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Official Wood refinishing thread (Page 1 of 5)
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Posted: 1/20/2013 10:20:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Finslayer83][Edited]
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I'm trying something out today in prep for my polish wood.
I'm wanting the polish brown / honey brown color seen on polish laminate and some soviet stocks. I soaked the wood last night in some stripper and stripped off the finish. This morning I sanded with 120 then some extra fine. I was going to cut my iodine solution with some alcohol, but got a wild hair and decided to use straight iodine for the stain. I usually use the iodine mixed with my shellac, but wanted to try a different angle this time. Stay tuned. |
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So this is going as desired.
Wood in question is romanian. Strip it down until you get to the base "white". This can be do e through sanding, chemical stripping, or a combination of both (I did this). *note* I did not bleach the wood. I'm not trying to achieve presentation grade finish here, so I didn't want the extra hours work of bleaching and drying the wood on top of the other work involved. With that said, it would probably enchance this process. I have a simple setup on the kitchen counter. - latex gloves - Walmart brand iodine antiseptic - paper towels to rub in iodine - 0000 steel wool to buff out raised grain. - how you strip and sand prior to this point is up to you. With clean and dry wood I rubbed in a good coat of iodine. The wood is thirsty so it absorbed it rather quickly. I set the wood aside for about 20 min. After that it had absorbed the color and will leave you with an orangish yellowish tint. I took some 0000 steel wool and buffed out the raised grain, and re applied another coat of iodine. Here it is drying with second coat. 
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Originally Posted By Dragynn:
Wow, I thought it would wind up darker than that using straight iodine. I wonder how food coloring would work..... The iodine is darker when it's in the bottle, than once it's been rubbed in. I did some on a piece of pine as a test before all this and it's almost a tree sap color. |
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The only shellac I had at the house was some of the amber I mixed up a couple of weeks ago.
So it turned out a little darker than I liked. I'll be sure to just use clear on the new wood as today was explitory in trying to find the right color. Pics shortly |
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Originally Posted By SGL_Shooter:
What brake is that? Damage industries. I like it. It is quite loud if you aren't the shooter. Let me find a vid real quick. Eta: 
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thanks all!
When I do the polish wood I'm going to not use the amber shellac mixture I still have. I will pick up some clear shellac and just use that as I like the color of the wood before I stained it. The romy wood I used is my "test" platform for stains / colors and has seen several over the years, I'll leave it like this for now. As to the poster who asked about adding red food coloring / rit dye to get the Soviet look....I can't answer that, Sinatra probably can. The best repo outside of actual soviet wood, was shellac mixed with garnet shellac flakes. It is my understanding this is how the actual wood is finished. I'm moving away from Soviet "red" (misnomer) as I find the "honey brown" and "orange brown" to be much more appealing. ETA: This is my personal favorite Soviet finish, its what I consider the "Honey Brown". I see more examples of this finish on AKM stocks than I do AK74 stocks; however, there are a few 74 sets floating around here I've seen before in posts that are beautiful. 
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
As to the poster who asked about adding red food coloring / rit dye to get the Soviet look....I can't answer that, Sinatra probably can. The best repo outside of actual soviet wood, was shellac mixed with garnet shellac flakes. It is my understanding this is how the actual wood is finished. I've seen a copy of a letter from the marketing director of Tula stating how the Russians finished their AK furniture. They "bathed" it in pine tar and then finished it with a "shellac varnish covering". There are different types of shellac, which have different color properties. This will affect the outcome of the finish as well. I've seen some nice work done with different dyes like Rit and shellac. I don't know what chemical the Soviets used for coloring though. I'm moving away from Soviet "red" (misnomer) as I find the "honey brown" and "orange brown" to be much more appealing. I like all of the variants of Soviet AK furniture finishes, but I really dig the "iodine orange" or "orange brown" as well. Also, the "rust" finish looks great. ETA: This is my personal favorite Soviet finish, its what I consider the "Honey Brown". I see more examples of this finish on AKM stocks than I do AK74 stocks; however, there are a few 74 sets floating around here I've seen before in posts that are beautiful. http://i.imgur.com/2uXEuOK.jpg I dig it that finish too. If I could afford it, I'd "wall paper" my garage with Soviet laminate furniture. 
