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Posted: 9/28/2005 3:19:33 PM EDT
[#1]
3 minutes with the Eotech on the firing line, I think you would find it's not just a "gadget for competitions and hunting".
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Posted: 9/28/2005 3:27:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Very, very pretty BUIS. Wanna trade for my GG&G?  |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 4:04:03 PM EDT
[#3]
That's a real nice set-up. What kind of mount is that? Also, can you still see/use the irons with the Eotech mounted? This is a good topic because while in a TRUE SHTF scenario, you want to keep things simple but you also want to be able to hit your target. An Eotech with either factory or BUIS is PERFECT because if (when) the electronics fail, the irons are right there to save your ass. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 5:26:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Oh, I do know that Eotech and other battery-powered sights and lasers are effective for both military/police use and non-military/non-police use. In context with the original post's question, I just think that civilians who are into guns and stuff and who have the money to afford these items do so because they want them and aren't always thinking about Patrick Swayze and "Red Dawn" when making purchasing decisions. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 5:55:10 AM EDT
[#5]
I'd be much more worried about running out of ammo.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 7:54:56 AM EDT
[#6]
When, in the year 2020, I run out of stored batteries (and those I find are expired), I shall give the mounting screw of my Eotech a full turn to the left and discard it. I will then remove the weapon-light from it's forward mount, and become "de-gadgetified." Happy now?
Until then, I'll run my rifles the way I want, and that's set up for low-light shooting. Of course, by the year 2020, if I still have ammo then it must not be all that bad. I could probably live without my gadgets. 
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Posted: 9/29/2005 8:22:59 AM EDT
[#7]
My 2 cent. I use an ACOG. I used the same ACOG in iraq. That thing got banged up smashed up and blown up and it is still ticking. Trijicon fixed it up to look nice again for me but that is another story. If I bang my weapon up good enough to destroy it I have destroyed my weapon also. I saw many things fail there. I saw boots fall apart. Machine guns get dropped and beet up, uniforms torn. Vehicles blowe apart. Rail systems break off of weapons along with pistol grips and lower receivers coming apart. One time I was even riding down the road and heard a clank clack clack and saw half my 249 stock banging on the side of the truck only heald on by the sling. Lets just say I saw many things destroyed. One thing I did never see was a Aimpoint, Eotech, or Acog ever break or get destroyed.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 8:42:43 AM EDT
[#8]
^^^ Wow. That's as good of an advertisement you'll see anywhere. Aimpoint, EOTech or ACOG, pick the one that works for you and it's probably going to last a long time. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 8:57:51 AM EDT
[#9]
When my Aimpoint battery goes dead, I can look through it (co-witness) or remove it. I would probably leave it on the upper. Can't loose it that way.
 Or I can use this one. No batteries needed.  |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 8:13:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Actually, living in south Mississippi, just a few weeks ago I couldnt find an open store to buy batteries. Once anything did open, they were all out of everything but some funky camera batteries. Sure Katrina was no SHTF scenario, but I had my AR in the back seat the whole time(just in case and I didnt want to leave it at home where it could be stolen if the house was destroyed). I had to be careful not to use all my light batteries up. Supplies can run out overnight when people panic. Now I have about 10 pounds of batteries under my bed and lights stashed all over the place. Dont count on going to the store to buy what you need in a crisis; keep what you NEED stashed in your house. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 9:14:02 PM EDT
[#11]
+1 to that, jonathan. I have an ex-girlfriend I can't stand in Vancleave north of Biloxi and can only imagine the shit she went through lately.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 9:27:17 PM EDT
[#12]
If you don't like batteries, get an ACOG or a Reflex.
It's what I'm doing. |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 12:57:38 AM EDT
[#13]
My take on this , is that less is more. I don't have NVG's so an Aimpoint or Eotech ain't gonna help me in the darkness, as all I will see is a red dot. Have read reports from SF soldiers that stated they reliability, and durability issues with Aimpoints, wandering zero with Eo's and washout with both in sunlight, depending on the background. Optics are nice in addition to but not replacement for irons.
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Posted: 9/30/2005 3:07:00 AM EDT
[#14]
jonathan1994, I think your post says a lot…as it is no longer a hypothetical, argued about over the internet, but a real situation. I too, have been debating this entire concept of the ideal SHTF rig. I think that a KISS with a tritium FSP and a small weapon light would be a good compromise/would suffice. Don't get me wrong, I have the super tactical carbine and I love the uber neo-couchcommando shit, but after reading so much and listening to all that has been said, I think the best SHTF rig is a KISS.
