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Posted: 9/13/2023 9:07:48 AM EST
Beretta's new AR-ish rifle:

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/beretta-unveils-its-new-assault-rifle-platform
fnh
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 9:20:35 AM EST
[#1]
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 9:43:42 AM EST
[#2]
Looks a lot like a MCX
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 9:47:25 AM EST
[#3]
I can't see a good reason for that rail to sit so far above the bore and piston rod/spring, unless they're using an AR18 style bolt carrier and need the room in the receiver.

Otherwise it actually looks good.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 9:47:49 AM EST
[#4]
Beretta: Hey Sig, can I copy your homework?

Sig: Sure, just make it look a bit different so teacher won't find out or we'll get in trouble.

Beretta: K, no prob bob.

Sponge Bob narrator: two weeks later:

Sig: Bro, wtf.

Beretta:
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 9:52:03 AM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I can't see a good reason for that rail to sit so far above the bore and piston rod/spring, unless they're using an AR18 style bolt carrier and need the room in the receiver.

Otherwise it actually looks good.
View Quote


Wondering the same thing and if folding stock would be an option.  Anyone know if the buffer tube is functional or just there to use the wide array of AR stocks?
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 10:13:58 AM EST
[#6]
So basically, an AR15/M16 variant. The platform that rejects obsolescence like water rejects oil.




Link Posted: 9/13/2023 10:14:20 AM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I can't see a good reason for that rail to sit so far above the bore and piston rod/spring, unless they're using an AR18 style bolt carrier and need the room in the receiver.

Otherwise it actually looks good.
View Quote

they claim it caused a dramatic decrease in muzzle rise. Bore axis on pistols translated to rifles. It’s going to get pretty crazy with a modern NVG set up.

The recoil assembly is all in the upper so not sure why they wouldn’t put a folding stock on it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 10:42:52 AM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Beretta: Hey Sig, can I copy your homework?

Sig: Sure, just make it look a bit different so teacher won't find out or we'll get in trouble.

Beretta: K, no prob bob.

Sponge Bob narrator: two weeks later:

Sig: Bro, wtf.

Beretta:
View Quote

i was gonna say that it seemed an awful lot like a sig
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 10:43:34 AM EST
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

they claim it caused a dramatic decrease in muzzle rise. Bore axis on pistols translated to rifles. It’s going to get pretty crazy with a modern NVG set up.

The recoil assembly is all in the upper so not sure why they wouldn’t put a folding stock on it.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see a good reason for that rail to sit so far above the bore and piston rod/spring, unless they're using an AR18 style bolt carrier and need the room in the receiver.

Otherwise it actually looks good.

they claim it caused a dramatic decrease in muzzle rise. Bore axis on pistols translated to rifles. It’s going to get pretty crazy with a modern NVG set up.

The recoil assembly is all in the upper so not sure why they wouldn’t put a folding stock on it.


Also, you won't need risers on your mounts, so seems beneficial even without the need for it internally.

Link Posted: 9/13/2023 11:01:49 AM EST
[#10]
According to the timeline, in 2024 Beretta will initiate low rate initial production deliveries and will start the design of the other family members, as the 5.56×45 mm assault rifle seen in Gardone Valtrompia is only the starting point of a family that will see the NARP be developed in many versions and variants, with six different length of barrels, 7 inch (178 mm), 11.5 inch (292 mm), 14.5 inch (368 mm), 16 inch (406 mm), 18 inch (457 mm) and finally 20 inch (508). The 7-inch barrel will be fitted only to the Close Quarter Battle (CQB) rifle using the 7.62×35 mm or .300 Blackout subsonic ammunition. The NATO 5.56×45 mm NARP family will consist of four versions, CQB (11.5 inch), Assault Rifle, AR in short (14,5 inch), Infantry Automatic Rifle (16 inch), and Squad Designated Marksman Rifle or S-DMR (18 inch). The calibre declined in the most numerous versions is the NATO 7.62×51 mm, with five different rifles; CQB (11. 5 inch), Battle Rifle (BR) with either 14.5 inch or 16 inch barrel, and Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) available with 18 inch or 20 inch barrels. Three versions will be available chambered for the 6.5 mm Creedmoor or the 6.8 mm round, respectively BR (16 inch), DMR (18 inch) and Semi Automatic Sniper Rifle (20 inch), for a grand total of 16 different versions.
View Quote

