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Link Posted: 10/8/2005 4:53:15 PM EDT
I wouldn't buy from them again either.  Getting them to replace a dangerously defective Polish underfolder kit was like pulling teeth and involved weeks of unpleasant (to say the least) phone calls.
The replacement I received was only slightly better (defective, but not drilled into the barrel) and they won -- I don't have the energy to fight them about it.  I'm only out the shipping -- because it was a kit there was no FFL involved.
I still wonder if a gun with a massively buggered up trunion hole will be safe to shoot.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 6:27:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By donovan007007:

"Older people dealing in firearms are complete pricks and you can smell it on them from a mile away"

Go Fuck Yourself !!!!

jugrunner said that ..................
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 6:50:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jugrunner:
Originally Posted By donovan007007:

"Older people dealing in firearms are complete pricks and you can smell it on them from a mile away"

Go Fuck Yourself !!!!

jugrunner said that ..................


Roger that!  All these yardbirds can go fuvk themselves
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 6:59:13 PM EDT
Basically, these juveniles don't know how to make a deal.  When it bites them in the ass, they whine on the forums.  Thank God they are not in the Service.  They don't have my back.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:06:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:
Basically, these juveniles don't know how to make a deal.  When it bites them in the ass, they whine on the forums.  Thank God they are not in the Service.  They don't have my back.




Seriously you have to be daft.  How is INFORMING OTHER MEMBERS OF A WEBSITE THAT A VENDOR IS DOING SOMETHING SHADY bad? If i bought a fucking F150 and it exploded i would most definetly tell people about it. If i bought a computer and it didnt work and i was given the run around i would tell people about it. If i went to a dr and he cut off the wrong leg i would tell people about it.

The original poster is not being unreasonable. The company sent him a DEFECTIVE gun and he wants it to be repaired under warranty so he doesnt have to pay an xfer fee twice. So explain to me how that is whining? Please i really would like to know how looking out for other members of a community is whining.  Please tell me how now wanting to spend more money because someone sent him a broken weapon whining?

Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:23:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:
Basically, these juveniles don't know how to make a deal.  When it bites them in the ass, they whine on the forums.  Thank God they are not in the Service.  They don't have my back.



What an idiot!!!
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:27:33 PM EDT
Hey..... Where did Military Gun Supply Go ? Joeken Joe would at least try to smooze people on a Complaint Thread.   MGS since you posted in this thread,    Lets see you make it right.  It's time to shit or get off the pot.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:29:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:
Basically, these juveniles don't know how to make a deal.  When it bites them in the ass, they whine on the forums.  Thank God they are not in the Service.  They don't have my back.



What makes you think some of us aren't in the Service? Ever think about that?
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:33:17 PM EDT
Read the thread.  I assume you can read.  I can tell you have never served.  Please don't.  We don't need your type.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:42:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2005 7:55:24 PM EDT by 1Gunner]
Serving has nothing to do with this
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:31:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 12:44:38 PM EDT by ru4freedom]

Originally Posted By LightSpeed2:
Hey..... Where did Military Gun Supply Go ? Joeken Joe would at least try to smooze people on a Complaint Thread.   MGS since you posted in this thread,    Lets see you make it right.  It's time to shit or get off the pot.



Dito....., where did he go???

I give Eric of MGS credit for entering this thread..., when I tried to handle it by phone call I got hung up on!!  So lets see if he will step up to the plate & take care of business out here where a great deal of the AK buying public can see the results!!

I kinda' thinking a portion of his livelihood may depend on it!!

I hope everyone follwing this thread understands that I am not wanting a "Perfect AK-74"
there is no such animal!  I am only wanting one somewhat correctly built.  The builder of this one knew without a doubt he made a major build error, he then disquised it & put in on the retail market anyway!! That in my opinion is as Un-American as it gets!!  I too am a buiness owner & I have never...., I repeat NEVER passed along anything.., product or service, that I knew was flawed!!  

And regardless of what DeltaDipShit214  thinks..., I am as American as they come, and as honest as the day is long!!  

I only expect from others what I believe others expect of me!!  Nothing more!!

Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:35:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2005 10:26:34 PM EDT by ru4freedom]

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:
Read the thread.  I assume you can read.  I can tell you have never served.  Please don't.  We don't need your type.



DeltaDelturd214:

I just thank god & country that most of our Service Men & Women do not suffer from the same syndrone you do

Can'tUnderstand NormalThinkingSyndrome..., or we would all be in a world of shit!!!

If you are in the Military??, you must be a REMF,  or someone would have fragged your sorry ass by now!!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:09:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:28:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 5:07:53 PM EDT by _DR]
I have bought a lot of stuff and several firearms from MGS. I have always been satifisfied. I fact a just bought a surplus pistol at the market hall gun show last weekend, and have been very happy with it. The guy is not a thief. His store is about 1 hour from where I work.  Sorry you had a bad experience but I also personally know several others who have bought from him and been happy. I generally buy from him at gun shows or in his store hands-on. MGS is not crooked in my experience.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:53:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:

Originally Posted By donovan007007:
thats what you get when dealing with complete and kit-built guns, someone elses mistakes.

