Hi there...

i've already posted some pictures of it in another board, but maybe I can gather more information about it in here.

It's my AK-47 , with Vietnamese markings. It's a milled receiver, and everything is very well finished on it.

It's the real deal, and I really love it. Still, I don't know where it was produced.. North Korea, China, or maybe Russia. The high quality of the refinishing make me think it was not a cheap war production...

anyway.. here are the pictures. Let me know what you think !















and the food I gave her..

The standard from which all will be measured...BEAUTIFUL!!!!

   

hoooly crap, that's nice!

Very nice!

Not fair! Not Fair! Not fair!

Just curious. Why would a Vietnamese AK47 have "Vietnam" engraved in English on the receiver? I am pretty sure an original Vietnamese AK47 would have been imported from Russia and later China with Russian/Chinese markings.

Hee-Hee!
Nice job debunking this.

That is a good question !

for your information, the selector also shows "arab" numbers... 0 30 1

the full marking is :  

VIET-NAM
1990 (circled star with II inside) and serial

I believe, from what I was told, that the gun transited by the UK... But I am no AK specialist..

I would love to have one. Very nice rifle and love the milled receiver.

It is a nice Type 1 Russian style rifle with whisper holes. Please take a picture the selector markings so I can see how they are engraved. It might give us a better clue to its origin.

Nice rifle though!

It is a copy of a Russian type 3 AK-47......... not russian, possibly Hungarian

there are no Russian style markings on the left or right side of the receiver.

normally a Type 3 russian will have a triangle with a arrow in it on the left side of the receiver and some Cyrillic symbols.

Nice, whether the engraving is original or not.

What country is he in?  He isn't listed as US.

Is it live? Still able to fire in full-auto?


What do you have to do to get one over there?

It looks exactly like my Polytech Legend which is said to be an exact copy of the very early milled Russian AK's by the Polytech factory which would seem to make this rifle a early Russian AK?

Must be the computer screen I have but I can't make out anything beyond blurry pictures.  What is the Arsenal mark?  What other engravings are on the rifle?  Got any clear pictures in good lighting?  What country are you actually residing in?

I'm not officially calling BS, but I'd like some more close-ups. The wood/markings aren't right for a Russian T3, the charging handle on the bolt definately doesn't look right and the rear sight looks funky. I'm not an expert on Chinese guns...I've certainly never seen "VIET-NAM" (in English) on any real T3. If it is real, for the love of god get a nice Chinese mag or Russian slab side (depending on country of origin) to go with it.  

Airsfot ??? I hope you are not making fun of me.. Btw, I am in Switzerland. (that is the flag you see)

If you were in Switzerland, we could play airsoft with it, but i'd just hope you run fast.. ;)

it's 9pm here, so night.. sucks to make better pictures, but I tried. I will make other tomorrow if I get the chance to get the sunshine..








I am a gun collector, and I am not fooling you with airsoft junks.. (the only airsoft things in those pictures are one aimpoint and the Leupold Mk4. Eotech, ACOG and 1st aimpoint are originals. Couldnt afford a 2dn aimpoint and the Leupold yet)

Here is the markings you asked for. For obvious reasons I only blurred the serial.

it's the best I could get out of my light and digital camera, and without a tripod.

Looks like a fine rifle to me, I'd trade any of my current AKs for it!

I figured you weren't in the United States but guys were going to call bullshit because they didn't take the time to realize you were in another country.

I'd say Chinese if it came via Vietnam, but who knows and any engravings may have been done later.  My computer monitor sucks but I will try one of my other computers and see if I can see it better.  

If you can take clear closeups of any engravings/arsenal markings and post them it would help determine exactly what you have.


The marking under the Vietnam, is it a star in a circle?  I deleted my list of Arsenal marks so I will have to look it up.

Yeah no shit huh!?

- Clint

Wow.  Ye have little faith and it seems some of us haven't been paying attention to the technical information.  .  

It's definately a real variant, although little seen by Western eyes here and probably many members here as it doesn't pop-up much.  I'll let member Stottman provide his photos of another one, if he gets over here to see the message.  

