User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:22:21 AM EDT
[#1]
No cool aid would be Spike's I guess. Or a BCM build. But thats a great price on a new Colt. Really you can't go wrong with any of those. I'm voting pie.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:24:35 AM EDT
[#2]
I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:28:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Colt.
No gay looking logo's. Plus Colt has been around a lot longer, and will be around long after Spikes is no longer vogue.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:37:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Colt. No gay looking logo's. (meaningless) Plus Colt has been around a lot longer (also meaningless––Ford has been around longer than Honda, but we all agree that at one point in time Honda was making a far superior product), and will be around long after Spikes is no longer vogue. (once again, has no bearing on the quality of the actual product) As for the "better resale value of the Colt" argument, it's a myth. I recently sold a Spikes upper for 40$ less than what I paid for it. It sold within 24 hours of listing it, and I had multiple serious inquiries, so chances are I could have gotten more. Regardless, I don't believe that resale value should be a significant factor (notice I did NOT say it shouldn't be a factor at all) in choosing an AR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:37:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:39:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
No cool aid would be Spike's I guess. Or a BCM build. But thats a great price on a new Colt. Really you can't go wrong with any of those. I'm voting pie. I didn't include BCM in the conversation because it's not available right now. They're not taking any lower/firearms orders until they work through their back log. I agree, you definitely can't go wrong with either one! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:42:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. By "parts" you mean a middy gas tube and a handguard? With the popularity of mid-length there are tons of options to pick from. The fact that an M4 barrel doesn't hinder you isn't exactly an endorsement either, it's still unnecessary weight that has no practical benefit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:45:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Colt. No gay looking logo's. Plus Colt has been around a lot longer, and will be around long after Spikes is no longer vogue.. I read this as personal preference(logo) and personally assigned intrinsic value. Those definitely play a roll in a buying decision, don't get me wrong, and rightfully so. I just didn't think they would amount to $200, but everyone is different... good thing we have a free market system. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:49:03 AM EDT
[#9]
The only folks I know of that really HATE Colt are arf.commers, believe it or not. Out in the real world, everybody recognizes the name and respects it. By the same token, I don't understand why Spike's seems to get people all pulled by the short and curlies. They make a great rifle and make it according to the known specs of Colt's TDP. Don't like the logo? Go find something with a played-out icon of your choosing (if I see someone else use crosshairs in their logo I'll vomit all over myself).
I would also go with the Real McCoy. Re-sale value usually does matter to most folks eventually. The first gun I ever bought probably won't ever get sold, but there are a some in my safe that may find a new home sometime in the future. At that point, their ability to retain value becomes a valid concern. The Colt will retain its value really well. How much will a used Spikes actually fetch? Of course, that will depend on whether the potential buyer has ever heard of them and whether they give a rat's ass about the details of the specs. The current market, in my opinion, favors the buyer when it comes to high-end firearms. I never saw a Colt sell for under $1300 until the Obama scare subsided and the country went into financial ruin. Hell, people were paying $1k+ for Bushmasters and Rock Rivers during the panic! Moving into the future, I believe we will look back on the present time and say "those were the good days..." and discuss our regrets of things we didn't buy. In other words, a Spikes M-Faux at $800 is a good deal. A Colt 6920 at $1k is an amazing deal. YMMV... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:53:35 AM EDT
[#10]
I replied to the thread you are talking about. I recommended a Colt over the Spikes if he might want to sell it in the next few years. The reason is very simple and you already know this. Way more people know Colt then Spikes. For instance I called a large gun shop in Kernersville NC , I asked the owner of the shop if they carried Spikes AR's and he said " Who ? " . This is a gun shop that does a heck of a lot of business. You will get the $200 back and possibly then some when you go to sell. Of course if you put a Spikes rifle up here, it would sell, but the local store or pawn shop down the road have never heard of Spikes. As hard as it is to believe it is 100% true. But I always recommend buying both of them. That is what I did.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:54:53 AM EDT
[#11]
If I was buying my first AR, I would buy a Colt for $995 rather than a Spike's for $799.
