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Posted: 12/7/2012 5:25:13 AM EDT
Molon gave me permission to post the results of his barrier blind accuracy tests. It's a real shame that we don't have his expertise shared with us anymore.
Anyway, here are the results without discussion: 
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Posted: 12/7/2012 6:05:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Does he have any information on penetration?
The whole thing about barrier blind ammo is penetration... |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 6:38:35 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Does he have any information on penetration? The whole thing about barrier blind ammo is penetration... If you're USMC you should have all the info you need on Mk318 and M855A1. Hornady posts gelatin tests on the law enforcement side of their website. There are several strings in this forum on gelatin tests of the other rounds mentioned (active and tacked). The only thing I hadn't found was accuracy, and Molon provided that. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 6:57:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Any info on what "selected lot" means on entry two. How were they selected and why only that one loading?
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Posted: 12/7/2012 7:15:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Any info on what "selected lot" means on entry two. How were they selected and why only that one loading? No sir, I don't have any additional info. I was very happy to get the response that I needed to my question, which was about the accuracy of FBI loads vs Hornady 8125N. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 7:58:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Why don't we have "his expertise anymore?" What happened?
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Posted: 12/7/2012 8:26:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Why don't we have "his expertise anymore?" What happened? GD people pissed in his thread one too many times and he got tired of people not understanding what he was trying to say. There is likely more that is not public, but that is between Molon, the pissers, and Site Staff. For awhile he was on TOS as well as Weaponevolution.com. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:56:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why don't we have "his expertise anymore?" What happened? GD people pissed in his thread one too many times and he got tired of people not understanding what he was trying to say. There is likely more that is not public, but that is between Molon, the pissers, and Site Staff. For awhile he was on TOS as well as Weaponevolution.com. To bad they can't start a thread that only he can post in. Make it read only for everyone but he can post. I just built a SBR and have been doing a little research. That list adds good info. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 3:23:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Where is Molon posting at now-a-days???
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Posted: 12/7/2012 4:15:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Where is Molon posting at now-a-days??? He is not. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 4:48:28 PM EDT
[#10]
He was too smart for all the fucking idiots that wanted to constantly challenge him. I would get tired too. Crying fucking shame that dude is gone. L2
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Posted: 12/7/2012 5:19:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
He was too smart for all the fucking idiots that wanted to constantly challenge him. I would get tired too. Crying fucking shame that dude is gone. L2 It is truly a shame that he is gone. It diminishes the ammo forum significantly. BTW, what ever happened to Troy and Tatjana? |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 5:47:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Federal LE223T3 is my ace in the hole ammo, It works very well on barriers
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Posted: 12/7/2012 6:56:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: He was too smart for all the fucking idiots that wanted to constantly challenge him. I would get tired too. Crying fucking shame that dude is gone. L2 It is truly a shame that he is gone. It diminishes the ammo forum significantly. BTW, what ever happened to Troy and Tatjana? Christmas will be 7 years since Tat has posted anything here and Troy is still around, though not posting much at all. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 8:49:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Where did he go, is everything ok? He is currently selling off a bunch of stuff in the EE.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:05:08 PM EDT
[#15]
When I first found arfcom the VERY first thing that impressed me was Molon and the dedication and work he put into FREELY giving such valuable information. He was a great resource to this site and I was saddened that he left.
Please pass on to him that those of us who appreciated his work miss him and wish him all the best. |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:42:31 PM EDT
[#16]
The 223 T3 is more accurate but I wonder how its penetration compares to its 5.56 brother?
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Posted: 12/8/2012 5:05:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: The 223 T3 is more accurate but I wonder how its penetration compares to its 5.56 brother? I did a test (unofficial) with LE223T3 a few years ago on a car and I was impressed I've beentrying to score a few boxes of the FBI556T3 to try out but I haven't had any luck getting any When I do I will post the results |
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Posted: 12/8/2012 5:25:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Molon is/was the greatest ammo-related resource this site has/had. I hate to see him gone, but I totally understand, because this place can be chock full of idiots sometimes.
I'm honored to have been able to contribute meaningful data to some of his tests - he even sent me ammo to test once. |
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Posted: 12/9/2012 6:53:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does he have any information on penetration? The whole thing about barrier blind ammo is penetration... If you're USMC you should have all the info you need on Mk318 and M855A1. Hornady posts gelatin tests on the law enforcement side of their website. There are several strings in this forum on gelatin tests of the other rounds mentioned (active and tacked). The only thing I hadn't found was accuracy, and Molon provided that. In the Marines, they just give us ammo and tell us to shoot it. And then they tell us to clean our weapons as if they came out of a box brand new 
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:24:32 PM EDT
[#20]
I too am sorry that Molon has left. I loved everything he posted. I thought he was writing a book on ammo. I would buy it.
