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Posted: 7/30/2022 8:24:51 PM EDT
[#1]
They sure seem solid. If I ever put together a more cutting edge modern style AK I'd have to go with that system. Does anyone have any real world experience with how they hold zero, both lasers and top cover mount?
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Posted: 7/30/2022 8:28:23 PM EDT
[#2]
The rear of the dustcover portion of the sureshot shifts every time you attach/reattach it. It is a fine system if all you want to do is mount a magnifier on the rear portion and a red dot on the stable end, but it is not as versatile as Zenitco's product.
You may want to wait a bit to see if PSA can clone the B-33. Best of luck whatever you choose to do! |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 2:16:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rear of the dustcover portion of the sureshot shifts every time you attach/reattach it. It is a fine system if all you want to do is mount a magnifier on the rear portion and a red dot on the stable end, but it is not as versatile as Zenitco's product. You may want to wait a bit to see if PSA can clone the B-33. Best of luck whatever you choose to do! Right, but you can mount whatever optic on the main rail:  Failed To Load Title I’ll keep my eye out for PSA stuff as well. Worse case scenario I take the system off and sell it. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 12:40:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, but you can mount whatever optic on the main rail:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqihchGBL8gI’ll keep my eye out for PSA stuff as well. Worse case scenario I take the system off and sell it. It makes it difficult to run a prism scope or a lpvo. Not impossible, but not optimal. Post pics and a review when you get it and let us know how it runs for you. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 10:57:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rear of the dustcover portion of the sureshot shifts every time you attach/reattach it. It is a fine system if all you want to do is mount a magnifier on the rear portion and a red dot on the stable end, but it is not as versatile as Zenitco's product. You may want to wait a bit to see if PSA can clone the B-33. Best of luck whatever you choose to do! I was looking at this chassis system last night. How much more rail space does the MK3 provide (on the main section, not including the rear piece) over the MK2.1? |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 11:22:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was looking at this chassis system last night. How much more rail space does the MK3 provide (on the main section, not including the rear piece) over the MK2.1? It looks like 14 slots on the MK3 (with a space in between) and 7 slots on the MK2.1. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 2:32:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It looks like 14 slots on the MK3 (with a space in between) and 7 slots on the MK2.1. I looked at some pics. I was asking without the rear dustcover section and it looks like 8 slots. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 7:51:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I looked at some pics. I was asking without the rear dustcover section and it looks like 8 slots. I was just counting off the pictures as well, so who knows. Its a significant amount more though. I just wish the system held the rear dust cover in place better. As is, I wouldn't buy one. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:23:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was just counting off the pictures as well, so who knows. Its a significant amount more though. I just wish the system held the rear dust cover in place better. As is, I wouldn't buy one. Do.we know if the chassis piece of rail is long enough for two scope rings and/or back far enough to set rings for proper eye relief? If so then some sort of LVPO can be used without concern over how well the dust cover piece fits. In essence this piece becomes an access point for maintenance and nothing else. It might be nice to see a Gen 2 MK2 rail. Something like the current MK2.1 but that is just a tad longer over the receiver to allow for a scope. Maybe require the removal of the rear sight and have a continuous rail all the way along. It might also be nifty to have a railed forend that is set to align with one of the clamp-on side rail mounts. Something like this may require a spacer set or something to account for slight variations from one rifle to the next but I think it could be made to work without too much difficulty. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 11:26:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do.we know if the chassis piece of rail is long enough for two scope rings and/or back far enough to set rings for proper eye relief? If so then some sort of LVPO can be used without concern over how well the dust cover piece fits. In essence this piece becomes an access point for maintenance and nothing else. My take is worth the paper its printed on as I do not own the product but: 1. The rear portion is held in place by tension and fitment, and is not stable. 2. the rear piece doesn't form a co-plane with the front rail in most cases. Therefore, I would be really hesitant to run a LPVO on it that requires one of the rings be mounted to the rear portion. I don't think most ring setups would allow for proper eye relief if they are only mounted on the front portions slots. Caveat to this: I don't know every single mounting setup in existence, so maybe there is a solution out there. Second caveat: I would NOT hesitate to run this thing with a red dot on the front portion, so if thats the goal of end users then it may be a solution. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 11:53:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Perhaps you could use a cantilevered AR type scope mount turned backwards to get the scope closer to the eye while only mounting on the chassis rail.
I think the main design theory for the Mk3 setup was more for a red dot plus magnifier combo, where the red dot is on the forward rail and the magnifier is one the dust cover rail, where it won't matter if it shifts a little bit. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 11:58:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps you could use a cantilevered AR type scope mount turned backwards to get the scope closer to the eye while only mounting on the chassis rail. I think the main design theory for the Mk3 setup was more for a red dot plus magnifier combo, where the red dot is on the forward rail and the magnifier is one the dust cover rail, where it won't matter if it shifts a little bit. I think that’s the option you would have to use. I have the sureshot mk3 on a Draco and the rear portion of the dust cover doesn’t come close to being on the same plane as the front half of the dust cover. After working with the company for some time (they were very helpful) I still couldn’t get it any better and decided it was “good enough.”  