IMO, a Colt 6920 is going to hold its value and resale (if ever necessary) would be easier and return more of my original cost to me. If the two hundred bucks was a real issue, I would gladly own the Spike's. Both are great rifles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 9:56:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt. No gay looking logo's. (meaningless) Plus Colt has been around a lot longer (also meaningless––Ford has been around longer than Honda, but we all agree that at one point in time Honda was making a far superior product), and will be around long after Spikes is no longer vogue. (once again, has no bearing on the quality of the actual product) As for the "better resale value of the Colt" argument, it's a myth. I recently sold a Spikes upper for 40$ less than what I paid for it. It sold within 24 hours of listing it, and I had multiple serious inquiries, so chances are I could have gotten more. Regardless, I don't believe that resale value should be a significant factor (notice I did NOT say it shouldn't be a factor at all) in choosing an AR. Not everyone is an AFRCOMMER selling to other ARFCOMMERS. Glad your sale went well for you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:00:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Outside of this website (where most people live) no one knows anything
about Spikes. Everyone has heard of Colt. Even people not "into guns" know of Colt. Next month Spikes will be another "flavor of the month" that has gone past it's expiration date. Bill |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:02:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Spike who ?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:06:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Colt hands down no questions asked
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:08:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Neither. A 16" M4 barrel is as pointless as a pitcher with no arms. Get a spikes middy. If the apocalypse hits and you somehow need a "non standard midlength gas tube that everyone but colt now uses", you can have one of mine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:08:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: Colt. No gay looking logo's. (meaningless) Plus Colt has been around a lot longer (also meaningless––Ford has been around longer than Honda, but we all agree that at one point in time Honda was making a far superior product), and will be around long after Spikes is no longer vogue. (once again, has no bearing on the quality of the actual product) As for the "better resale value of the Colt" argument, it's a myth. I recently sold a Spikes upper for 40$ less than what I paid for it. It sold within 24 hours of listing it, and I had multiple serious inquiries, so chances are I could have gotten more. Regardless, I don't believe that resale value should be a significant factor (notice I did NOT say it shouldn't be a factor at all) in choosing an AR. This guy has drank a triple dose of spikes kool aid |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:16:13 AM EDT
[#18]
While I do not own any Colt Ar's I do own 6 or so Colts. Each one of them is worth at least 3 times what I paid for them and they have all been bought in the last 20 years. That does not indicate that Colt Ar's will do the same thing but it would certainly suggest that the name plays a factor in resale value. Colts are the only guns in my collection that I can say that about. Yes the S&W's have appreciated somewhat but nowhere near the rate that Colts have.
While I am certain that Spikes makes good product I would just as certainly buy Colt for a $200 difference. If I was poor and struggling but just HAD to have an AR maybe I would consider a Spikes but then a lower cost model or build would probably come into play. I don't have any AR's that were bought factory assembled and most likely won't, but if I did, it would be Colt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:16:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:36:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Neither. A 16" M4 barrel is as pointless as a pitcher with no arms. Get a spikes middy. If the apocalypse hits and you somehow need a "non standard midlength gas tube that everyone but colt now uses", you can have one of mine. I agree. I've had 2 different M4 profiles barrels that put 10 shots of XM193 into 2 inches at 100 yards. What a worthless, sorry excuse for a barrel  Now that Gov't profile, that's a logical barrel profile!  Oh wait, perhaps the current arf.com mentality is that the only barrel worth owning is a CHF Lightweight...  I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that carbine gas has been working in 16 inch barreled carbines for 45 years now. Seems that Colt makes their CAR gas guns run just fine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:37:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Resale is the only substantive reason. If you're going to shoot it & not sell it, get whatever floats your boat. $200 is a lot to some people, not so much to others.