As for the Fed FBI ammo...the best I could get it to do is 5MOA. It's a real dog regardless or terminal performance. |
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Posted: 12/11/2012 2:20:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Molon has helped far more than he probably realizes and there's a great many people who appreciated his effort.
his knowledge is missed,hope he starts posting again somewhere |
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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:56:00 PM EDT
[#22]
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 4:33:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. 1.9" for three 10 shot groups is not bad. |
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Posted: 12/11/2012 5:18:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. 1.9" for three 10 shot groups is not bad. Course not. Anything below 2 MOA is fantastic. I just would have thought it would have been 2nd or 3rd in the accuracy department. |
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Posted: 12/11/2012 8:24:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I too am sorry that Molon has left. I loved everything he posted. I thought he was writing a book on ammo. I would buy it. As for the Fed FBI ammo...the best I could get it to do is 5MOA. It's a real dog regardless or terminal performance. Same here. I bought a couple hundred rounds of the fbit3 and the best I get at 100 yds even with a 4-12X scope is just over 3 moa. Perhaps my barrel just doesn't like it. I get much better groups with other loads. But then again, the reason I bought it was for much closer things without the glass mounted. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:48:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. 1.9" for three 10 shot groups is not bad. Course not. Anything below 2 MOA is fantastic. I just would have thought it would have been 2nd or 3rd in the accuracy department. I think it's the bullet. I haven't seen many people getting MOA or better with the TSX. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 5:05:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. 1.9" for three 10 shot groups is not bad. Course not. Anything below 2 MOA is fantastic. I just would have thought it would have been 2nd or 3rd in the accuracy department. I think it's the bullet. I haven't seen many people getting MOA or better with the TSX. I agree. I think that the Secant Ogive can cause issues with some throats. IMO, the 53gr TSX-BT is more accurate. Then again the Cor-Bon ammo is pricey and I do not shoot this stuff too often. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 8:50:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Christmas will be 7 years since Tat has posted anything here and Troy is still around, though not posting much at all. Yep 
I miss them and Austrian - good people who were major assests to this site.. 
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Posted: 12/12/2012 8:51:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. I've never found the TSX's to be extreamly accurate bullets. Good - yes - but not near what a decent OTM can do. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:13:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Christmas will be 7 years since Tat has posted anything here and Troy is still around, though not posting much at all. Yep
I miss them and Austrian - good people who were major assests to this site.. Off-topic, but Austrian pops up in GD once in a great while, and Troy posted in the Team forum a month or so back. They're still around. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 3:04:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. I've never found the TSX's to be extreamly accurate bullets. Good - yes - but not near what a decent OTM can do. I've found the 55 gr and 70 gr TSX to be consistent 1.3-1.5 MOA rounds out of my LMT MRP. Definitely not in the Heavy OTM class, but more than adequate when you consider the outstanding terminal effects of the bullet. IIRC the velocity expansion window gives the 70 gr TSX a max expansion range of just over 300 yards, at that range the accuracy difference is really meaningless. His results match mine with the 556FBIT3, really disappointing accuracy with that load. |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:38:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. I've never found the TSX's to be extreamly accurate bullets. Good - yes - but not near what a decent OTM can do. My Denny's Operator barrel that is scary accurate with some ammo did ~3MOA with the SSA 70-grain TSX load.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:49:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. I've never found the TSX's to be extreamly accurate bullets. Good - yes - but not near what a decent OTM can do. My Denny's Operator barrel that is scary accurate with some ammo did ~3MOA with the SSA 70-grain TSX load. As Eric pointed out, they are not the MOST accurate bullets out there. However, in addition, there are some guns that just rebuke the thought of eating a Barnes bullet. I have seen one first hand. It was a buddie's gun. He wanted to shoot TSX's so bad he was ate up. We tried the 50's (old style, not Black Hills), 53's, 55's, and 62's. They all performed about the same.......MO pie plate @ 100 yds. This is the same gun that is moa with 69 Sierras, and 60 gr. Black Hills soft points. L2 |
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:55:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
As Eric pointed out, they are not the MOST accurate bullets out there. They seem to be pretty spotty in .224 caliber. My old 6.8 barrel shot really well with the 85-grain TSX and I've seen lots of other rifles shoot them well in larger calibers. At least they're better than the original X-bullet. 