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Posted: 9/30/2005 10:25:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Going on 6 days with the same batteries in my weaponlight (Gladius), and it's getting a pretty good workout every night.
Surefire M3 is still strong after the same, with a little less usage. 6P is dead, as is my E1E and E2D because they get the most usage. We haven't shot anyone yet, but we caught someone recon'ing the furthest part of the backyard. They were WELL into the yard, hiding and peeking behind downed trees. They almost fell over a member of our troupe that was in the process of doing their business. Snoop and Poop is the business of the day in Southeast Texas. Short Dot is still on it's first set of batteries, but I'll be trading them out later tonight. Stuck it on the Para-FAL with an ARMS topcover, still using the LaRue rings. It's not ideal, but you gotta run what you brought into this mess with you. I'll have my AR in business after we trek to UPS in Lufkin later this evening. To anyone that says battery powered devices are not necessary, you must have not been in a situation anywhere near SHTF. When you have no exterior lighting at night, you must use illumination of some sort. Target ID is paramount. You cannot engage ANYTHING in a responsible manner without a weaponlight. Don't be a jackass, a light is essential gear on any defensive long gun. To say anything else is foolish at best. Gotta run, don't wanna waste too much of the generator's fuel running the PC. -Cap'n |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 10:49:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Yes I've seen some reports on that - but many many more on how great they are. The mere fact that the soliders continue to use them says alot. And all the problems you mentioned were in early reports using the last generation of the sights - thanks to feedback from the troops we now have Rev F EOTechs (2x as bright, 2x as long lasting, and no wandering zero problems), and M2/M3 Aimpoints (as compared to the earlier Comp M-XDs). Iron sights are 2nd tier - Optics now rule on the the battlefield. Day or night they are faster and allow aimed fire from positions and in light levels that would prevent effective use of iron sights. |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 12:24:56 PM EDT
[#17]
If you base your description of SHTF on "Real Life" scenarios like the "Sand Box", you'll soon realize that advanced optics and lights like the Aim Point, EOTech, ACOG, and Sure Fire Millenium series ARE FOR SHTF situations. I would guess that if these tools are being successfully used by our troops in Iraq, they'd probably stand up to just about anything we civilians are going to command of them.
In the most dire of times...resort to your BUIS. That's why it's there. Tack |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 12:33:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Actually, you are WRONG. It is a gadget for hunting. It's a great gadget for hunting. 2 legged varmit hunting. Ask the guys in the Sand. |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 12:38:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Rob, I carried a CompM2 Aimpoint from Camp New York to the last day in Mosul, 332 days, and at our mid-tour rezero/requal range it had shifted about 1/2" at 25 yards after a LOT of hard use including multiple helicopter assaults and a lot of climbing in and out of Humvees. Averaged about a month per battery, carried a spare in my pistol grip along with two 123A's for the SureFire. Went through those a lot faster. It's a real solid piece of gear, I just want a 4x this time so went into my reup bonus money for an ACOG.
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Posted: 9/30/2005 1:37:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Don't get me wrong, I think the optics are a great advancment. One shouldn't become dependent on them though. |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 2:28:00 PM EDT
[#21]
yes, but with the advent of military grade red dot sight, iron becomes secondery, my BUIS is just fine sitting behind my EOTech. I do shoot my iron from time to time for the practice but the red dot is what I train with primarily. you are right, laways keep your iron sight skill set.
Red dot is a gross motor function where as the iron are a fine motor function. which function would you rather perform in a stress situation? especially when your brain turns into water and pour out of your ear. |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 4:36:44 PM EDT
[#22]
If the S truly Hits The Fan to the point that you're worried about long term battery supply, then the store is only "closed" when you forgot to bring the sledgehammer. You can still buy batteries NOW, though, and if you don't it's your own fault.
Like I said before, it will get dark enough that you can't see your irons well before it's dark enough that you can't see the bad guys -- also, again, don't forget the insides of buildings, especially warehouses and whatnot. Add to that moonlight, streetlamps, car headlights, and so on. |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 11:05:08 AM EDT
[#23]
I don't use electricity for the same reason... I mean what are you going to do when your A/C goes down huh? Sure I'll be cool and have the benefit of lighting, heat and numerous appliances until that disaster happens; but when it does... you'll sure be wishing you had been miserable the whole time, like me!