A more interesting hypothetical would be to offer both rifles, at those prices, with no roll marks or brand marks of any kind & see which one people pony up for. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:43:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. By "parts" you mean a middy gas tube and a handguard? With the popularity of mid-length there are tons of options to pick from. The fact that an M4 barrel doesn't hinder you isn't exactly an endorsement either, it's still unnecessary weight that has no practical benefit. While the weight over a LW profile may be "unnecessary" it could be argued that the weight at the muzzle may help with muzzle climb. Some may say this is a negligible difference, and I would agree. I would also assert that a mid length gas system gives a negligible advantage in recoil reduction. Tuning a whole system together with buffers, gas system lengths, gas port size, adjustable gas block, etc. can make a rifle function a bit smoother, but carbine vs. mid-length is not significant enough on it's own in my opinion. As you well know (I see your posts scolding others for not training, or worrying about items that don't enhance function like engraved dust covers), it is training and muscle memory that enhances skill, and not minor equipment differences. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:44:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Had a Colt, in the military great AR. My first AR when I retired was a Armalite, shot it right out of the box.That was years ago,and still no problems. Haven't replaced anything as of the present. I wouldn't buy either one. It's a matter of what do I feel more comfortable with,or more confident in a particular situation. That would be my Armalite. Since than I have built several different types of AR's using Spikes LPK. Have not used any thing from Colt. I do use a lot of parts from Bravo Co.
RJ |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:47:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Neither. A 16" M4 barrel is as pointless as a pitcher with no arms. Get a spikes middy. If the apocalypse hits and you somehow need a "non standard midlength gas tube that everyone but colt now uses", you can have one of mine. I agree. I've had 2 different M4 profiles barrels that put 10 shots of XM193 into 2 inches at 100 yards. What a worthless, sorry excuse for a barrel Now that Gov't profile, that's a logical barrel profile! Oh wait, perhaps the current arf.com mentality is that the only barrel worth owning is a CHF Lightweight... I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that carbine gas has been working in 16 inch barreled carbines for 45 years now. Seems that Colt makes their CAR gas guns run just fine. I suppose people who look to be offended always end up being offended. Nobody said that carbine length gas M4 barrels are bad, just that there's really no point to them in the civilian market at this time. Just because it is something that works doesn't mean it's ideal and it certainly doesn't mean there are better options out there now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:49:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Of course I agree that training and practice is the key, but for the purpose of the discussion here which is just based on equipment choice I don't see the point in selecting a carbine length gas system rifle with a 16" M4 profile barrel when there are so many options out there. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. By "parts" you mean a middy gas tube and a handguard? With the popularity of mid-length there are tons of options to pick from. The fact that an M4 barrel doesn't hinder you isn't exactly an endorsement either, it's still unnecessary weight that has no practical benefit. While the weight over a LW profile may be "unnecessary" it could be argued that the weight at the muzzle may help with muzzle climb. Some may say this is a negligible difference, and I would agree. I would also assert that a mid length gas system gives a negligible advantage in recoil reduction. Tuning a whole system together with buffers, gas system lengths, gas port size, adjustable gas block, etc. can make a rifle function a bit smoother, but carbine vs. mid-length is not significant enough on it's own in my opinion. As you well know (I see your posts scolding others for not training, or worrying about items that don't enhance function like engraved dust covers), it is training and muscle memory that enhances skill, and not minor equipment differences. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:51:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. I was just going to go with the "not sure if serious" gif...your response is much more PC. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of carbines in the system...it will be decades before middies ever overtake the carbine, if ever. Sure, middies may be subjectively better, but how much better? There are no quantitative comparisons that I am aware of and, in acknowledgment of the fact that middies should be better, that advantage is likely to be very slight. As for wanting to carry a weapon like people in the Army carry, I am a people in the Army and would like to train on my own time with a weapon that replicates my issue weapon. But that's just me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:52:18 AM EDT
