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Link Posted: 12/31/2004 6:28:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Well, this thread went to "H-E-double hockey sticks" in a jiffy!  First Bigbore posts a pic of an extremely rare occurance (one that I've never seen before) and some misconceptions gets thrown around.  Then we have a 3 well-opined mods (whose experiences are from hard-won real life trials) and a .mil ordinance guy tries to clear it up.  Then bad names are being called by a non-team member with under 6 months tenure at ARFCOM.

I predict a lock (and possibly a ban ) soon...IBTL

Oh, and I'm with Lumpy, Troy and WpnsMan on this one: go chrome or go home
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 8:51:07 PM EDT
[#2]
The stupidity on this site has caused me to sell my only AR.  I bought a Stoeger double barrel 12ga and a Marlin 1895 .45-70.  The Stoeger has chrome barrels.
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 2:31:58 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:The way some people here shoot, the high heat would ruin the stainless in short order.  Stainless does not take high heat well.  That is why you do not see it on military weapons.


Chrome flakes off quicker when FA usage occurs.  SS does not flake, but does not release heat as quickly, though not in short order.  I have shot FA in 20", 16", 7.5", 6.5" SS barrels - many thousands of rounds and they work fine and do not show the"ruin"ing in short order.  In fact, these are usually shot with suppressors on them, which increases the ehat quit a bit.

mark
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 7:20:16 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Respect is something that is earned, not guaranteed because of a quasi position. I am almost certain that I will pay for this!

Quoted:

Quoted:
Were you last in the critical thinking line?




I would think you would be well advised to show a little more respect to a STAFF MEMBER.




Gotta agree with you Combat. Troy is, however, very knowledgeable on the subject of AR's in general.

I've owned both chromed and unchromed barrels. After some real world experience, I now use only chromed barrels on my AR's. They are better by far. Recently I fired a 1 7/8" three shot group @ 300 yards with my Bushy chromed Gov't profile. How's that for inaccurate?
Link Posted: 1/1/2005 8:15:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 7:23:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:48:16 PM EDT
[#7]
+1

And everyone else should refer to what's written above whenever the "chrome-lined" or not issue comes up.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:57:46 PM EDT
[#8]
I have seen chrome bores fail in Izhmash AK-47's, AKM's, and Colt's M16A1 rifles.  In all the cases I have seen, it appears that the failures were due to gross negligence on the part of the end user.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:21:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Can't everyone play nice???

A improperly maintained chrome bbl will rust as well.. Hell, ever try to keep the chrome on your car rust free?? Chrome is not a absolute in bore protection, it just helps...
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:38:48 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
I have seen a unchromed barrel lightly rust overnight in a single night in southwest Virgina due to summer humidity.  It just takes one neglegent moment, not a month in a jungle.



Maintain your weapon. Problem solved.  No chrome lining needed. Clearly from the above picture, chrome lining isnt a total solution or replacement to proper weapon care.


Chrome lining is a must for a military weapons and as much as people swear up and down they take their weapons to the limit, it's just like a little kid playing soldier, because they arent. Anyone that has ever seen an M16 will know what I mean. They are a mess, shot to hell, big patches of worn off finish, scrapes, dragged though mud and sand and water and snow and sleet and freezing rain.  As much as people pretend that shooting in the sandbox, camping and hunting are close to military action, it sure as hell isnt.  Ask any solider who has actually been in combat and they will tell you how close Camp Perry really is to war while laughing at you

Clearly chrome lining isnt a big deal for a non-combat weapon or else the DEA wouldnt have went with RRA for their contract. LEO and civilians just dont come close to what the military puts weapons though so chrome lining isnt as big of a factor.

Is chrome lining a nice extra? Yes. The end all be feature that will make or break an AR? Nope

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:04:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Jeez Loiuse I have never heard so much BS in all my life especially the chome-moly, stainless over chrome plating, and my daddy once told me stories!

Hard chrome  is NOT cheap decorative chrome!
Hard chrome resists corrosion TWICE as long as stainless steel!
Hard chrome eases cleaning and increases reliability from reduced friction!

