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Posted: 8/21/2021 2:29:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Wondering the same thing…. Haven’t been able to find any volume producers. (Hornady makes 5.45, but not in large lots).
I think my ‘74 are gonna become really awesome paperweights soon. |
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Posted: 8/21/2021 7:24:50 PM EDT
[#2]
I’ve seen a lot of Bulgarian + some Polish surplus before it got banned. Whether they can still produce 5.45 I dunno.
I bet the East German machinery was sold off or junked years ago. Don’t recall if Romania produced the round, |
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Posted: 8/21/2021 7:54:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Bulgarian, Polish, Romanian, RWS (steel case RWS Century Imported with SSG-82s) is what I have seen and used.
Not seen much outside of Ruskie in years! |
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Posted: 8/21/2021 8:44:07 PM EDT
[#4]
With the absurd volume of 5.45 imported and the relatively few 5.54 rifles and mags…ammo should be dirt cheap.
I see nobody shooting it at the range. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:24:18 PM EDT
[#5]
The RWS stuff was made in East Germany.
Hornady uses/used Russian cases before coming out with their brass cased version. The USSR, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, and East Germany made it during the Warsaw Pact era. Hungary and the Czechs did not because they had to be different. Ukraine is out since their factory was stripped of machinery a few years ago. Yugoslavia, Indonesia, Kahzahkistan, and North Korea make it or made it. I think one or more of the other "Stans" have made it or offer it, but I forget which ones. Any ammunition manufacturer can make this round. The question is demand vs. minimum orders. An importer would have to gamble that they could sell X-millions of rounds to secure an order from a manufacturer, assuming a manufacturer was willing to tool up for making this round. Outside of the Bulgarian and Polish surplus, I don't think any 5.45 has been imported in the last 7-8 years from any where but Russia and maybe a small amount of "Red Army Standard" from Romania. Personally, I predict this caliber will fade away as what is in the country now is used up or squirreled away and whatever gets imported from elsewhere is too expensive. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 6:28:59 PM EDT
[#6]
I forsee Hornady stepping up some more.
I hope to see more of the RAS stuff. It's been good ammo. It's all I've put through my 74s. |
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Posted: 8/23/2021 12:14:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Red Army Standard Ammo does.
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Posted: 8/23/2021 7:11:07 PM EDT
[#8]
5.45 is done I would say. 7n6 ban killed ultra cheap ammo and what is left is mostly Russian. Sad day, I will forget buying a PSA AK74.
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Posted: 8/24/2021 1:58:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Hey maybe all the people waiting for PSA ak products will find them more....available now.
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Posted: 8/24/2021 2:48:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Red Army Standard Ammo does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Standard_Ammunition Cartridges are made in various countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Poland. One manufacturer of RAS cartridges is Lugansk Cartridge Works, in Lugansk, Ukraine and its headstamp code is the letters "LU". Another factory is the IGMAN d.d. Konjic cartridge plant in the city of Konjic, in Igman, Bosnia and Herzegovina and its newer headstamp is the letters "IK", while the older headstamp consists of the Cyrillic letters "??". |
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Posted: 8/24/2021 12:20:12 PM EDT
[#11]
The "LU" headstamp era was several years ago and short lived IIRC. The factory in Lugansk is no longer operating.
That wiki page is not accurate in regards to the headstamps used by Igman. They used IK and the Cyrillic version (NK) side by side for a very long time. The IK was used for commercial export production and the Cyrillic (NK) was for domestic use and military exports. One is not old and and other is not new. This is why wiki is not a reliable source of information. |
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Posted: 8/24/2021 12:33:54 PM EDT
[#12]
subscribed
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Posted: 8/24/2021 12:38:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Nice. Which brand is it?
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Posted: 8/24/2021 12:42:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Still waiting for a 1k 74 to pick up to help me get through the lifetime supply of 7n6 I got from aim.