I live near MGS and I have only dealt with them a few times, I called up and gave them my business
tax info and got nothing but good service, I get dealer prices for my own hobbie and a few resale sales.
I just pay the taxes on stuff I personally buy.

I can deal with them face-to-face if you want, I live only 45 minutes away and go there to buy rare militia.


They are high in  prices but got rare stuff if you need it.



but you are right, he is an old codgy bastard and it comes with the terrotory. Older people dealing in firearms are complete pricks and you can smell it on them from a mile away.



Gee, I wonder if you will ever get old? Actually, Guy just got back from the sand box and he's not old.  I have delt with him and had zero problems.  Also, I got two builds from EliteFirearms and they are rock solid builds.  Also, it's been my practice to ask up front what the return policy is before I order anything.  I guess it's just because I am old that I hang up on people that engage in hysterical screaming fits.  There is generally two sides to any story.




Let me guess, you're on the payroll?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:15:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 9:17:39 AM EDT by MochaJava]
If I lived in Texas rather than thousands of miles away, I would have involved the Texas Attorney General for MGS selling a gun with drilled into barrels  -- a condition that they were aware of (evidently, I was not the only victim; there is a group buy gone bad thread on it) and an accident waiting to happen.  Try selling defective airplane parts and see if you stay out of jail!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:19:28 AM EDT
What kind of receiver was it built on?  Was it OOW because I hear that they are too long and have probelms with the cover staying on.  
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:28:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 12:02:42 PM EDT by ru4freedom]
Yes,
     It is built on a OOW receiver....., but most competent AK smiths are aware of the fact that these receivers require modifications for the finished product to fit & funtion properly!!
We all know that AK's are rarely.., if ever perfect. But this is a not a build error that a reputable builder would make, and then disguise the problem and put it on the retail market!!

 It could very well be that MGS did not have first hand knowledge of these flawed builds.  But if that is indeed the case, shouldn't they tell us who the dishonest builder is so we can have a heads-up??

Or am I totally out of line here???



Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:41:39 AM EDT
I totally agree with you and if it was me you would sound liek a saint right now!  i was just wondering becasue I bought a OOW receiver and I was wondering what the quality was , thanks.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:14:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 1:00:27 PM EDT by ru4freedom]
   I have 2 other AK's built on OOW Receivers. Both were built by Ohio Rapid Fire and turned out awesome!!!
   In my opinon the quality of the OOW receiver seems to be very good...., as long as they are tweeked properly by someone who knows how to do the tweek'in!!

  From what I have heard, each brand of AK receiver has it's own unique problem that needs to be addressed by the builder to achive the best result!!  Un-addressed.., these "unique problems" can become unique nightmares!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:31:19 PM EDT
when I was looking into buying a PMKMS parts kit from Bob at Akron Armory, I also saw that MGS was selling them.  I also noticed MGS stole Bob and Dan's photos of the Tantals and PMKMS kits...

I've seen several threads on the quality of parts kits received by MGS.

From my observations, I can't say that ru4freedom or einheit or anyone else for that matter is going overboard and acting out of the ordinary.  Anyone who is in charge of customer phone calls should NEVER hand up on a customer.  No matter how fucking retarded and inexperienced the person might be, they should at least get the caller's contact info and pass on a message on to someone competent, not hang up and let the owner or supervisor deal with this shit later.

Fuckers won't ever get my business.  
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 3:46:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 3:56:44 PM EDT
My suggestion, talk to Dean at MGS, he took care of me when I had an issue and was on top of things.  I think there is a person there who doesn't know the meaning of customer serivce, but Dean does.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:30:05 PM EDT
I got the shaft from MSG the first time I ever did business with them.....Swore I would never go there again. Guy blatantly lied about THREE different aspects of a firearm I got there, before I was better versed in this brand of firearm.

However, my gunsmith kept mentioning them to me...so two years later I gave them a second chance thinking that maybe the liar that screwed me the first time had been fired and that my first experience was unfortunate but not typical for the store..

Guess what...

THEY TOTALLY LIED AND SCREWED ME AGAIN....however they did unapologetically refund my money when I discovered that they misrepresented the part I bought.

I should have known when I casually noticed that they had cheaper scopes for sale in more expensive scope boxes. They were the same BRAND, just lesser models in boxes of more expensive models. If I wern't familar with how to identlfy these scopes, I wouldn't have known better. I'm sure people bought these thinking that they were getting the scope as described on the end of the box....but ended up with something else. Not sure I could say that a gun store owner made this mistake BY ACCIDENT..