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Posted: 12/15/2012 6:57:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: I've found the 55 gr and 70 gr TSX to be consistent 1.3-1.5 MOA rounds out of my LMT MRP. Definitely not in the Heavy OTM class, but more than adequate when you consider the outstanding terminal effects of the bullet. IIRC the velocity expansion window gives the 70 gr TSX a max expansion range of just over 300 yards, at that range the accuracy difference is really meaningless. His results match mine with the 556FBIT3, really disappointing accuracy with that load. FBI556T3 was designed to be used out of a SBR with a 9" barrel |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:44:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've found the 55 gr and 70 gr TSX to be consistent 1.3-1.5 MOA rounds out of my LMT MRP. Definitely not in the Heavy OTM class, but more than adequate when you consider the outstanding terminal effects of the bullet. IIRC the velocity expansion window gives the 70 gr TSX a max expansion range of just over 300 yards, at that range the accuracy difference is really meaningless. His results match mine with the 556FBIT3, really disappointing accuracy with that load. FBI556T3 was designed to be used out of a SBR with a 9" barrel Interesting, didn't know that. Might explain the mediocre accuracy I get from my 16" 1/9 barrel. Or help to explain it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2012 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
As Eric pointed out, they are not the MOST accurate bullets out there. However, in addition, there are some guns that just rebuke the thought of eating a Barnes bullet. I have seen one first hand. It was a buddie's gun. He wanted to shoot TSX's so bad he was ate up. We tried the 50's (old style, not Black Hills), 53's, 55's, and 62's. They all performed about the same.......MO pie plate @ 100 yds. This is the same gun that is moa with 69 Sierras, and 60 gr. Black Hills soft points. L2 My BCM MK12 hates them, my MRP gobbles them all up and asks for more. |
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Posted: 12/16/2012 11:04:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've found the 55 gr and 70 gr TSX to be consistent 1.3-1.5 MOA rounds out of my LMT MRP. Definitely not in the Heavy OTM class, but more than adequate when you consider the outstanding terminal effects of the bullet. IIRC the velocity expansion window gives the 70 gr TSX a max expansion range of just over 300 yards, at that range the accuracy difference is really meaningless. His results match mine with the 556FBIT3, really disappointing accuracy with that load. FBI556T3 was designed to be used out of a SBR with a 9" barrel I can see that, it's a hot load and the accuracy just isn't there to reliably use past 150 yards, 200 at most IMO. I live on 145 acres and need something that can make hits out to 400-500 yards on 4 legged pests, so I run 70 gr TSX in the MRP and MK262 in the MK12 when out and about. The FBI556T3 is reserved for home defense. |
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Posted: 12/16/2012 3:37:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: FBI556T3 was designed to be used out of a SBR with a 9" barrel Interesting, didn't know that. Might explain the mediocre accuracy I get from my 16" 1/9 barrel. Or help to explain it. The LE223T3 would be a better choice for the 16" 1/9 |
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Posted: 12/16/2012 5:04:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I would have thought the 5.56 50gr TSX would group alittle better considering black hills ammo usually posts very good accuracy results. just depends on the barrel and the operator One person cant really delcare a certain load in accurate. within reason that is. |
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Posted: 12/16/2012 5:08:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Christmas will be 7 years since Tat has posted anything here and Troy is still around, though not posting much at all. Yep
I miss them and Austrian - good people who were major assests to this site.. Well forest we still have you! 
You have given me loads of info concerning the history of the AR15 back in the early days. As well as Chuck Santose |
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Posted: 12/22/2012 10:23:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Damn, I didn't know he was gone. One of Arfcom's greatest resources.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 12:24:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Molon has helped far more than he probably realizes and there's a great many people who appreciated his effort. his knowledge is missed,hope he starts posting again somewhere +1 on that thought. |
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Posted: 12/23/2012 9:36:48 AM EDT
[#44]
I found this thread looking to see if i could find an accuracy test on some ae223bk and aguilla fmjbt. Now all i find is accuracy answers like "i shot 300 rounds of it and no FTF or FTE." apparently the resaults of accuracy are not worth recording.
I joined ar-15 because of the information Molon had posted. My log book is full of the fps, MOA and which twist barrel. When i didn't have records from a certain ammo, i searched for Molon and if he had shot it. I don't think i ever even posted a reply to his posts because i don't argue with people that are completely correct. |
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