[#27]
14.5" is my favorite. And I personally like the M4 profile. Is it needed? No. I just like the look and the balance of a 14.5"
And I voted Colt for the battle proven record. Dave N |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:53:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Neither. A 16" M4 barrel is as pointless as a pitcher with no arms. Get a spikes middy. If the apocalypse hits and you somehow need a "non standard midlength gas tube that everyone but colt now uses", you can have one of mine. The average shooter won't have a clue what the difference between a carbine and mid length gas tube is. Chances are they will never need to, but if they do, they will walk into a gun shop for help. You can guess how that will play out. Not everyone is an AR15 enthusiast, that spends a large portion of their free time learning about the nuances and differences of the weapon like we do. The statement in bold is absurd hyperbole, and the difference between a 16" carbine and a 16" mid-length is hardly noticeable without other enhancements. In theory, it is easier on parts, and has a softer recoil. But that is like saying the acceleration in a 4.2 second 0-60mph car is MUCH better than a 4.35 second car. Yes, there is a difference, but can you feel it? Probably not. Yes I have owned both, from Colt, Sabre, BCM, DD, Noveske, Spikes, DSA, RRA, Bushmaster etc. A muzzle device makes a much larger quantifiable difference with all other parts being equal. Add the right buffer, and a carbine with the proper size gas port and a decent muzzle device can shoot very nicely.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 10:59:34 AM EDT
[#29]
I'll just throw this out there:
While I'm a big fan of Spike's, for someone who knows next to nothing about firearms the Colt is probably a better choice simply for brand name recognition for the recipient of the weapon. Think about it. The non-gun guy goes to show his weapon to another non-gun guy, which is likely, and pulls out his Colt. Observer says "oh, a Colt". If he pulls out a Spike's, now what? Neither one knows or appreciates the difference. As a further example, we'd all agree that something like a Noveske or KAC is a much better weapon (albeit outside of the price range; this is just an example) but the non-guy won't appreciate the difference. Also, remember the spirit behind a gift: it's what the recipient wants/knows/appreciates, not what YOU would like most. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:04:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Colt. Why? Because I've since been Very impressed with their quality during my 6921/frankenbuild, and because they have been proven time and time again. Honestly, look at how long these guys have been "#1". I think that's a testament in itself, and I would rather Spend and extra $200 over the Spikes for it.
Now, I like Spikes, and if on a budget I'd say they would be the obvious choice considering their excellent quality for the price. But, If you can swing for the Colt, go for it. I'm trying to sell off one of my other ARs to help fund buying one of the Colt LE6920s for $999. Then, I'd have a true 6291 if I swapped uppers :) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:04:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Quoted: Of course I agree that training and practice is the key, but for the purpose of the discussion here which is just based on equipment choice I don't see the point in selecting a carbine length gas system rifle with a 16" M4 profile barrel when there are so many options out there. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. By "parts" you mean a middy gas tube and a handguard? With the popularity of mid-length there are tons of options to pick from. The fact that an M4 barrel doesn't hinder you isn't exactly an endorsement either, it's still unnecessary weight that has no practical benefit. While the weight over a LW profile may be "unnecessary" it could be argued that the weight at the muzzle may help with muzzle climb. Some may say this is a negligible difference, and I would agree. I would also assert that a mid length gas system gives a negligible advantage in recoil reduction. Tuning a whole system together with buffers, gas system lengths, gas port size, adjustable gas block, etc. can make a rifle function a bit smoother, but carbine vs. mid-length is not significant enough on it's own in my opinion. As you well know (I see your posts scolding others for not training, or worrying about items that don't enhance function like engraved dust covers), it is training and muscle memory that enhances skill, and not minor equipment differences. Let me try it this way: I am in the market for a refrigerator. I am considering a Kenmore for $1000, or a newer brand called Mikes for $800. I know and trust Kenmore, they have been around for decades and have a solid reputation. However, Mikes has been making some very nice appliances for a couple of years and offers a