Golden Tiger 7.62x39 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Golden Tiger 7.62x39 (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/10/2008 3:16:10 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I was looking around for some 7.62x39 GT and i came across a dealer in AZ, i ordered 1k and he said it would be $38 shipping to the east coast, $217 total, i said forget it, then i found Cope's and on the website it was $169.99, so i called up and asked for shipping charges and the girl says $18 so i make the order and i ask for the total and it comes to $10 more, so i ask her why? and she says 179.99 plus $18 shipping and i tell her the website says $169.99, and she says oops we forgot to change it, then i hear what sounds like her boss in the background and he says give it to him for $169.99, now thats good customer service, plus i ordered it monday and i received it today thursday...

You must be REAL close to Ohio if shipping was only $18.

I paid over $20 to ship one case to Wisconsin.

Still a great deal. Copes does have GREAT customer service.

Posted: 4/10/2008 3:52:08 PM EDT

[#2]

I think it's real suspicious (greedy). I called up last Friday to order 2K rounds. They've (edit-pretty much)had it in stock for a year and it's been on sale for 169.99 the whole time. Suddenly I call Thursday and they say we ran out today out AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN WE'RE GETTING MORE IN. I called back Friday and they said "Still no idea when we'll get any more in". Then it shows up 1 day later for $10 more a case! That's the suspicious part. Any good business knows when they have shipments of their #1 selling item coming in.

Posted: 4/10/2008 4:55:16 PM EDT

[#3]

You might want to check over the EE for an overview of the Cope's GT availability timeline ......

Posted: 4/11/2008 6:02:59 PM EDT

[#4]

I think Copes just upped the prices on their Golden Tiger 7.63.39 to $179.95 + Shipping. My case just came in

Posted: 4/13/2008 7:40:03 AM EDT

[#5]

Here's one I just cut open

I suppose this means that it has the "poison" attribute of the 5.45 but still the knock down power of the 7.62? This would seem to be the ultimate round.

Posted: 4/13/2008 5:57:00 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Here's one I just cut open
i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii167/kingfish01/goldentiger.jpg?t=1208101178

I suppose this means that it has the "poison" attribute of the 5.45 but still the knock down power of the 7.62? This would seem to be the ultimate round.

Yesss!!!!

The utimate round!

Posted: 4/14/2008 7:14:22 AM EDT

[#7]

I asked earlier, but does anyone know of any testing that's been done to see if the hollow nose of the bullet will actually cause it to yaw and tumble?

It seems to me that comparing the 7.62 to the 5.45 is apples and oranges. The bullets are shaped differently, have different sectional densities, and are fired at different velocities. Just because this 7.62 has a hollow nose like the 5.45 doesn't necessarily mean it's going to perform like the 5.45 in tissue. Sure it's possible, but I wouldn't just automatically make that assumption.

So I'm just wondering if any tests have been done.

Posted: 4/14/2008 8:15:38 AM EDT

[#8]

GT is FMJBT so acording to theory boat tail bullets are supose to be more accurate. That may account for some of everyones experience. I usually remove the bullets from the case at over 2000 FPS so as that dosent give me much time for investigate, Im not familiar with different brands projectiles. Does anyone know if wolf Black box, M.C., Silver or brown Bear use boat tails?

Posted: 4/14/2008 11:25:30 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
GT is FMJBT so acording to theory boat tail bullets are supose to be more accurate. That may account for some of everyones experience. I usually remove the bullets from the case at over 2000 FPS so as that dosent give me much time for investigate, Im not familiar with different brands projectiles. Does anyone know if wolf Black box, M.C., Silver or brown Bear use boat tails?

I'm pretty sure that GT is the only common 7.62x39 boat tail bullet. The rest have a flat base. I could be wrong though.

Posted: 4/14/2008 2:02:58 PM EDT

[#10]

If the weight is in the back, it'll twist around immediately upon impact.

Quoted:
I asked earlier, but does anyone know of any testing that's been done to see if the hollow nose of the bullet will actually cause it to yaw and tumble?

It seems to me that comparing the 7.62 to the 5.45 is apples and oranges. The bullets are shaped differently, have different sectional densities, and are fired at different velocities. Just because this 7.62 has a hollow nose like the 5.45 doesn't necessarily mean it's going to perform like the 5.45 in tissue. Sure it's possible, but I wouldn't just automatically make that assumption.

So I'm just wondering if any tests have been done.

