changed. The zero will still drift with temperature and NOT RETURN TO ZERO. AND, there is the delamination and other reliability issues. Critical thinking boys and girls. It is a turd with a pretty reticle that you don't need. The important word is "turd". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you think that? The design has not changed. The zero will still drift with temperature and NOT RETURN TO ZERO. AND, there is the delamination and other reliability issues. Critical thinking boys and girls. It is a turd with a pretty reticle that you don't need. The important word is "turd". Quoted:
Critical thinking fail. You think one weekend is the definition of reliable? Come on. It has a high probability of failing when you least expect it and could need it most. I weep for our nation if this is an example of critical thinking. Quoted:
I weep for whoever has to deal with you being such a drama queen on a daily basis. Quoted:
+1 Quoted:
Love my EXPS 3-0. That being said it did crap out on me at the range a couple days ago. Luckily it’s still under warranty. |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 12:49:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Love my EXPS 3-0. That being said it did crap out on me at the range a couple days ago. Luckily it’s still under warranty. What was the issue? |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 12:53:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Love my EXPS 3-0. That being said it did crap out on me at the range a couple days ago. Luckily it’s still under warranty. |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 1:29:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What broke and is it a new one? |
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