model with a more efficient compressor. This newer compressor is used by a few other companies, but not Kenmore. In theory the new compressor will keep the fridge running longer, and also cools the contents a bit better. Also Mikes has some branding that is a little garish and placed on a few different places on the fridge. This doesn't affect function at all, but it's just somewhat obnoxious. The problem is that the newer compressor, while on paper is better, is not THAT much better, and there is no real long term evidence to support it's superiority. I would buy the Kenmore in this case. If I had fifteen restaurants, and needed to maximize my dollar, I might give the Mikes a chance at a few of the restaurants. But since I am just using this for my own home, and I need one and only one appliance that I can rely on for service and parts for years to come, it's Kenmore all the way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:06:35 AM EDT
[#32]
I would rather have a Spikes mid-length then any Colt carbine model. Now, having said that, I have always thought a mid-length 6940 with ambi controls would kill. I use BCM/LMT, I shoot with people who use DD, Spikes, Colt, and all of these brands do really well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:11:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Of course I agree that training and practice is the key, but for the purpose of the discussion here which is just based on equipment choice I don't see the point in selecting a carbine length gas system rifle with a 16" M4 profile barrel when there are so many options out there.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. By "parts" you mean a middy gas tube and a handguard? With the popularity of mid-length there are tons of options to pick from. The fact that an M4 barrel doesn't hinder you isn't exactly an endorsement either, it's still unnecessary weight that has no practical benefit. While the weight over a LW profile may be "unnecessary" it could be argued that the weight at the muzzle may help with muzzle climb. Some may say this is a negligible difference, and I would agree. I would also assert that a mid length gas system gives a negligible advantage in recoil reduction. Tuning a whole system together with buffers, gas system lengths, gas port size, adjustable gas block, etc. can make a rifle function a bit smoother, but carbine vs. mid-length is not significant enough on it's own in my opinion. As you well know (I see your posts scolding others for not training, or worrying about items that don't enhance function like engraved dust covers), it is training and muscle memory that enhances skill, and not minor equipment differences. Let me try it this way: I am in the market for a refrigerator. I am considering a Kenmore for $1000, or a newer brand called Mikes for $800. I know and trust Kenmore, they have been around for decades and have a solid reputation. However, Mikes has been making some very nice appliances for a couple of years and offers a model with a more efficient compressor. This newer compressor is used by a few other companies, but not Kenmore. In theory the new compressor will keep the fridge running longer, and also cools the contents a bit better. Also Mikes has some branding that is a little garish and placed on a few different places on the fridge. This doesn't affect function at all, but it's just somewhat obnoxious. The problem is that the newer compressor, while on paper is better, is not THAT much better, and there is no real long term evidence to support it's superiority. I would buy the Kenmore in this case. If I had fifteen restaurants, and needed to maximize my dollar, I might give the Mikes a chance at a few of the restaurants. But since I am just using this for my own home, and I need one and only one appliance that I can rely on for service and parts for years to come, it's Kenmore all the way. Excellent analogy my friend. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:14:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. I was just going to go with the "not sure if serious" gif...your response is much more PC. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of carbines in the system...it will be decades before middies ever overtake the carbine, if ever. Sure, middies may be subjectively better, but how much better? There are no quantitative comparisons that I am aware of and, in acknowledgment of the fact that middies should be better, that advantage is likely to be very slight. As for wanting to carry a weapon like people in the Army carry, I am a people in the Army and would like to train on my own time with a weapon that replicates my issue weapon. But that's just me. I can assure you I am serious. Whether middies overtake carbines is irrelevant. The point that you ignore is that there are options out there that are better. It doesnt' matter if they're 1% better or 100% better, they are still better. A middy (or hell even a carbine without a FSB that can run a longer rail, or even one with a FSB and a rail that extends around it) will give you more options for placement of accessories as well as allow you to get your support hand out further on the rifle. Again, the question here was between specific choices or "neither." If the "neither" option allows you to get a rifle with an advantage, no matter how slight it may be it is still a better choice. As for practicing with a rifle similar to the one you carry, what specific characteristic are you looking for to replicate? Does having an M4 profile on your barrel materially impact how you would train with your personal rifle? You're aware that the Colt and Spike's have 16" barrels, right? Does it bother you that the barrel length doesn't replicate your issue weapon? I hope you see my point here.