Good, give SIG a run for their money since they currently offer a (dated) 6.75", and but seem to stalling on the 7.75" upper.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 12:13:31 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Also, you won't need risers on your mounts, so seems beneficial even without the need for it internally.

View Quote

The stock to rail height looks to be the same as an AR so risers would still be necessary.

I’m surprised they didn’t add their own stock to this. I think that’s one of the biggest benefits to non AR buffer systems.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 1:08:40 PM EST
[#12]
So, another piston gun that still requires a buffer tube?  Am i seeing that right or does it indeed have a folding stock?


It's just a front heavy AR15.



Why?
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 1:21:15 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

they claim it caused a dramatic decrease in muzzle rise. Bore axis on pistols translated to rifles. It’s going to get pretty crazy with a modern NVG set up.

The recoil assembly is all in the upper so not sure why they wouldn’t put a folding stock on it.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't see a good reason for that rail to sit so far above the bore and piston rod/spring, unless they're using an AR18 style bolt carrier and need the room in the receiver.

Otherwise it actually looks good.

they claim it caused a dramatic decrease in muzzle rise. Bore axis on pistols translated to rifles. It’s going to get pretty crazy with a modern NVG set up.

The recoil assembly is all in the upper so not sure why they wouldn’t put a folding stock on it.


In the article they mention that they viewed a folding stock equipped version.


I'm curious about the trigger.  Beretta changed some of the geometry so I'm curious if AR15 triggers are compatible.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 1:29:53 PM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The stock to rail height looks to be the same as an AR so risers would still be necessary.

I’m surprised they didn’t add their own stock to this. I think that’s one of the biggest benefits to non AR buffer systems.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Also, you won't need risers on your mounts, so seems beneficial even without the need for it internally.


The stock to rail height looks to be the same as an AR so risers would still be necessary.

I’m surprised they didn’t add their own stock to this. I think that’s one of the biggest benefits to non AR buffer systems.


Yeah, you may be right. It doesn't look that tall at the end plate compared to the height over barrel.

Hopefully we'll see some imports, more AR rifles the better.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 3:34:05 PM EST
[#15]
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 3:35:13 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So basically, an AR15/M16 variant. The platform that rejects obsolescence like water rejects oil.

View Quote



Funny how the biggest companies in the world gave up trying to beat the AR platform…
And then started offering an AR variant.

HK, Sig, Sako, Beretta, Steyr, etc
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 3:36:45 PM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, another piston gun that still requires a buffer tube?  Am i seeing that right or does it indeed have a folding stock?


It's just a front heavy AR15.



Why?
View Quote


No it can take a proprietary folding stock.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 3:48:30 PM EST
[#18]
Meh.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 4:06:04 PM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No it can take a proprietary folding stock.
View Quote




Ah okay.

To me that is the only attractive feature of a piston gun so that's good.  Proprietary makes it less cool though.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 4:18:03 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




Ah okay.

To me that is the only attractive feature of a piston gun so that's good.  Proprietary makes it less cool though.
View Quote


Proprietary may not be the best term… it’s not a picatinny adapter.. But it seems like it may work on standard AR receivers
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 4:55:07 PM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So basically, an AR15/M16 variant. The platform that rejects obsolescence like water rejects oil.

View Quote



Think about aircraft engines. The designs persist for decades, essentially unchanged. Why? They work. No need to improve on “good enough”.

The next military small arms step forward will be caseless ammo, and that is already well developed.