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:44:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perhaps you could use a cantilevered AR type scope mount turned backwards to get the scope closer to the eye while only mounting on the chassis rail. That would likely work. Then add a fairly tall riser to a Magpul stock to help compensate. But I'd prefer to run some low-ish rings and a short (or no) spacer on the stock. I have a Delta Stryker on my PSA AK-103 with the SAG side mount. The scope is in a Warne cantilever mount. It isn't too bad when shooting in the standing or kneeling but I find it quite uncomfortable when shooting prone. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:46:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that’s the option you would have to use. I have the sureshot mk3 on a Draco and the rear portion of the dust cover doesn’t come close to being on the same plane as the front half of the dust cover. After working with the company for some time (they were very helpful) I still couldn’t get it any better and decided it was “good enough.” https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/243189/92CA8269-CFA0-4F1A-88A1-9B09590E46B6-2231941.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/243189/FBE3F1DC-7507-4B0B-A22B-8311C66EAF29-2226954.jpg I may have asked you this before but how far back does the rail extend from the back of the rear sight? Couple you take a measurement? |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 12:46:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that’s the option you would have to use. I have the sureshot mk3 on a Draco and the rear portion of the dust cover doesn’t come close to being on the same plane as the front half of the dust cover. After working with the company for some time (they were very helpful) I still couldn’t get it any better and decided it was “good enough.” https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/243189/92CA8269-CFA0-4F1A-88A1-9B09590E46B6-2231941.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/243189/FBE3F1DC-7507-4B0B-A22B-8311C66EAF29-2226954.jpg So I’ve talked to them about the Draco mount, it’s sexy as hell, would you recommend it? I’d been looking for a Draco set up with this for a while since I saw it on their website as an option. Is install easy? To me this rail is optimized for CQB carbines like the 102, 104 and 105, and that’s typically what I’m seeing SpetzNatz running red dots and magnifiers on, or just red dot/magnifier combo set up on a full size rifle |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 1:16:10 PM EDT
[#16]
I think the sureshot rails are a lot better looking than Zenitco counterparts, but Zenitco seems to have maintained its reputation for robustness. To me, sureshot chassis equipped Dracos are the best looking modern AKs.
For the sake of posterity and for future folks looking to solve the same problem I was (LPVO on an AK without a side rail or don’t want to use the side rail to maintain side folding stock functionality), the absolute best solution has been replacing the rear sight block with the Sabrewerks Kalashnikov Optics Platform. The overall cost of gunsmithing, parts (including LPVO mount and rings), and labor ended up being $300 or less. It was the perfect solution for me. Obviously doesn’t solve the front end problem like sureshot and zenitco do, but the cost savings on the non traditional KOP route means you have a lot of options for updating the front end of the firearm. Again, not trying to hijack this thread or hate on other solutions, just wanted to leave this here for future folks looking for a solution to the same problem I had. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 3:40:51 PM EDT
[#17]
If you watch the Kalashnikov Concern video I linked above, he is using a S&B 1-8x Short Dot on the front rail without an issue. Fast forward to 52 seconds. He is using what appears to be a forward facing cantilever mount (Larue maybe? He looks like a Russian garand thumb).
 Failed To Load Title On my Zastava M70, I had to forward mount my RS Regulate AKR rail as far forward as possible to get it to work with my Steiner 1-4x P4x. LPVO’s have 3-4” of eye relief. I uses Nightforce 1” ultralight rings to keep the weight down. I have an AR stock on my Zastava (Definitive Arms adapter), and it definitely helps but a LPVO needs to be mounted far forward. I can see shorter eye relief ACOGs having issues, but I prefer LPVOs like my Steiner and Kahles. Note, he does use an Elcan at the very end and that might be the outer limit of eye relief. Nevertheless, thanks for the comments. Once I get all the parts and do the build, I will post a review. If I don’t like it, y’all can make fun of me
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:16:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you watch the Kalashnikov Concern video I linked above, he is using a S&B 1-8x Short Dot on the front rail without an issue. Fast forward to 52 seconds. He is using what appears to be a forward facing cantilever mount (Larue maybe? He looks like a Russian garand thumb). [/img]EDITED: Im an idiot, found it. i |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:31:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, its a elcan specter dr 1x/4x, and its mounted too far forward to use effectively. It has a lot of eye relief built in, but mounting it that far up is ridiculous. That’s at the end of the video, and I agree with you. It’s only 2–2.5 in eye relief at best (I have one) At 52 seconds, you see this Short Dot in what looks like a Larue mount:  Attached Fileand mind you, that’s about how far forward I have my Steiner on my Zastava M70 (with an AR stock adapter and an RS regulate AKR picatinny rail) |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 8:33:02 PM EDT
[#20]
As an aside BigSal, what do you think about Occam Defense rails?
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Posted: 8/20/2022 9:14:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s at the end of the video, and I agree with you. It’s only 2–2.5 in eye relief at best (I have one) At 52 seconds, you see this Short Dot in what looks like a Larue mount: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10504/9138D3CA-D0FF-44DE-92DE-1DD46D060F31_jpe-2496725.JPG and mind you, that’s about how far forward I have my Steiner on my Zastava M70 (with an AR stock adapter and an RS regulate AKR picatinny rail) Shoot, my apologies. I must have gone too far forward! It is still really far forward for me to be comfortable with. You would see lots of black ring rather than reticle in any kind of dynamic situation. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 9:17:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As an aside BigSal, what do you think about Occam Defense rails? Same issue as the sureshot 2.1 and 3.0: I don't think these things get rail fully to where they need to be if you want to run an LPVO or rear mounted prism. If folks are just running red dots, then these might be the way to go. |
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