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Posted: 10/1/2005 11:16:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Hello? What part of BUIS are you not getting? |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 11:26:27 AM EDT
[#25]
WRONG! All you need is enough ambient light to see the outline to use an electronic sight. They are usefull except in total darkness. |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 11:47:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Aimpoint M3 = 5 years on one battery.
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Posted: 10/1/2005 12:50:55 PM EDT
[#27]
I was referring to total darkness.. |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#28]
I've got two BUIS. My current setup is an Aimpoint & a #40. If the Aimpoint goes tits-up or I run outta batteries, then I'll take off the #40/Aimpoint combo and attach my cut carry handle.
Bada-bing bada-boom, no worries!  I got both bases covered.
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Posted: 10/1/2005 2:27:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Irons are a last ditch piece of equipment and they are already antiquated and will become more so in the coming years. If you took two armies and eqiped one with iron sights only and one with optics only the army with optics would win all other things being equal. I would take an optic only rifle over an iron only rifle any time. |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 2:56:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Cool, since you're one of those no-optics, no-flash light guys, you wont see the threat and you wont see your sights - good luck bro.
Both issues addressed SEVERAL years ago. The military is still buying them in large quantities.
That'd be why people with optics invest in back up irons, but RARELY have the chance to use them. Cars use gas, water, oil and batteries. Skip vehicles for SHTF apparently. Flashlights use batteries, so skip that too - wander around tripping over shit in the dark at all time, unless you just plan on staying inside your house. Guns run on lubricant and ammo - you may have to scrounge for both just like batteries. YOU run on food and water - see the above statement, or when the world goes to hell, just suck a gun since you're unreliable. Be as ignorant as you want to be, thats you're right as an American  |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 4:51:16 PM EDT
[#31]
B-U-I-S
Seriously, have you done no reading in the last 3 years you've been a member here? +1 to whoever said "have a GPS, also have a compass, have an aimpoint, also have spare batteries and a BUIS! |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 5:06:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Oh COME ON, do you like not go out at night or something?? The only place you'll find total darkness is in dense moonless woods, sewer pipes, and unlit builings. You planning to go into combat an arm's length up a hog's ass, or what? |
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Posted: 10/1/2005 5:15:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Well if it's total darkness your iron sights aren't going to do you much good either now are they. 
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Posted: 10/1/2005 6:24:22 PM EDT
[#34]
ACOG.
I am going to be adding a Surefire very soon, and belive me, I'm definitely NOT a "gear guy". 
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Posted: 10/1/2005 11:26:33 PM EDT
[#35]
How come you don't have a Magpul on that 74 mag? 
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Posted: 10/2/2005 12:32:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Spoken like one of the true airsoft commando tards of the board. No where did I say that optics were not beneficial. I did say they do have there drawbacks becasue A) a lot are battery operated, and B) like anything electronic or mechanical, it can go tango uniform. Let someone come onto the board and say something about the simple concept is good for THEM, and all of the gadget whores that wea their 5.11 pants and vests to every gun show they can find, come out and try to defend the purchaes they have made. No one said you had to come out and defend your purchases. If it works for YOU, great, but don't think for a minute that someone who has a well used simple carbine, that practices regularly, isn't a viable fighter. Will and determination works better than any thing you can bolt onto your M4. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 1:26:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Using current technology does not make you an "airsoft commando tard." Are all the US forces running around the desert with aimpoints, night vision, IR lasers, and lights a bunch of airsoft commandos? |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 5:44:35 AM EDT
[#38]
It means that he's HOPEFULLY joking in that the other guy is probably unarmed, and he'll move on in and take over because the poster has the gun...looter mentality in other words. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 5:48:34 AM EDT
[#39]
I find that the Aimpoint halved my group size at all ranges, and makes subsequent shots faster. Even the first shot is faster. So, for any use besides punching paper targets slowfire, they're better for me. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 1:45:14 PM EDT
[#40]
and if the other guy is just as skilled, just as determined? Tie game Now if he has night sights, lights or NVG, he's ahead of the game. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 5:00:25 PM EDT
[#41]
to the pit!
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