It's an unusual variant because it incorporates some features from a few countries like China, Russian, and East Germany to name some obvious few.   The sling loop on the left side of the receiver is of an East German, not Chinese/Russian, style but it could be that Vietnam purchased much of East Germany's surplus Kalashnikov parts in late 1989/early 1990 when they disintegrated (hence the "Vietnamese" Kalashnikov bayonets with the East German bayonet parts/features).  

Also, the wood buttstock has the Russian-style "line through the square" mark denoting an arsenal replacement buttstock.    



Such countries can often contract out with other countries for weapons, or such was the case of Iraq with their Tabuk rifles, parts of weapons and assemble them in-country themselves.



Not all Russian Type III AK/AKS milled rifles had the Izhmash "arrow in the triangle" stamp on the left side of its receiver or the Cyrillic.  Not every letter in the Russian alphabet is the weird Cyrillic.




Not quite.  Look close at your Polytech Legend rifle and compare it to the photos.  It's close but there's a difference or two.



The wood/markings could very well be Russian as early Kalashnikovs used hardwood as well as laminated wood, and also used a checkered grip in some cases.  Also, look at the markings on the wood - similar if not the same as the Russian re-arsenal mark.  The bolt is similar to Chinese, the rear sight base more similar to a Russian or Bulgarian milled rear sight base, and the rear sight is similar to Chinese for a milled rifle.  Not sure what's "funky" that you see about it.

Also, a regular Russian or Chinese stamped magazine would be great in it.  A Russian slabside looks nice with the milled rifles but would be more "correct" in a Type I or Type II rifle.  But seeing how this rifle, and others I've seen, seem to be more recent production rifles, I'd go with the Russian or Chinese stamped magazine.

yes... the marking is a circled star with two horizontal bars in it, looking like a 11 but its just two bars, not two "1" .

The only thing I may now about this gun is that it was imported throught the UK.. but from where exactly remain a mystery to me.

Am I seeing things that aren't actually there?
Looks to be a star in a circle which is used by North Korea.

that is what I thought from long time.. What is strange is that a friend of mine bought from the same collector, the same day, another AK like this, certified from North Korea. But he had North Korean or Chinese markings (letter/symbols) on it (cannot tell the difference, cant read both). Both on the selector and around the serial.

If it was imported through England, was it a dewatt or had it been at one time and then put back in working order?

Sometimes those rifles will have had the markings changed etc. to make them appear to be of a certain country of origin.

Also, I think that an AK imported to North Korea might have been altered with Korean markings sometimes.

What do the selector markings appear to be?

Vietnam also uses a "star in the circle" marking, as well, but the Vietnamese markings has gliphs inside the star.  Also, North Korea puts their arsenal marking on the receiver of the rifle, not on the rear sight base.  

Unfortunately cannot tell anything about her past in the UK.. I got it from a big collector and he had legal ways to get guns that I cannot even dream about..

Anyway, the gun has not been permanently alterated in any way.

The selector markings are very clear.

0  30  1



actually there is a || inside the star..

Okay students...your history lesson today is about numbers.

The OP is correct in calling those numbers Arab numbers. When I was in school, they were called Arabic numerals, same thing. The modern day numbers we use and you see in his pics were introduced to Europe in the 10th Century by western Arabs. The modern Arab numbers are actually Hindu numbers in origin, but usually associated with the modern Arabic writing. Interestingly enough, while Arabic is written right to left, the numbers are written left to right. Those crazy Arabs.

Just some useless info floating around my head.

Great pics Shung, you luck mo-fo.  

Thx for the historic background about numbers. You are right , I should have called them "arabic numerals". It's just that i translated that litterally from my mother language (french) , and it was not 100% correct.

mo-fo, yes, lucky ? not always ;)

Maybe because it came through England to Swtizerland through who knows how many importers or collectors.

What is engraved on rifles imported into the US and what language are those import marks engraved in?

When a rifle is built in the US from imported parts kits why do the builders engrave the foreign selector marks and Arsenal markings on the US receivers?

