Update / December 19th : It’s been confirmed that the customer service “issues” which I wrote about in this post were in fact Arfcom messaging system glitches which interrupted communications between myself and the PSA representative here. My fault for assuming that I was being ignored.

I bought a PSA AK after years of being out of the AK game. Their reputation for making AKs isn’t exactly stellar but I was buying this 102 as basically a range toy and something to train AK mechanics without stockpiling a different ammo type (I primarily use ARs).

I got the rifle in (it identifies as a pistol though, plz don’t judge), and upon test firing I basically experienced light strikes 90% of the time. Tested with Wolf 223 and PMC M193 55gr. After about 40 rounds it was apparent that it was no use continuing.

I later measured the firing pin, which total overall length is 3.34in. The protrusion looked really shallow and I knew something wasn’t right. I disassembled the bolt and made sure there were no obstructions of any kind within the FP channel, which there wasn’t.

So I contacted a PSA rep here on the forum who proceeded to offer shipping me a new firing pin but never did. I later received a generic email with PSA wanting me to ship the whole rifle back, which I have no desire to do for a simple firing pin replacement. They could have easily just shipped me a new firing pin which I agreed to purchase as long as they could make sure that what they were sending was in spec. Communications went dark though and I never heard back.

Since PSA didn’t make a reasonable effort to help (outside of asking me to ship the rifle back and wait forever to get it back because of the holidays), I decided to do my own troubleshooting. I ordered a AK74 firing pin from 4Shooters in Florida, but they sent me a AK47 pin which is much larger and not interchangeable.


So even though it was pretty expensive ($140) went ahead and acquired a complete 556 Beryl Bolt to compare some of the specs and see if the firing pin was interchangeable.




I was able to measure the differences in protrusion between the PSA firing pin and a Beryl firing pin that I plan on using (although I still need to get to the range and test). The difference in protrusion is considerably different.

Please see the attached photos below

The bolt photos are using the PSA bolt and switching the firing pins. While the Beryl firing pin is not considerably longer in over all length, the shape of the cone and length of the tip allows for an extra .02 of protrusion.

If I looked at them both with no prior knowledge, I would think that the Beryl is the correct factory part, not the original PSA pin. The Beryl floats more freely in the channel despite the width measurements being no different. I think the cylindrical design is better than the flat design.

Anyways I feel confident that this is a fix. I just need to go confirm at the range. Obviously if I experience any popped primers then I will know it’s too much and could trim/reshape the tip as needed.

I also checked headspace with a No-Go and it appears to be fine.


Ultimately I find it pretty sad that a company like PSA can’t work with a customer to send out a $10 part. It would have saved me a considerable amount of time, money, and trouble.

@PalmettoStateArmory
I’m willing to take a new firing pin if you want to send me one. If not, I feel compelled to do a PSA Ak102 YouTube review that spells out in great detail the issues I’ve had so far, to include the names of PSA reps that ghosted me.

I’m posting this information in hopes that it helps someone else in the future if they run into problems. Not a bash thread. If I hated PSA I wouldn’t have a registered lower from them.

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Also, here is the type of stuff that other customers are dealing with. It’s unacceptable that PSA is this many generations into a product and still can’t seem to get some things right. I love the new product offerings but stuff like this makes me wonder what the QC people are doing at PSA:

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One thing to keep in mind after the firing pin swap is pierced primers. Check that brass that gets chucked into the next state.

Seems like you went to a lot of effort and money for a firing pin, that sucks, I had no idea 74 pins were that hard to find.

Also bummed that PSA seems to have these kinda problems with 100 series, I really like their offerings, and have money in hand for the 102 and unlimited .223 ammo, just can't seem to pull the trigger on it yet.

Yeah I mentioned in the thread that popped primers were my concern going forward with testing.

And yes, unfortunately 74 pins are seemingly difficult to source. Firingpins.com looked very promising and they even list their OAL measurement @ 3.38in which likely would have done the trick, but they are always out of stock. Same with Carolina Shooter’s supply

4Shooters in Florida accidentally sent me a AK47 pin which is much wider and not interchangeable with 74s. So I’m sending that back on Monday.

My main purpose was posting for anyone after me who has issues. Hopefully this info helps.

I can’t blame you for holding off. Hopefully PSA will get me a new firing pin so I can conclude with something positive. Otherwise they need to understand that people will be deterred from purchasing if they can’t send working firearms to customers, or at least help customers when things don’t go right. That help needs to be reasonable/logical and not involve sending a rifle back over something simple to clog up their already backed up Warranty/RMA department.