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:17:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Of course I agree that training and practice is the key, but for the purpose of the discussion here which is just based on equipment choice I don't see the point in selecting a carbine length gas system rifle with a 16" M4 profile barrel when there are so many options out there. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I vote neither. Times change, a carbine length gas system and an M4 profile barrel have no advantages over the other choices we have available now. Unless the buyer is the kind of person who just wants to have a gun that looks like what they see people in the Army carry around they can do better. I disagree, parts will be easier to fine for a carbine system than for a mid-length system. An M4 profile barrel is useless to me, but for what I use it for, it doesn't hurt either. Colt has a long, well deserved reputation, will retain it's value, and will be around for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with Spike's, but they have no government contracts, history, or the same type of recognition. If I were only going to have one rifle, and had the choice between these two, I would choose Colt. However, I don't just have one rifle, so I say get both. By "parts" you mean a middy gas tube and a handguard? With the popularity of mid-length there are tons of options to pick from. The fact that an M4 barrel doesn't hinder you isn't exactly an endorsement either, it's still unnecessary weight that has no practical benefit. While the weight over a LW profile may be "unnecessary" it could be argued that the weight at the muzzle may help with muzzle climb. Some may say this is a negligible difference, and I would agree. I would also assert that a mid length gas system gives a negligible advantage in recoil reduction. Tuning a whole system together with buffers, gas system lengths, gas port size, adjustable gas block, etc. can make a rifle function a bit smoother, but carbine vs. mid-length is not significant enough on it's own in my opinion. As you well know (I see your posts scolding others for not training, or worrying about items that don't enhance function like engraved dust covers), it is training and muscle memory that enhances skill, and not minor equipment differences. Let me try it this way: I am in the market for a refrigerator. I am considering a Kenmore for $1000, or a newer brand called Mikes for $800. I know and trust Kenmore, they have been around for decades and have a solid reputation. However, Mikes has been making some very nice appliances for a couple of years and offers a model with a more efficient compressor. This newer compressor is used by a few other companies, but not Kenmore. In theory the new compressor will keep the fridge running longer, and also cools the contents a bit better. Also Mikes has some branding that is a little garish and placed on a few different places on the fridge. This doesn't affect function at all, but it's just somewhat obnoxious. The problem is that the newer compressor, while on paper is better, is not THAT much better, and there is no real long term evidence to support it's superiority. I would buy the Kenmore in this case. If I had fifteen restaurants, and needed to maximize my dollar, I might give the Mikes a chance at a few of the restaurants. But since I am just using this for my own home, and I need one and only one appliance that I can rely on for service and parts for years to come, it's Kenmore all the way. I understand your point, but my vote was for Neither. I'm not advocating buying the Spike's at all. To include my point in your analogy (which is well though out) you'd have another refrigerator option at perhaps the same price as the Kenmore, but it would use more modern parts. Perhaps it would keep a more constant temperature and use less electricity compared to the Kenmore. That's the refrigerator I'm arguing for. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:19:44 AM EDT
[#36]
I personally trust Colt more than I trust Spikes. But Spikes has gotten a whole lot better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:22:52 AM EDT
[#37]
I'd take the Colt if the price difference was that low. Why? Reputation. Track Record. History. 20 years from now, Colt will still be around. Spikes? Maybe, but maybe not. Don't get me wrong... I think Spikes offers a helluva rifle for the price.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:30:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Great analogy, azoutdoorsman.