When someone sends Ted Marshall a Saiga rifle and their collection of imported parts to make a clone why does he press dimples into the receiver of the Saiga (if it doesn't already have them) and why does he engrave the rifle with Russian markings?

What can you actually give us that will broaden our knowledge on what this rifle is or isn't?

Guys, these Kalashnikov variants have been around for a while - they're not something brand new or someone trying to blow smoke up your skirts.  Sadly, thre's not a terribly lot of information regarding them other than they're not 1950's era old.  They're likely rifles assembled in Vietnam from contracted sources for parts - Russia, China, East German, etc.  

Here's member Stottman's photos of one - you'll note it has a Russian/Chinese style rear sling loop on this example as well as the Chinese rear sight leaf.  Additionally, the very early Russian hardwood buttstock with the Russian re-arsenal stamp in the wood (many people think the milled rifles only had laminated wood as that's all they see)

don't know this word exactly, but I guess it's not THAT kind

Wow.. Stottman rifle really looks like mine exept the muzzle.. !!!! The other difference seems to be : painted selector numerals, and no AF marking on the left side of the receiver.


btw, my serial starts like his ! Do we have more informations about Stottman AK ? not really it seems.

He used to be a member here and lived over in Germany, military member.  I sent him something once.  He's a member over on theakforum.net.

Stottman contact him.

It was photographed at one of many museums throught Europe/Russia he visited and conducted a great deal of research on.  I had yet another photo grabbed from the internet of another one but can't find it.

I think Vietnam assembled a great many to accomodate their old stocks of Kalashnikov rifles as well as replace some aging rifles and may have got good deals on old, milled receivers and parts from Russian, China, and Eastern Europe.

yeah, I now seem to remember having seen those stottman's pictures on the AK forum when I inquired about my gun.. Btw, the previous owner is also a member on the AK forum.

Anyway, I am happy to have a kind of confirmation that this gun, most probably , was in Vietnam once.. and that the marking isnt just pure BS...

I believe your rifle was one that Andre had before he passed on.  I remember seeing it quite a while back when it was first photographed for the forum.  He had some beautiful examples and glad to see you ended up with the Vietnamese Kalashnikov.  He also had a very nice North Korean Type 58.  At any rate, happy another Kalashnikov nut and member has it to take care of.  

Here is the link to Stottman's original HUGE post. It's a tremendous source of information...
http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=4&f=93&t=64490

Actually, I think I got it from his brother.. I did not have the chance to know him, unfortunately. But the person I know is a great man, and we share another passion besides guns. Airplanes.

I also know who got the Korean Type 58. He is a friend of mine from Valais. Actually it was my friend to introduce me to the previous owner bro.

One thing is for sure. These guys had a MAGNIFICENT collection... when you see what has been sold, you wonder what remains

Thanks for sharing!!!

That is one Beautiful Rifle !!!! And most of us wish we owned it

Just FYI for those following the ID/selector markings from that table and the engraving plate featured above - there's a few errors with it.  Particulary with the engraving plate showing the North Korean selector markings as the characters aren't right.  It's always best to consult some photographed examples for the most accurate markings before putting them on your receiver.

I noticed that and was going to ask about it.

I hate sounding like a smart-ass or some anal Kalashni-snob - I would just hate for someone to spend a chunk of money on an almost permanent custom engraving on their project's receiver by only using those examples.  

I'm getting ready to do an early Chinese Type 56 on a milled receiver with underfolding spike bayonet and full-buttstock, and an early North Korean Type 58 on a milled receiver with full buttstock, and both with the unique markings.  I've spent... well, years trying to assemble enough reference material/photos to hopefully do some justice on the markings when they go on.  If someone is also preparing for such a project, let me know if you need the reference photos.

what about my magasine ? It seemed to me that you suggested that I used something else to be "historically" correct ? What should I get ?

I started collecting old west guns, than modern semi auto pistols, than modern assault rifles (4 AR's and one full auto Colt M4 on a M16A1 lower, DoD stamped) and that AK just came on an impulse buy.. I'm thinking of buying at least 3 more (AKM, AKSU and AK74), but my knowledge about AK's is poor at the moment