You only hanve to use the three layer method on ALUMIUNM not steel which allows HARD CHROME which will not peel if propperly applied.  Only an IDIOT would put decorative chrome on the working parts of a rifle.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:08:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:13:04 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
Ok, the dirt on chrome plating.... A lot of this comes from my (late) father who worked for years doing various metal treatments for the aviation industry, including military and Concorde.

He told me that chrome will never adhere fully to steel - witness the chrome plated what-nots on 1950's and 1960's cars which invariably peeled and rusted within  a very short time.

To make a successfull chrome job the steel must first be nickel plated, and then chrome on top of the nickel. Its more time consuming and expensive, but the only way to get a reliable chrome electro-plate which will stand up to mechanical stress and exposure to the outside world.

If you don't believe me, go buy a set of chromed wheels for your car (or talk to someone who has bought some) and see how long they last before starting to flake, peel, blister or otherwise rot.

So why does the military chrome plate their barrels and not go for a full nickel/chrome job?

Why chrome at all should be obvious - military rifles will be exposed to all sorts of mis-treatment, including getting water (and worse) in the barrel and no opportunity to clean/dry for days or weeks on end. This WILL destroy barrels - ask any vetran of early Vietnam. A lot of this was blamed on ammo loads, but much was just plain neglect - not in the negative sense, just neglect because they didn't know better, and even if they did, there was little time/opportuity to clean and oil weapons.

They don't use nickel/chrome because (a) its expensive, (b) it requires a much thicker plating in total than just a chrome job, so the bore would need to be oversise to begin with to compensate, and (c) its a complex plating job to get that much plating done EVENLY as would be required in this application.

A chrome only plating is MUCH better than nothing. But like chrome wheels it WILL fail. But the failure will take MUCH longer than it would take if you (for example) got sea-water in your barrel in a hot humid climate and didn't/couldn't clean within a few minutes.

Do YOU need chrome plating?

IMHO, ONLY if you don't/can't clean after each use and definately after exposure to the elements where water (or worse) may have entered the barrel. For general civilian use its a waste of money if you just adopt a reasonable cleaning regime and use CLP or equivalent to coat the bore when in storage.

If its a SHTF gun, and you expect to use it under those conditions - go ahead and get a chromed barrel. If its for target/plinking/home defense use, don't go out of your way looking for a chromed barrel. For target use, avoid it.

Just my 2c worth...



If you had said ALUMINUM instead of STEEL you would be correct but your whole post is pure BS because you said steel.  All your inferences of cost, thickness etc as why the totally inferior decorative chrome techniques are not used are all way off base and your giving horribly inaccurate information and representing it as expert knowledge passed on from your father who worked in the field.  Shame on you sir.  I have had several hard chromed firearms and they are MATTE GREY.  Thats why they dont use it on bumpers or rims.  The hand polishing required for shined hard chrome to the base metal is astronomically expensive.  The three layer process is a nickle plating over copper which is cheaper with chrome added to turn the yellow colored nickle back to a silvery color.  Industrial hard chrome is much more chrome than that.  It is harder than that.  It is more corrosion resistant than that. It wont peel or flake like that.

Also why avoid it for target use?  My M4 barrel is MOA capable and is not even a match barrel.  THe FN SPR is nothing but an M240 machinegun barrel blank and its .5MOA capable.  If someone made a hard chromed HIGH QUALITY MATCH BARREL it could be made to do sub .5 MOA.  Just because a barrel is not hard chromed does not make it MORE accurate... its only than most chrome lined barrels are not match barrels.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:14:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:17:35 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:



Given that this list represents almost all modern military small-arms, do you think there might actually be a REASON that these weapons are chrome-lined? -Troy



Yes, there is certainly a reason.  And it DOES NOT apply to civilians and their rifles 99.99999999% of the time.

Were you last in the critical thinking line?





Where's the follow up speech about civillians not needing ARs in general?

Why not get a piece of shit running on USA mags? Sure it's a hassle with all the jams and hiccups, but why should civillians fucking worry about that? think of all the money you could save!

If your rifle isn't chrome lined, it is inferior to one that is chrome lined (all other things being equal & disregarding match barrels). Need is a fucking stupid argument here, since it is likely 99.82% of us will never NEED an AR or even a firearm for self defense. seeing how I'm, one of those 0.18 percenters (as of 2 years ago), I'll take mine chromed, thank you.
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