I like how this thread is going, some great opinions. However, I don't see any functional reason to choose the Colt over the Spike's. The main reasoning here seems to be: 1)brand recognition/brand equity/resale value 2)Spike's is relatively new. KILLERB6, if we're buying a rifle simply for bragging rights let's just pony up (excuse the pun) and buy a Magpul/Noveske for the AR-enthusiasts to drool over and a Colt for joe-schmoe to drool over. I don't care if someone is ignorant of the extents of the AR market. ETA: I see 46 votes for Colt up there but I surely don't see 46 individuals' reasoning for voting that way... come on guys, chime in! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:38:21 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I'll just throw this out there: While I'm a big fan of Spike's, for someone who knows next to nothing about firearms the Colt is probably a better choice simply for brand name recognition for the recipient of the weapon. Think about it. The non-gun guy goes to show his weapon to another non-gun guy, which is likely, and pulls out his Colt. Observer says "oh, a Colt". If he pulls out a Spike's, now what? Neither one knows or appreciates the difference. As a further example, we'd all agree that something like a Noveske or KAC is a much better weapon (albeit outside of the price range; this is just an example) but the non-guy won't appreciate the difference. Also, remember the spirit behind a gift: it's what the recipient wants/knows/appreciates, not what YOU would like most. Now, if we want to talk about the "not sure if serious" gif... Are you really advocating buying the Colt so that people who don't know anything about ARs will recognize the name? How does that do anyone any good? I don't think that buying a more expensive gun just to appeal to the lowest common denominator is really a good way to go. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:40:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Great analogy, azoutdoorsman. I like how this thread is going, some great opinions. However, I don't see any functional reason to choose the Colt over the Spike's. Because there's not one. It's an open source weapon. A properly machined upper is a properly machined upper, and it doesn't matter even one little bit if it was done by KAC, Colt, Spikes or Fred in his garage. If Armalite never sold the plans and had the military contract we'd all be spending $200 more for a prancing lion instead of a prancing pony. If you want to sell it one day, or don't want to put up with the "I've never heard of that brand" at the gun range, buy the Colt. Again, if you erased the roll marks on that Colt not too many people, if any, would spend $1000 on it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:43:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. The Pony has been the gold standard for decades. 1. resale 2. history 3. other than this site no one i know gets an erection over spikes. People Know what Colt is. 4. ugly roll mark on a spikes (my opinion) Yeah functionally the spikes will preform as well as the Colt but so will a Stag, RRA, S&W, bushmaster, etc........ If you want a good functional rifle get a spikes, If you want an ICON in the gun culture get a Colt |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:45:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. The Pony has been the gold standard for decades. 1. resale 2. history 3. other than this site no one i know gets an erection over spikes. People Know what Colt is. 4. ugly roll mark on a spikes (my opinion) Yeah functionally the spikes will preform as well as the Colt but so will a Stag, RRA, S&W, bushmaster, etc........ If you want a good functional rifle get a spikes, If you want an ICON in the gun culture get a Colt None of your reasons are even remotely related to how the rifle actually performs. It seems that the Colt is the rifle for you afterall! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:50:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. The Pony has been the gold standard for decades. 1. resale 2. history 3. other than this site no one i know gets an erection over spikes. People Know what Colt is. 4. ugly roll mark on a spikes (my opinion) Yeah functionally the spikes will preform as well as the Colt but so will a Stag, RRA, S&W, bushmaster, etc........ If you want a good functional rifle get a spikes, If you want an ICON in the gun culture get a Colt None of your reasons are even remotely related to how the rifle actually performs. It seems that the Colt is the rifle for you afterall! Thank you.