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Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
From what I heard Pine tar and Amber Shellac is what the Soviets use. Sinatra has finished some stock sets with this with awesome results. Thanks Joe. I love the history of Soviet weapons and their wood furniture in particular. I love researching it. Doug (Tantal) has a website with some great info and pics. One factor that affects the the look of Russian furniture is the length of time they bathed it in pine tar. You'll see some pics of furniture that has an almost burnt appearance. That has to do with how long it was left in the pine tar. The longer it's in there, the darker it gets. Burnt Red Example (Original Russian furniture) 
The type and age of the wood used for the furniture when it was made also affects its appearance. I'm not 100% certain of this, (I could be wrong) but you'll see some AK-74 furniture around from time to time that has green in it. I believe this is because they used sapwood (the edge part of the wood). Sapwood = "Because sapwood contains the sap-conducting cells of the tree, it tends to have a relatively high moisture content. This is good for the living tree but it is not so good for the woodworker, because sapwood tends to shrink and move considerably when dried, and it is much more susceptible to decay and staining by fungi." 
Another factor that affects the appearance of the finish is the type of shellac used. There are quite a few different types of shellac that have unique color properties. When the shellac is applied to the wood, the outcome can vary based on a combination of these factors. I do not know if the Russians used different kinds of shellac over the years or not. This would make sense considering that shellac is a natural substance (also fabricated) and is seasonal. Liquid shellac is produced by mixing dry shellac flakes with denatured alcohol. I think that the Russians may have used regular alcohol when mixing their shellac. I finished a set of furniture for Mario (P.O.H.) and he sent me a very cool gift. It was an AK oil bottle with some Russian factory shellac. I don't know how old it was (liquid shellac has a 6 month shelf life once it's made), but it smelled like straight alcohol. As though you could drink it! It wonder if those Tula factory workers just used vodka...? I've heard of some guys mixing their shellac with Everclear here in the States. Interesing.... So, you see there are so many factors that affected how Russian furniture turned out. I love it! Sorry to hijack your thread Fin. |
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Originally Posted By Sinatra:
Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
From what I heard Pine tar and Amber Shellac is what the Soviets use. Sinatra has finished some stock sets with this with awesome results. Thanks Joe. I love the history of Soviet weapons and their wood furniture in particular. I love researching it. Doug (Tantal) has a website with some great info and pics. One factor that affects the the look of Russian furniture is the length of time they bathed it in pine tar. You'll see some pics of furniture that has an almost burnt appearance. That has to do with how long it was left in the pine tar. The longer it's in there, the darker it gets. Burnt Red Example (Original Russian furniture) http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2815/tulai.jpg The type and age of the wood used for the furniture when it was made also affects its appearance. I'm not 100% certain of this, (I could be wrong) but you'll see some AK-74 furniture around from time to time that has green in it. I believe this is because they used sapwood (the edge part of the wood). Sapwood = "Because sapwood contains the sap-conducting cells of the tree, it tends to have a relatively high moisture content. This is good for the living tree but it is not so good for the woodworker, because sapwood tends to shrink and move considerably when dried, and it is much more susceptible to decay and staining by fungi." http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/Stottman/crap74bs23mar.jpg Another factor that affects the appearance of the finish is the type of shellac used. There are quite a few different types of shellac that have unique color properties. When the shellac is applied to the wood, the outcome can vary based on a combination of these factors. I do not know if the Russians used different kinds of shellac over the years or not. This would make sense considering that shellac is a natural substance (also fabricated) and is seasonal. Liquid shellac is produced by mixing dry shellac flakes with denatured alcohol. I think that the Russians may have used regular alcohol when mixing their shellac. I finished a set of furniture for Mario (P.O.H.) and he sent me a very cool gift. It was an AK oil bottle with some Russian factory shellac. I don't know how old it was (liquid shellac has a 6 month shelf life once it's made), but it smelled like straight alcohol. As though you could drink it! It wonder if those Tula factory workers just used vodka...? I've heard of some guys mixing their shellac with Everclear here in the States. Interesing.... So, you see there are so many factors that affected how Russian furniture turned out. I love it! Sorry to hijack your thread Fin. No sir! your input is most welcome! |
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| How are you applying the shellac.I have some amber shellac and it dries really fast,sometimes before i get it coated!Any help will be appreciated! |
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Originally Posted By Reticle:
How are you applying the shellac.I have some amber shellac and it dries really fast,sometimes before i get it coated!Any help will be appreciated! I've done it two ways. - 2" wide cheap paint brush - old rag and wiped it on (wear latex gloves) Gotta move fast. You can also cut the shellac some with denatured alcohol. |
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Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
Incase you need more Soviet wood for reference 
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_0242_zps5cfa11dd.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_0228_zps76b0803e.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/DSC00629.jpg As much as im obsessed with Russian Laminate wood i LOVE these Polish handguards that came with my Polish UF (not CAI) that i eventually put on my beater WASR. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/DSC00563.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_2407.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_2404.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_2416.jpg I've slowly gone from loving Soviet wood to preferring Polish wood. The set referenced earlier in the thread was mine in 2011, but I sold it as I ended up buying an AR instead of an AKM....FOOLISH ME.... and I even paid $75 bucks for the set NOS. 