I immediately ordered a east German firing pin when I ordered my 104 a year and a half ago, Runs like a top still. The PSA firing pin looks about the same dimensionally so I keep it as a spare.

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Is this a known issue on the x39 guns or the 103’s?

Im not sure, I ordered mine when the AK74s where having firing pin problems. Cheap insurance for x39 guns.

Below is a photo of some protrusion measurements I took. I used a couple of my ARs as a control.

The PSA AK102 is on the lower side of spec, but still technically within AR15/556 specifications. Even so, it fails to ignite primers roughly 90% of the time. So having already checked and ruled out headspace as an issue, my first step will simply be trying out a enhanced-power hammer spring, and if that doesn’t work, moving on to firing pin replacement.

The Beryl firing pin, while it fits in the PSA bolt and would likely function, it’s protrusion is measuring at .0535in which could result in popped primers. Therefore I won’t be attempting to use it unless modified to fall within acceptable specifications.

Interestingly, the 556 Polish Beryl bolt’s protrusion measures .0405. That is .0045in above maximum spec for 556 AR protrusion. I don’t know why, but I suspect that they do this for the expected ammo types such as military ammunition and Russian steel cased ammo which are known to have hard primers.

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While it isn’t exactly a related article (linked below), it does mention extended +.012in firing pins used in ARs to ignite steel cased ammo reliably (although I’ve personally never had issues with steel ammo in any of my ARs). He mentions having protrusion of 0.049in in a factory 556 rifle without experiencing pierced primers.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Extended+Firing+Pin+for+AR-15+Ignition+Woes%3a+Some+imported+ammunition...-a0657632637

Josiah this customer service is what makes me want to buy one as well.

Max

Definition time…
Threat: “a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.”
    The word “ultimatum” is more appropriate in this case, but then it wouldn’t be a sensational comment made to paint me as a bad guy. Some of the legacy news media would love to hire someone that acts the way you do @d16man. No hard feelings however. To your point though, if Josiah has been trying to reach me but can’t due to a Arfcom messaging issue, then it could be that my ultimatum was a bit premature or not warranted. As of now though, I think I’m being ignored.


Also @PalmettoStateArmory I haven’t received any communication since you asked for my order number early last week. Nothing with your information or any messages recently.
As the poster above me pointed out, it would be better to send a firing pin, unless you communicate some better reasoning to me (which I’m open to hearing). As of now, we haven’t discussed anything.

Gotcha. You might be the PSA shill over on AKFILES that got upset at me.

There’s nothing I can do about your feelings pal. If you don’t like customers being able to hold companies accountable, just don’t read the thread. Certainly don’t let it trigger you. PSA is a huge company, and even if I wanted to launch a huge smear campaign (which I’m not), it wouldn’t even begin to put a dent in their sales or cause them “pain” . I’m just trying to help the customers that come after me.

Also, this is a tech thread, and I’m posting tech info. GD is a place where you can go to air out your displeasure with the opinions of others.

Contact an admin if you think I’m out of line. Although you are trying desperately to make me out to be the new unabomber, anyone can actually read through the thread and see all my comments. No bad language at all.

Please stop the non tech discussion, it’s not the purpose of this thread.


Back to tech:
Also, there is no spec for all 556 AKs (unlike a 556 AR15), but it’s well under the protrusion of a known quality 556 imported AK rifle with a track record of absolute reliability. It’s showing to be .011 shorter than the Beryl firing pin protrusion, which is a considerable amount in terms of primer detonation.

I agree with you there.

I've never known PSA to "ghost" any customer who has an issue.  



um, if you look above this post i quoted, Josiah/PSA Rep here, had replied in this thread about helping you and offered not only an explanation, but solutions again.  i dont see how you still havent received any communication as he clearly did communicate here in the thread, even if you arent getting any of the private messages in the forum.  

as for your problem, in my opinion you went a bit crazy going forward to even buy an additional bcg from another company, when all you had to do was be a bit more patient and talk to Josiah/PSA.  Furthermore, if you cant find resolution here, you could always come over to PSA's Forum on their own site, and attempt to get it solved there instead of posting elsewhere like on AKFiles or wherever else you were posting about this, just an idea.  sometimes customers like you seem to make issues worse than solving them, by going too indepth and not having patience.

Everything I have posted is a result of not receiving communication from the PSA rep here, or is a result of posting tech information that I think will help other people later on. I dig through these forums and find tons of info that has saved me time and money over the years. It might not be important to you, but could be to someone else.

I appreciate your seemingly unbiased input.