Anyway, I bought the part I needed anyway, then discovered when I got home that they lied to me. Drove all the way back over there and got my money back from the cocky clerk.

Then, when I posted my greivance here, the owner of the store BLAMED IT ON ME saying that I should have known that the part wasn't what it was sold as because it was so much cheaper than what a real one would sell for....even though it was used.

What did Bush say? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.. So, I take the blame for going to their shop again.

The firearms business is usually populated by people that are honest and forthright in their dealings. It is very dissappointing to see a company that makes a living thru misrepresentation and dishonesty.

Military Gun Supply is DEFINETELY a company that is devoid of any moral or ethical encumbrances..

They have been hearing this for years and refuse to view their business dealings in any different way. That means that they know they are crooks and liars and sleep just fine. No guilty feelings at all..

So....I buy whatever I need via internet and usually find it so much cheaper than MGS prices that the shipping makes it a wash. Even if its not, I would still gladly pay more for something elsewhere than do business EVER AGAIN with the liars at military gun supply.....

BUYER BEWARE!

MILITARY GUN SUPPLY IS AS CROOKED AS A DOGS BACK LEG AND TWICE AS DIRTY!!!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:02:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 11:45:57 PM EDT by ru4freedom]
Good to know!

I'd have to say ther is a definate pattern here!!

Thanks for sharing your experience for the benefit of the all of us!!!!

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:14:20 PM EDT
ru4freedom: the Federal Trade Commission can help you out on this issue. The FTC issues rules on the interstate sale of ....Well, everything! And they will enforce those rules, but only if someone files a complaint with them, alledging that a vendor broke those rules.
I think deltaturd works for MGS.

OJF
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:09:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:42:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 7:45:08 AM EDT by _DR]
I have always found MGS reasonable to deal with and will continue to to business with them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:21:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 9:39:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 10:32:39 AM EDT by ru4freedom]
This will be my last post on this matter!!



Originally Posted By militarygunsupply:
Gentlemen,

I personally did not overhear the conversation but several other of my employees did.  It was reported to me that Guy did offer to issue a call tag to repair or refund the firearm.  When the customer starting hurling obcenities at him he did hang up on him as I have instructed my employees to do in that situation.   The poster of this thread had those options in hand before he started this thread.  He apparantly did not think this was fair or good enough and thus this thread.

My company will will always be fair and professional in dealing with its customers.  Unfortunatly that does not ensure avoiding situations like this as all companies wo do business here endure them at some time.  We will make mistakes on ocassion and people will get mad at us for this but we will be here to honor what ever warranty, exchange or refund policy applies.  

Sir,

If you want to hash it out on the forums that is fine.  Once again I am offering to issue you a call tag and repair the dust cover or refund your purchase price.  Please let me know what you prefer.

Eric Robb  




Now he has other employees hearing things!!  The only obscenity I used during the phone call was when I said, and I quote:  "you can't fuck with people like this with the internet out there..., a guy could really hurt your business if he puts on the internet how he's been screwed!"  and it was not hurled...,  it was said very "matter of fact!!"   At least I walk the walk!!

The whole bunch of them must be full-O-Sh*t!!

First off..., I will not return the rifle for a refund of the "purchase price" and be out $58 for the original Shipping & FFL fee..., that would be going backwards!!

And I will certainly not return the rifle to have the "dust cover repaired"  Anyone who has read this thread knows that there is nothing wrong with the dust cover!! It is the build that is flawed..., not the dust cover!!

I'm sure in MGS's mind this is a fair resolution..., but I do not find it acceptable..., I'm being offered another can of worms!! Either way I loose, either money on a return, or a different disguise for the same problem on a repair!!  

So I will cut my losses and move on!!

Future searchs on this site for "Military Gun Supply" will pull up this thread, and the searcher can come to their own conclusions!!

With that in mind....,  I think we can say "Mission Accomplished!!"

Thanks to all who got involved in this thread!!  Yes................, even you DeltaDelta214!!

RU4FREEDOM---out
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 9:44:33 AM EDT
It looks as though the customer is the Quality Control Technician for MGS and must  fork over shipping and FFL transfer fees himself.  

MGS ought to try a little harder and not let the customer become the QC and have to report back to them before the rifles are made correctly.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:27:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 12:53:09 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
It looks as though the customer is the Quality Control Technician for MGS and must  fork over shipping and FFL transfer fees himself.  

MGS ought to try a little harder and not let the customer become the QC and have to report back to them before the rifles are made correctly.



You will find many dealers have this policy, very few will actually pay shipping on returns regardless of the reason. FFL fees are not the original dealer's responsibility. MGS offered to refund the purchase price or repair the rifle.  I have had to eat shipping and fees before, I just chalk it up to the price of doing business on the internet or mail order and consider myself lucky enough to get my refund if desired.