Originally Posted By DSH1776:
This might be a stupid question but how did you get that bad ass antique look on that ak? I'd bet steel wool and a can of elbow grease. |
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
Incase you need more Soviet wood for reference
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_0242_zps5cfa11dd.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_0228_zps76b0803e.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/DSC00629.jpg As much as im obsessed with Russian Laminate wood i LOVE these Polish handguards that came with my Polish UF (not CAI) that i eventually put on my beater WASR. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/DSC00563.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_2407.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_2404.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/IMG_2416.jpg I've slowly gone from loving Soviet wood to preferring Polish wood. The set referenced earlier in the thread was mine in 2011, but I sold it as I ended up buying an AR instead of an AKM....FOOLISH ME.... and I even paid $75 bucks for the set NOS.
Originally Posted By DSH1776:
This might be a stupid question but how did you get that bad ass antique look on that ak? I'd bet steel wool and a can of elbow grease. lol correct. I was in my experiment phase. I thought my dark slightly beat up Polish HG's didnt match a nice finish so i decided to go the BFPU route. |
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Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
Take pictures with less sunlight, im curious http://i.imgur.com/bkW3ghm.jpg Honestly, i think this finish would look awesome on a Chinese AK. |
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Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Originally Posted By ZEROTHOMAS:
Take pictures with less sunlight, im curious http://i.imgur.com/bkW3ghm.jpg Honestly, i think this finish would look awesome on a Chinese AK. Im going to get the same finish on the wood I have inbound....then use clear shellac, followed by steel wool to take the shine off. how good does chicom wood take stain? never messed with it before. |
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| ive got a milled mak recently but im waiting on ironwood furn. I don't know that the butthole furniture is worth messing w/ but I may. I will contribute more pictures to the sight one of these days soon promise, but meanwhile enjoying everyone elses. Im very interested in this thread and a few others specificly because I wanted to and WILL do a nice woody brown color on my set. I didn't know if that was breaking any rules w/ a chinese, but I was going to do it anyway and just not tell anyone here. Now that I know its not a complete discrace idea I might be more open about it, BTW they said i'de be able to get a good extra cuttoff piece for testing which should help the process, although this may not be new news to anyone, I was happy to hear it was a no prob. by ironwood. |
Just a quick pic of contrasting Russian shellac finishes. These handguards are on my 1970 Tula build. These came with the kit, so they both went on. The upper HG is a lighter iodine orange color, and the lower is a darker, and more brown colored. The stock is more of a brown color as well. Shellac comes in many different colors, but many screw up the attempt to duplicate it by doing the rit dye method, which usually comes out too red. From what I've seen, the Russian stocks really don't have much red in them. This is sort of a pet peeve of mine. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.
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Originally Posted By DSH1776: ive got a milled mak recently but im waiting on ironwood furn. I don't know that the butthole furniture is worth messing w/ but I may. I will contribute more pictures to the sight one of these days soon promise, but meanwhile enjoying everyone elses. Im very interested in this thread and a few others specificly because I wanted to and WILL do a nice woody brown color on my set. I didn't know if that was breaking any rules w/ a chinese, but I was going to do it anyway and just not tell anyone here. Now that I know its not a complete discrace idea I might be more open about it, BTW they said i'de be able to get a good extra cuttoff piece for testing which should help the process, although this may not be new news to anyone, I was happy to hear it was a no prob. by ironwood. Well, first off, it's your rifle so do with it as you please. Secondly, the Chinese use shellac on their AK's, so you would not be totally out of line by experimenting with some different shades of shellac. Lastly, I wouldn't mess with the butthole stock because you can sell it still and make a little money back from the IWD stock. Be sure to post pics when you get it finished. |
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Originally Posted By Troubledjoe:
Just a quick pic of contrasting Russian shellac finishes. These handguards are on my 1970 Tula build. These came with the kit, so they both went on. The upper HG is a lighter iodine orange color, and the lower is a darker, and more brown colored. The stock is more of a brown color as well. Shellac comes in many different colors, but many screw up the attempt to duplicate it by doing the rit dye method, which usually comes out too red. From what I've seen, the Russian stocks really don't have much red in them. This is sort of a pet peeve of mine. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic. http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/bigblockchevyss/dfrg_zpsb3ce0d39.png Got a pic of the whole rifle. I like the color of the HG. |
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Official Wood refinishing thread (Page 1 of 5)
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