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Posted: 8/24/2021 3:37:07 PM EDT
[#15]
If things get really dire, one can always reload 5.45. Brass can be formed from .222 Rem and .223/5.56 and projectiles can be resized. I played around with resized M-855 in the 5.45 years ago and discovered it penetrated the wood block targets I was shooting at much better than 7n6. The 7n6 tumbled within a few inches into the wood while the M-855s kept going. You can also reload tracer pulls and better terminal-performing projectiles if you really want to get into the weeds with this caliber.
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Posted: 8/30/2021 9:00:06 PM EDT
[#16]
What really sucks is that Luhansk cartridge works was one of only two Soviet factories with full tooling to build the tooling for metal press Soviet type cartridges. While they loaded ammo, their main operation was standing up production lines in Soviet countries. They produced the first 7n6 and 7n10 ever there.
Once Russia got control of the area, stripping those machines and sneaking them into Russia was one of their first moves along with the boiler and train works plants. So now the tooling and machines are sitting in Tula and vymple. So now the machines are stuck in a sanctioned country.I am sure lines can be set up elsewhere but steal case is expensive to spin up and economically needs to be close to sheet metal production facilities to remain viable cost wise. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:11:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm still seeing russian ammo available at around 50 cpr but gone are the days of 10 cpr 7n6
I think there will be ukraine production, remaining russian contracts and US production. |
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Posted: 9/14/2021 9:59:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Who is going to rebuild Lugansk and replace all the machinery that was taken just to sell 5.45 to the US?
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:53:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is going to rebuild Lugansk and replace all the machinery that was taken just to sell 5.45 to the US? No one it’s under LNR DPR control and nothing works there. It’s a Stalinist puppet state. Anything of value was stripped by Russians and Chechians. Ukraine isn’t going to spin up a new 5.45 line. They would do brass nato calibers. Only a very few countries could do it. I’d say palmetto state is more likely. |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 10:30:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one it’s under LNR DPR control and nothing works there. It’s a Stalinist puppet state. Anything of value was stripped by Russians and Chechians. Ukraine isn’t going to spin up a new 5.45 line. They would do brass nato calibers. Only a very few countries could do it. I’d say palmetto state is more likely. My reply was more of a rhetorical question. Ukraine is already making brass cased 5.56x45mm (obviously not in the eastern part of the country). |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 10:53:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Holy necropost batman!
I just make my own 5.45 brass from 223 brass and draw bullets from 5.56 bullets. I'm working on getting a load my rifles like developed. I also don't have to worry about loosing brass because I can find 223 brass anywhere. |
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Posted: 2/18/2023 5:10:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Didn’t PSA announce they are tooling up to make it?
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Posted: 2/18/2023 7:04:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t PSA announce they are tooling up to make it? Was just about to post this. |
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Posted: 2/18/2023 9:27:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy necropost batman! I just make my own 5.45 brass from 223 brass and draw bullets from 5.56 bullets. I'm working on getting a load my rifles like developed. I also don't have to worry about loosing brass because I can find 223 brass anywhere. Not everyone has the means or the desire to do this though. When handloading is the only option, a caliber really becomes a niche one and dies off. Handloading the 5.45 with resized projectiles was a great way to get tracers and better performing ball projectiles. I did a penetration-through-cover test with resized M-855 pulls vs 7n6 projectiles and the M-855s were significantly better. The 7n6 did what they were designed to do, upset and tumble, but they did it so quickly they lost penetration ability. |