These are things you need to think about before placing an order, ask the vendor what their policies are on returns and repair, and then decide whether you think it is still worth it instead of just charging into a sale while making blind assumptions about how you think they should conduct business.

If you don't like this reality, you can always pay the markup at your local brick and mortar store or wait for a gun show. I have bought a lot of surplus guns on the internet from many vendors, and I can tell you this is not  bad. Wait until you buy from a dealer that sends you a dog, and accepts no refunds or returns. I can tell you from experience how much that sucks.

Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:55:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 12:24:09 PM EDT by longhorn789]

It looks as though the customer is the Quality Control Technician for MGS


Sounds about right..

This isn't the first time I have seen a thread about MSG poor business dealings here on this site.

They have multiple threads, over the course of several years, started about how they screwed people over...

This is far from an isolated incident.

Why aren't they on the "Bad Guys" list in the Negative Feedback section of the Equipment Exchange forum? They DO post items there from time to time..

What gives?

Link Posted: 10/10/2005 12:15:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By longhorn789:

It looks as though the customer is the Quality Control Technician for MGS


Sounds about right..




Well let's see.  Ford just recalled 300,000 cars and trucks (they have QC dudes); colt ( more QC guys)has had recalls and on and on and on and on.  Shit happens.  MSG has policies like most vendors.  The person who started this thread admits in his last post that he had threatened MSG with the powers of the internet and is intent on damaging MSG, before he tried to resolve the issue.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 12:20:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 12:40:48 PM EDT by DeltaDelta214]

Originally Posted By oldjarheadfart:
ru4freedom: the Federal Trade Commission can help you out on this issue. The FTC issues rules on the interstate sale of ....Well, everything! And they will enforce those rules, but only if someone files a complaint with them, alledging that a vendor broke those rules.
I think deltaturd works for MGS.

OJF


I'm a retired Air Force Officer.  I don't work anymore.  DeltaDelta 214= DD Form 214, Certicate of Discharge from Active Duty.  You aren't very perceptive are you?
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 12:27:50 PM EDT

I think deltaturd works for MGS.



I'm a retired Air Force Officer. I don't work anymore. You aren't very perceptive are you?


Ok guys...Let's keep this civil amongst us....
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 12:46:22 PM EDT
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=76521

My issue was a minor one, but it was still deceptive selling in my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 12:59:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=76521

My issue was a minor one, but it was still deceptive selling in my opinion.



Did they advertise it was a genuine Russian sling, or did you just make that assumption?
From the thread it looks like you made the assumption.
If that is the case then I don't see how that is deceptive. The sling looks looks fine.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 1:27:28 PM EDT
"dust cover repaired"



That's a great fix.    Diamond Dave strikes again!  Hmmmm....DD
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 1:45:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
"dust cover repaired"



That's a great fix.    Diamond Dave strikes again!  Hmmmm....DD



DeltaDelta214 means Form DD214, Certificate of Discharge from Active Duty.  You would probably know that if you ever served in the military.  DD didn't do the build.  At MSG, builds are now in-house
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 1:55:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 1:57:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 2:00:45 PM EDT by einheit13]
Taggard (sp) built them. Thats was the delay in getting mine, so said Guy. Don't know what or who a Taggard is but he goofed.................I'm sending mine (along with my XD) to Global military gunsmithing and let Ken coat them. I'll worry about the top cover later.

I can complain about MGS, but Erik stands by his warrenty 100% Do I feel ripped, a little, but it shoots its ass off with no hiccups. This the only AK I currently own, and who knows if I get another it may come from MGS, but I will use the three day inspection to scrutonize it before I pay the transfer fee. If its flawed I'll send it back. Learning experience, yes, but I cannot grip too much, I could have bought from Atlantic Firearms, and I will never do that again...........I'm new here and agree with the mod, pissing match is over. (hope that doesn't get in trouble)
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 4:07:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 4:45:23 PM EDT by TheRealSundance]

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
"dust cover repaired"



That's a great fix.    Diamond Dave strikes again!  Hmmmm....DD



DeltaDelta214 means Form DD214, Certificate of Discharge from Active Duty.  You would probably know that if you ever served in the military.  DD didn't do the build.  At MSG, builds are now in-house




Really?  Wow! Thanks for the help. And for taking the time to explain it for a second time in this thread. You know so much.  What does AAA mean?  How about SAM?


Look like MSG builds 'em like DD.  Thanks for the info.




ETA:  Thanks for your service.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 4:59:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DeltaDelta214:
DeltaDelta214 means Form DD214, Certificate of Discharge from Active Duty.  You would probably know that if you ever served in the military.



You do realize that there are plenty of people here who have served in the military.  Somehow they don't feel the need to put it in every one of their posts.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:24:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 6:24:10 PM EDT by krinkfreak]
This thread has run its course.  No need for personal attacks between members.
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