OP. The owner of PSA personally took care of an issue I was having with my AK (Romanian drums did not fit). They also upgraded my Rifle with next gen parts free of charge. It was back in less than 2 weeks.  I'd take them up on it.

The only thing I wish they did different was send a note with all that was replaced on my gun. They sent it back without notice and without any summary of what was done.

My drums are in another state and I haven't been able to confirm fit.

Josiah says you asked them to inspect the whole firearm. Do you give permission to Josiah permission to post your communications with personal info blacked out to prove who is right and wrong? That would clear this up real quick.

Please do, because I never once asked them to inspect the whole firearm. The opposite in fact.

Maybe he got mixed up with a different customer. I’ll screenshot my message to him.

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*there is a photo link in that message that doesn’t populate. So if the text appears to skip over something that’s why.


Also, I only have two messages from Josiah, both asking for my order number on the 13th. Nothing else (and I included my other contact info in my first message to him)

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Sweet we will find out soon, although your picture doesn't really prove anything because he said you sent a second message right after your first and you can delete PMs.

Please have him screenshot whatever he has then. I sent him several PMs (9 I believe) trying to get a response.

The deletion of PMs though? That’s not something I would do. I don’t have time to play games, nor does my 300+ feedback reflect that I’m a dishonest person. I’m wrong sometimes (often depending on what subject), but I’m not lying about anything in this thread. I just went back through my messages to him, and never asked to send the rifle back.

A big question this raises though: If he got my first message (with contact info) as you said, why is he communicating with other people about this thread but not getting ahold of me?

Fwiw I've put thousands of rounds through a 5.56 AK74 build where no modification was done to the firing pin. I've never had a pierced primer, though the primer indentation is obviously deeper than from my Saiga or ARs. I don't believe I've heard anyone else who has done similar builds having primer issues.

I suspect that the military Beryl bolt has the same FP protrusion as a regular AK74. It looks identical to mine. I would have to verify measurements though.

I've thought about modifying an AK74 pin to the proper 5.56 protrusion spec by shaving some material off of the tail, but it hasn't been an issue so why fix what isn't broken

If I were you I would also try another hammer spring with the PSA FP and see if you get different results.

Josiah,

Just to be perfectly clear, I haven’t been contacted by you since I sent you my order number on the 13th. I also held off contacting PSA customer service as it seemed like you were going to take care of it. Since you responded to my first message, I know you have my contact info. Any sight messaging issues haven’t prevented PSA from contacting me (as I received one email from John at PSA Warranty department). I’ll however give the benefit of doubt that you guys are super busy. Please contact me at your convenience using the contact info in my first message to you. I’ll gladly wait additional time for you to get back to me.

I would like to be able to say I’m wrong for creating this thread. If we find that there was an error in the Arfcom  communication system and we reach a positive resolution regarding the AK102, you will get a much deserved apology for me going outside the chain of regular communication.

Thanks for posting.

Any details on what 74 parts were used?

I have a feeling based on feedback from other 556 AK owners, that firing protrusion exceeds what is normally found on 556 AR15s. I don’t know why other than the ammo situation I discussed in my post. It makes sense that PSA would follow the AR15 specs they are used to, and there shouldn’t technically be any difference from what I can gather. But for some reason imported AKs have more protrusion on average than what I am seeing with PSA.

Also just an observation of your post, I don’t believe modifying the tail/rear of the firing pin would have an effect on protrusion. The rear of the pin is slightly recessed into the firing pin channel already to prevent the hammer from resting on it, so shortening it wouldn’t do much for protrusion. You would need to modify the tip of the pin to reduce protrusion. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

@PalmettoStateArmory

PM sent. Let me know if you got it. I need to ask some questions about returning via a phone call. Thanks

Also, I’m starting to think there is a real messaging issue. If you can screenshot your PM to me explaining wanting the firearm back I would really appreciate it (some other people would like to see that screenshot also apparently). I haven’t received any PMs since the 13th.

Truly wouldn't surprise me. Most of the time I get a PM from someone, it comes in 2-3 times and several people have sworn they have PM'd me and I never received anything.

Same. Their mailbox could very well be full also. I’m pretty sure he has my email and phone number in my first pm though, because he responded to that first message pretty quickly.

Don't feel too bad, I IM'd @PalmettoStateArmory begging for some insider info on a product release and he ignored me completely

Probably because you bought up all the parts he wanted on the EE

Excellent, message received. Glad to hear there aren’t any site messaging issues.

I’ll respond shortly. Thanks for reaching out.

Just a Bulgarian AK-74 parts kit but with a 5.56 barrel, Beryl & AC Unity 5.56 magazines, and a slight modification to the extractor to get a tighter grip on the marginally smaller 5.56 rim. Pretty much what PSA is building now.