It will stay there until MASERs and smart weapons cone on line, some time in the 2200s.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 4:56:53 PM EST
[#23]
Looks good, likely wouldn’t buy one.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 4:59:53 PM EST
[#24]
I like Beretta very much, but they sure waited long enough to bring this to market.  

With long term manufacturers are shuttering their doors, I can’t help but wonder if they aren’t too late to the party now.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 6:01:02 PM EST
[#25]
I like Beretta, though I'm not a fan of how they tend to completely drop all support for their existing firearms after bringing them to the commercial market.

This new rifle I likely wouldn't buy (not that I could living in WA) simply because I don't care much for Sig and I don't like the MCX... I certainly don't want a Beretta MCX knockoff.
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 6:15:56 PM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Beretta: Hey Sig, can I copy your homework?

Sig: Sure, just make it look a bit different so teacher won't find out or we'll get in trouble.

Beretta: K, no prob bob.

Sponge Bob narrator: two weeks later:

Sig: Bro, wtf.

Beretta:
View Quote



Welcome to the 70’s.  Beretta and Sig did that with the Beretta AR70 and the Sig 540
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 7:32:46 PM EST
[#27]
No thank you. Love my 92s though!
Link Posted: 9/13/2023 9:21:49 PM EST
[#28]
This is for the Euro military market. The truth is, everyone wants what the cool kids have…and that’s an AR ergos in either DI or piston. It’s hard to improve upon.

SAS, Delta, DevGru, GROM….they are all using M4s or 416s.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 12:14:17 AM EST
[#29]
I would rather they bring back the ARX than put out yet another AR platform.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 12:55:31 AM EST
[#30]
This is disappointing.  Beretta should’ve updated the ARX100.  

It could be a great rifle with some simple tweaks.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 4:54:13 AM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks a lot like a MCX
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks a lot like a MCX


Which looks like an AR.

Quoted:
This is disappointing.  Beretta should’ve updated the ARX100.  

It could be a great rifle with some simple tweaks.


I agree, but I'm sure those precision molds weren't cheap, & making updated molds would entail a lot of dev & testing costs compared to making an(other) milled 7000 series AR. They went the cheaper & easier route, sad but true. Also sad but true, I now know to steer away from Beretta moving forward.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 6:56:05 AM EST
[#32]
Some guys have gotten acceptable accuracy out of the ARX while others claim it's a 4-6 MOA gun. The quick-change barrel has been blamed for this, but who knows?
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 7:00:02 AM EST
[#33]
I'll buy it!
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 7:05:32 AM EST
[#34]
I wouldn't mind having one of these. Sad that Beretta has dropped the ARX100. A better factory trigger and a better, more compact upper receiver design would have made it a fantastic design.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 7:09:00 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wouldn't mind having one of these. Sad that Beretta has dropped the ARX100. A better factory trigger and a better, more compact upper receiver design would have made it a fantastic design.
View Quote


Yeah if they would have had omitted the QD barrel setup on the ARX ... it would have gained the accuracy it needed ... that said I never really had issues with its accuracy ... it shot ball ammo as good as my ARs ... ( I am waiting to hear that someones AR shoots sub MOA with ball though )
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 9:14:39 AM EST
[#36]
Well at least these companies are designing new products, if only Colt would have pushed forward with the M5 or Reminton with the R4 RGP they would not have gone bankrupt. Other than SIG USA, American arms are mostly stagnant.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 9:46:30 AM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah if they would have had omitted the QD barrel setup on the ARX ... it would have gained the accuracy it needed ... that said I never really had issues with its accuracy ... it shot ball ammo as good as my ARs ... ( I am waiting to hear that someones AR shoots sub MOA with ball though )
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wouldn't mind having one of these. Sad that Beretta has dropped the ARX100. A better factory trigger and a better, more compact upper receiver design would have made it a fantastic design.