I'm going to disagree with you Springer since those "budget" brands' specs fall short. I just want to say again, I have nothing whatsoever against Colt. I do not own one, nor do I plan on it unless I find a ridiculous deal on one. I'm more about function than form but not to the absolute extent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:52:52 AM EDT
[#44]
I dont even know why middie was mentioned this is a colt vs spikez thread
And in this thread ive seen lots of get the colt for the name which imo rollmarks and a name dont justify $200 |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:55:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
I dont even know why middie was mentioned this is a colt vs spikez thread And in this thread ive seen lots of get the colt for the name which imo rollmarks and a name dont justify $200 +1 on both accounts. Obviously the roll mark and name ARE worth $200 to some guys... more than I would've guessed before this thread and the linked thread in my OP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:56:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. The Pony has been the gold standard for decades. 1. resale 2. history 3. other than this site no one i know gets an erection over spikes. People Know what Colt is. 4. ugly roll mark on a spikes (my opinion) Yeah functionally the spikes will preform as well as the Colt but so will a Stag, RRA, S&W, bushmaster, etc........ If you want a good functional rifle get a spikes, If you want an ICON in the gun culture get a Colt None of your reasons are even remotely related to how the rifle actually performs. It seems that the Colt is the rifle for you afterall! Thank youI would take a Colt for $200 difference over a spikes. I don't understand why you choose to critique someone when they list 4 reasons why they would buy a colt over a spikes Personally to me a spikes is no different than a bushmaster. It like Buy a chevy (spikes) or a GMC (Colt) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 11:58:46 AM EDT
[#47]
I would buy a Spike's for $1k over a Colt for $800.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 12:01:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. The Pony has been the gold standard for decades. 1. resale 2. history 3. other than this site no one i know gets an erection over spikes. People Know what Colt is. 4. ugly roll mark on a spikes (my opinion) Yeah functionally the spikes will preform as well as the Colt but so will a Stag, RRA, S&W, bushmaster, etc........ If you want a good functional rifle get a spikes, If you want an ICON in the gun culture get a Colt None of your reasons are even remotely related to how the rifle actually performs. It seems that the Colt is the rifle for you afterall! Thank youI would take a Colt for $200 difference over a spikes. I don't understand why you choose to critique someone when they list 4 reasons why they would buy a colt over a spikes Personally to me a spikes is no different than a bushmaster. It like Buy a chevy (spikes) or a GMC (Colt) I don't even like Spike's, but that statement is stupid. At least you've let us know in a clear manner that you're ignorant on this issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 12:04:13 PM EDT
[#49]
I have bought a good number of Colts and they have always worked for me without an issue.
Do they make an occasional lemon? Sure- they probably do. I have never had one, though. I don't know diddly about Spike's. If I was going to buy another 5.56 AR I would probably buy a Colt. The price differential isn't enough for me to NOT buy a Colt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2011 12:05:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt hands down no questions asked Please provide your rational. The Pony has been the gold standard for decades. 1. resale 2. history 3. other than this site no one i know gets an erection over spikes. People Know what Colt is. 4. ugly roll mark on a spikes (my opinion) Yeah functionally the spikes will preform as well as the Colt but so will a Stag, RRA, S&W, bushmaster, etc........ If you want a good functional rifle get a spikes, If you want an ICON in the gun culture get a Colt None of your reasons are even remotely related to how the rifle actually performs. It seems that the Colt is the rifle for you afterall! Thank youI would take a Colt for $200 difference over a spikes. I don't understand why you choose to critique someone when they list 4 reasons why they would buy a colt over a spikes Personally to me a spikes is no different than a bushmaster. It like Buy a chevy (spikes) or a GMC (Colt) I don't even like Spike's, but that statement is stupid. At least you've let us know in a clear manner that you're ignorant on this issue. Again, +1. There is no arguing that a Spike's is superior to a Bushmaster, all you have to do is look at the specs. Sure, BM makes great rifles too, but a Spike's is in deed better. If you're purely talking about how you value the brand, OK, that's a different matter and the source of your Colt preference. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