I admit I had trouble wrapping my head around the "correct" way to shorten the FP if I did do it. My assumption is it would be easier to trim the tail than to maintain the proper shape and heat treating at the pin end. If you shorten the tail, the pin goes out of contact with the hammer sooner., before the pin end bottoms out at the bolt face. I doubt the inertia of the pin is enough to continue exerting any pressure on the primer after the hammer has bottomed out at the tail of the bolt, but I could be wrong.

PSA will take care of you... They have been great on these forums

Then it sounds like a classic example of us getting screwed by the Arfcom messaging system. I should have known, because it happens to me frequently when dealing with sales on the equipment exchange. My fault for just assuming I was getting ignored. Unfortunately all too often companies do ignore people or are too busy to keep up with everyone. Again, sorry for assuming the worst.

I’ve gone ahead and updated the beginning of this thread to reflect that, so hopefully there is clarity as to why we had communication delays/disappearance. No fault of yours Josiah and I’m sorry I assumed you weren’t trying to contact me

13th, to today the 19th... minus 2 days for weekend = 4 business days. durring holiday season... while i know many will say its not fast enough, we must be honest with the timeframe here.. and i still dont think thats horrible all things considered.

Ultimately it was just the Arfcom messenger issues. I’m sure he messaged the same day (13th). I’ve updated the post to reflect that.

Hey Josiah,

The piston is irrelevant to anything regarding the issues I’ve posted here, however I appreciate your willingness to take in the firearm for warranty work regardless of modifications. That is likely not something you offer in every situation so I appreciate all you have done to go the extra mile to help me out.

To be clear, the AK102 isn’t currently “failing”. I never claimed any issues other than what I posted here in the thread. It was failing with the factory hammer spring and firing pin, the firing pin being the source of issues. This will be reiterated in the following video links.

I still never got your email so I am unable to respond to you any other way. My site messages aren’t showing as sent either so I’m done attempting to use that as a form of communication. Posting here is my only way of getting messages to you until you send me an email using the contact info I provided you in my very first message that you responded to.

Video disclaimer: none of these YouTube videos are “public”, meaning you can’t search for them on YouTube and are only viewable by using the links. I want to be clear that this is not an attempt to “put PSA on blast”. The purpose of this thread has been to share technical info and hopefully acquire a replacement part from PSA.
The videos are just an elaboration. “A picture is worth a thousand words” and a video is worth a thousand pictures.
   
The following videos are not representative of any new information, but simply in addition to what I’ve already posted.

The first is just a simple headspace check to show that the AK102 is properly headspaced: https://youtube.com/shorts/sWDMycOkk-Q?feature=share



The second video is showing the light strikes occurring consistently with the factory firing pin and factory hammer spring:

The third video is with an ALG high energy hammer spring installed. This enhanced hammer spring is a bandaid for the shallow protrusion of the factory firing pin. A heavier hammer spring should never be needed, and a properly specced firing pin is the solution for this issue. :

This was repeatable with different ammo types as well as the two trigger groups I used (factory PSA & ALG AKT)



As I’ve stated from the beginning, I don’t think a warranty is necessary for this unless PSA just wants to inspect it, in which case I will discuss with Josiah further. I would still be really happy if PSA would send out a replacement firing pin that measures on the high end of their specifications (as opposed to the shallow protruding pin I currently have).


Despite this issue, I like my 102 and think PSA makes a good product for the money. It seems to be common consensus that there are smaller details that need to be addressed within PSAs AK line such as specs/QC. The customers shouldn’t be the T&E crew, but it’s inevitable that stuff like this will happen. If customers don’t bring it up, how can things be expected to get better?

Josiah @PalmettoStateArmory I would encourage the customer service team to use discretion when engaging with customers who are expressing knowledge of an issue with their product (so long as they provide adequate evidence). Try to give the benefit of doubt to customers who provide that detailed evidence of an issue. Not every issue requires the customer to warranty their firearm by sending back for a diagnosis and repair, especially when it is something simple like this. I think mailing a customer a spare part in this case is a perfectly reasonable first step (for a multitude of reasons that benefit the company and customer).

I hope this is enough to satisfy any curiosity you have expressed in wanting to figure out what might be causing the issue. I just ask that you look at what I’ve presented. I want to lay to rest what you were alluding to in your previous response, which is that you were probably thinking that I caused issues with some modifications to the AK102?

So again I want to thank Josiah for being patient with me and overcoming the messaging issues we’ve had. Thanks for everyone who posted with additional insight.

CoC violations