Yeah if they would have had omitted the QD barrel setup on the ARX ... it would have gained the accuracy it needed ... that said I never really had issues with its accuracy ... it shot ball ammo as good as my ARs ... ( I am waiting to hear that someones AR shoots sub MOA with ball though )


Might be more than a couple factors at play that give the ARX-100 a hit or miss reputation for accuracy...

Could be partially due to the quick change barrel and the fit of the barrel extension to the receiver in the trunnion section of the receiver.

Could be partially due to the attachment method for the top rail.

Could be partially due to Beretta USA not knowing how to properly make barrels in their cold hammer forge machine.

Could be partially due to using AR height sights (or taller with the factory BUIS) on a rifle that is best suited to low mounted sights so that you can actually obtain a decent cheek weld instead of a chin weld.

Could be partially due to the heavy factory trigger.


Edit: The only issues that we can address as ARX owners is to upgrade to the Shooting Sight trigger and mount sights and optics as low as they can go.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 10:39:26 AM EST
[#38]
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 10:42:25 AM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Just saw that article. Lots more pics including folding stock

Link Posted: 9/14/2023 10:51:42 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Beretta: Hey Sig, can I copy your homework?

Sig: Sure, just make it look a bit different so teacher won't find out or we'll get in trouble.

Beretta: K, no prob bob.

Sponge Bob narrator: two weeks later:

Sig: Bro, wtf.

Beretta:
View Quote
That's the story (morning glory)!
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 10:56:45 AM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I like Beretta very much, but they sure waited long enough to bring this to market.  

With long term manufacturers are shuttering their doors, I can't help but wonder if they aren't too late to the party now.
View Quote
Very good question. May well be.

I am still pissed by the failure of the ARX (which I own), so I'll add that.

PS for those wondering, stock will be available as folding as well.
Buffer tube unnecessary, they're adding it to show compatibility with the AR15 platform.

Folding will have a proprietary plate - I foresee, if they catch enough market for it (all to be seen) adapters for different folding stocks.

Current design:




ETA shit beaten like a donkey under the sun
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 11:52:35 AM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So basically, an AR15/M16 variant. The platform that rejects obsolescence like water rejects oil.




View Quote



Link Posted: 9/14/2023 2:47:01 PM EST
[#43]
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 5:59:45 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nevah been done befoh!


The design is pretty mature, not a lot of room for innovation. Once someone figured out how to eliminate the buffer tube and allow a folding stock, it's really just refining the system.
View Quote


Are you saying that all roads have lead us to the Sig MCX? That's a pretty bleak outlook on the future.

I was really hoping for something that would be the modern day equivalent of going from the M1 Garand/M14 to the M16.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 6:11:58 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are you saying that all roads have lead us to the Sig MCX? That's a pretty bleak outlook on the future.

I was really hoping for something that would be the modern day equivalent of going from the M1 Garand/M14 to the M16.
View Quote


With SIGUSA's QC and CS? God please help us if that is the case.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 6:25:12 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


With SIGUSA's QC and CS? God please help us if that is the case.
View Quote
 that old joke comes to mind


"Heaven is where the cooks are French, the police are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Swiss"

Here we're starting to see terribly confusing things with Italians making American/German-inspired firearms.

Full disclosure, I AM Italian
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 8:26:32 PM EST
[#47]
From what I understand a lot of the European markets want a piston rifle because they don't like the hot gasses blowing into the shooters face. I do know Estonian had a requirement that their rifles not blow gas into the shooters face and LMT won that contract over the Sig MCX platform.
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 8:40:10 PM EST
[#48]
Link Posted: 9/14/2023 8:46:31 PM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is disappointing.  Beretta should’ve updated the ARX100.  

It could be a great rifle with some simple tweaks.
View Quote


Exactly.

It needed a thinned out, more ergonomic front end and a fix for the accuracy issues. Done.

This thing looks every bit as whack as a SIG MCX.
Link Posted: 9/15/2023 5:58:44 AM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

they claim it caused a dramatic decrease in muzzle rise.
View Quote



But the bore axis is still on the same plane as the stock centerline
There will be no benefit here
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