Posted: 4/14/2008 5:44:46 PM EDT

[#11]

I like Copes, but I won't pay more for it from them than someone else sells for. Since pretty much everybody else has a seemingly endless supply of it, and it's at most 195 shipped per K, you and I are in luck.

Quoted:
I think it's real suspicious (greedy). I called up last Friday to order 2K rounds. They've (edit-pretty much)had it in stock for a year and it's been on sale for 169.99 the whole time. Suddenly I call Thursday and they say we ran out today out AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN WE'RE GETTING MORE IN. I called back Friday and they said "Still no idea when we'll get any more in". Then it shows up 1 day later for $10 more a case! That's the suspicious part. Any good business knows when they have shipments of their #1 selling item coming in.

Posted: 4/14/2008 7:05:17 PM EDT

[#12]

You're right. Copes new pricing pretty much bumped them out of the running on the cheapest source.

Posted: 4/14/2008 7:52:36 PM EDT

[#13]

height=8

Quoted:
If the weight is in the back, it'll twist around immediately upon impact.

Not trying to be an ass or anything, I just honestly don't know.

So caliber, bullet shape, sectional density, velocity, etc, don't matter? As long as the bullet's weight is concentrated in the rear, it'll start to tumble immediately?

Posted: 4/15/2008 2:20:06 AM EDT

[#14]

Posted: 4/15/2008 7:22:11 AM EDT

[#15]

Kalmah, in a nutshell, no. What it does is change line, or tumble, on impact. Depending on what it strikes the nose collapses. In a soft target like water jugs it mushrooms. Striking hard targets it flattens and causes the rd to veer randomly. At least from our none professional testing that is how they have performed. Different from standard ball rds.

Posted: 4/15/2008 4:19:03 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If the weight is in the back, it'll twist around immediately upon impact.

Not trying to be an ass or anything, I just honestly don't know.

So caliber, bullet shape, sectional density, velocity, etc, don't matter? As long as the bullet's weight is concentrated in the rear, it'll start to tumble immediately?

Wrong. All rifle bullets will yaw (eventually)when the bullet strikes something. The GT yaws more quickly because the lead moves forward into the empty space (making the bullet front heavy) when the bullet strikes something.

I know this because I've tested the GT against other bullets.

Posted: 4/15/2008 7:02:14 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
GT is FMJBT so acording to theory boat tail bullets are supose to be more accurate. That may account for some of everyones experience. I usually remove the bullets from the case at over 2000 FPS so as that dosent give me much time for investigate, Im not familiar with different brands projectiles. Does anyone know if wolf Black box, M.C., Silver or brown Bear use boat tails?

BT bullets are not more accurate - they only retain more energy downrange. At the ranges and velocity that 7.62x39 is used, the BT makes no difference.

Regards,
dcat

Posted: 4/15/2008 7:32:43 PM EDT

[#18]

height=8

Quoted:
height=8

Quoted:
If the weight is in the back, it'll twist around immediately upon impact.

Not trying to be an ass or anything, I just honestly don't know.

So caliber, bullet shape, sectional density, velocity, etc, don't matter? As long as the bullet's weight is concentrated in the rear, it'll start to tumble immediately?

Wrong. All rifle bullets will yaw (eventually)when the bullet strikes something. The GT yaws more quickly because the lead moves forward into the empty space (making the bullet front heavy) when the bullet strikes something.

I know this because I've tested the GT against other bullets.

This is what I've been looking for. Just to see if anyone has done any testing to see how they perform.

Posted: 4/16/2008 2:52:37 AM EDT

[#19]

The Russian fmj bullet with the empty space in the nose yaws more quickly than any other 7.62x39 fmj bullet I have tested.
I also tested some IMI bullets that were patterned on the Yugo M67(?) bullet. This bullet was the second quickest to yaw.
Wolf 122 fmj came in a distant third.
Last is Chinese steel core (a copy of Soviet M43). It was difficult to find any evidence that the bullet had started to yaw before it struck the back stop.

I have not seen any formal test of the GT bullet, but my results for the IMI bullet and the Chinese M43 copy are consistent with published results, if you're a fan of gelatin tests.

Posted: 4/16/2008 3:34:58 AM EDT

[#20]

Poly, I have not done any formal test shots, just our usual shooting at various targets. Water jugs, paper on plywood, and hanging steel sheet beyond 300meters. The most dramatic indication of unpredictable veering after impact by the hollow nose type bullets is seen in the hanging steel target. Standard ball type FMJs and steel cores rebound almost directly into the ground in front of the target. The hollow nose FMJs rebound to the side of the line of fire, sometimes as far as 3-4 feet. And they rebound directly into the ground along LoF. No pattern. And there is minimal movement of the target, it weighs 500 lbs.