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Posted: 2/18/2023 10:22:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not everyone has the means or the desire to do this though. When handloading is the only option, a caliber really becomes a niche one and dies off. Handloading the 5.45 with resized projectiles was a great way to get tracers and better performing ball projectiles. I did a penetration-through-cover test with resized M-855 pulls vs 7n6 projectiles and the M-855s were significantly better. The 7n6 did what they were designed to do, upset and tumble, but they did it so quickly they lost penetration ability. When ammo becomes difficult to find or prohibitively expensive it becomes niche and dies off. Hand loading saves it. If you already load 223 you are most of the way there to forming brass and bullets and loading 5.45. Just make sure you have a strong enough press for it. The little aluminum RCBS won't cut it. My die throws 0.220 bullets. I'm getting a load dialed for the velocity I want but so far I'm not happy with the accuracy as 5.45 is generally a .2215. Not sure why they say use that bullet die. |
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Posted: 2/18/2023 3:49:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When ammo becomes difficult to find or prohibitively expensive it becomes niche and dies off. Hand loading saves it. If you already load 223 you are most of the way there to forming brass and bullets and loading 5.45. Just make sure you have a strong enough press for it. The little aluminum RCBS won't cut it. My die throws 0.220 bullets. I'm getting a load dialed for the velocity I want but so far I'm not happy with the accuracy as 5.45 is generally a .2215. Not sure why they say use that bullet die. Whoever told you to use a 0.220" die is wrong. 0.221-0.2215 is correct. Bullet weight also plays a part. 5.45 AK barrels don't play well in the accuracy department with heavier bullets. |
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Posted: 2/28/2023 9:36:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My reply was more of a rhetorical question. Ukraine is already making brass cased 5.56x45mm (obviously not in the eastern part of the country). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No one it’s under LNR DPR control and nothing works there. It’s a Stalinist puppet state. Anything of value was stripped by Russians and Chechians. Ukraine isn’t going to spin up a new 5.45 line. They would do brass nato calibers. Only a very few countries could do it. I’d say palmetto state is more likely. My reply was more of a rhetorical question. Ukraine is already making brass cased 5.56x45mm (obviously not in the eastern part of the country). Most of the 5.56 is imported if not all. Forte did some small scale crap but a factory it’s not. Everything I saw was Lc, CBC, GgG or occasionally some RG or SB or polish/bulgy. No 5.45 from overseas new unless captured from Ruzz. I’ve heard Romania and others may make 7n6 7n10 but it won’t be imported as it’s steel core. |
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Posted: 3/1/2023 7:51:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the 5.56 is imported if not all. Forte did some small scale crap but a factory it’s not. Everything I saw was Lc, CBC, GgG or occasionally some RG or SB or polish/bulgy. No 5.45 from overseas new unless captured from Ruzz. I’ve heard Romania and others may make 7n6 7n10 but it won’t be imported as it’s steel core. I have an acquaintance in the Ukraine military that mentioned the use of domestic made 5.56. Short version is he mobilized last year with his personal AR-15 (scoped, DMR type rifle) and personally handloaded ammunition. He mentioned supply was not an issue as domestically made 5.56 was available. I did not press for details for opsec/persec reasons. Could be FORT, may be something else... I have no doubt the vast majority of 5.56 being used in Ukraine is imported though. |
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Posted: 3/1/2023 5:39:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whoever told you to use a 0.220" die is wrong. 0.221-0.2215 is correct. Bullet weight also plays a part. 5.45 AK barrels don't play well in the accuracy department with heavier bullets. That would be CH4D that told me 0.220. I was pretty sure they were wrong too. I told them as much but bought the die because I can open it up but not make it smaller. |
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Posted: 3/2/2023 7:00:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be CH4D that told me 0.220. I was pretty sure they were wrong too. I told them as much but bought the die because I can open it up but not make it smaller. Maybe they were thinking about the 5.6x39mm Russian cartridge, which is also called the ".220 Russian", and didn't do their homework. Of course, the .220 Russian doesn't use .220" projectiles either... |
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Posted: 3/2/2023 5:30:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they were thinking about the 5.6x39mm Russian cartridge, which is also called the ".220 Russian", and didn't do their homework. Of course, the .220 Russian doesn't use .220" projectiles either... Not when they sent 5.45 brass sizing dies in the same order. I even told them 5.45 projos are 0.2215. Now I gotta figure out how to open it up. |
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