This thread has set me to a thinkin'. I would love to see how this behave when fired into structures and vehicles, how do they behave when striking multi layered solid targets. Have to suggest this to the crew, get some stuff together and try it out. Always looking for an excuse to shoot some more!

Posted: 4/16/2008 11:12:15 PM EDT

[#21]

Thats it! I'm doing the side by side test.

I was going to look at this thread to see the consensus on GT was. But after reading all three pages I am now planning on setting up a side by side test with the boat tailed GT and Wolf.

Help me out.

Besides using the same gun and the same mag for both rounds...

What wolf should I put up against the GT?
What should I be shooting at?
I can get my hands on plywood, water jugs, redbricks, An old stove, 100 Maxim Magazines, 50 old playboy mags, misc car mags.

What range?

What else should I take note of during the test.

Oh yes there will be ~~Blood~~ Pictures!

Posted: 4/17/2008 3:14:19 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
You're right. Copes new pricing pretty much bumped them out of the running on the cheapest source.

So who is the cheapest source?

Posted: 4/17/2008 4:07:13 AM EDT

[#23]

H2O, that all depends on where you are and who you are buying from. Ammo prices are rising, and buying from online sources gives you the compare and contrast option. Here in western PA, where we'uns are clinging to our religion and guns whilst being all bitter and such, 7.62x39 is relatively cheap. Box of 20 varies between $4.95 and $6.00. Cheaper if you buy in bulk. I usually get GT for $4.00per 20, buying 5 boxes at a time.

mikevans, sounds like you got the bases covered. If you can get a velocimeter to compare initial muzzle velocity that would be a nice addition. As for bullet behavior at impact you gonna have to go the gel block route. Shooting water filled containers, or sand filled containers does not really give good comparisons.

Posted: 4/17/2008 4:15:31 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
H2O, that all depends on where you are and who you are buying from. Ammo prices are rising, and buying from online sources gives you the compare and contrast option. Here in western PA, where we'uns are clinging to our religion and guns whilst being all bitter and such, 7.62x39 is relatively cheap. Box of 20 varies between $4.95 and $6.00. Cheaper if you buy in bulk. I usually get GT for $4.00per 20, buying 5 boxes at a time.

So buying GT @ $3.40 per box of 20 was a good deal ~ thanks

Posted: 4/17/2008 4:47:16 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

What wolf should I put up against the GT?
What should I be shooting at?
I can get my hands on plywood, water jugs, redbricks, An old stove, 100 Maxim Magazines, 50 old playboy mags, misc car mags.

What range?

What are you trying to learn?

Shooting half a dozen bullets of each type at plywood at the range of 50 yards, will give you a good idea of how the bullets perform when they hit plywood at a range of 50 yards.
It won't tell you anything else.
The same holds true for everything else you listed.

Posted: 4/17/2008 4:52:22 AM EDT

[#26]

DAMN!!! Where did you find that price and do they have more?!?!?!

Posted: 4/17/2008 5:06:49 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
DAMN!!! Where did you find that price and do they have more?!?!?!

No more at that price.

I found an old price on the vendors web site and got them on the phone to verify.
They verified & honored the price and corrected it right after I placed my phone order.

Posted: 4/17/2008 5:15:41 AM EDT

[#28]

Oh, well. I just started buying 7.62x39 8 months ago, was shooting other people's rds before that. Bought an RPK, Romanian last summer. Before that I was always on the prod for 7.62 NATO. I have a Garand chambered for that, have a goodly pile of it still.

Posted: 4/17/2008 5:33:16 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Before that I was always on the prod for 7.62 NATO.
I have a Garand chambered for that, have a goodly pile of it still.

Having a pile of 7.62 x 51 NATO is a good thang

Posted: 4/17/2008 7:05:29 AM EDT

[#30]

height=8

Quoted:
height=8

Quoted:
You're right. Copes new pricing pretty much bumped them out of the running on the cheapest source.

So who is the cheapest source?

Both Ammoman and Ammo Connection have GT for $195/1000 shipped.

That's the best price I know of right now. If anyone knows of any better deals, please speak up.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Golden Tiger 7.62x39 (Page 2 of 2)

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