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Posted: 7/13/2010 9:40:18 PM EDT
So, I picked up a No-Dak Spud / McKay Enterprises lower today, and all I can say is that it looks like a true high quality lower.  When I ordered it I was able to pick my serial number from basically the entire production has remained unsold for some reason that I can't quite understand.  Given that NDS has essentially targeted a niche market (Thats us!) and went out of their way to produce gray A2 lowers (Which I pestered them to do...And lots of you guys did too!), and in light of their continued efforts to provide us with what we want, when we want, with the quality that we want, I thought I'd highlight one of their products a little bit.

While I'm at it, rather than just plugging NDS, I'm also going to tell you where to get every little part you need to build a retro rifle in one post.

First let's talk a little bit about the rifle:
The Colt Model 715 / Diemaco (Colt Canada) C7
The Model 715, probably better known as the C7, is an upgraded Canadian version of the M16A1.  The C7 combines the simple sights of the A1 series with the A2 profile barrel, A2 furniture, forward assist, flash hider, and brass deflector.  I own a C7 clone myself and have found that while it handles just like an A2, it has all the simplicity I love from the A1 series.

The first photo from here shows the Colt Catalog Model 711.  The 715 was developed directly from this by adding a brass deflector and A2 barrel.

Shown here is a late production C7.  All Model 715/C7 rifles had the A2 brass deflector and barrel, but only the later ones were black like this one.

As you can see here, they did indeed come in gray!

(Photo Credit: Retro Black Rifle website / TexSquirrel)
If this catches on, I may cover the Model 711 in a separate post.  If somebody else wants to do it first, please do so!  The more info the merrier!

Receivers
No-Dak Spud has done all of the hard work on producing correct receivers for you.  My photography skills don't do the lower justice so I'm going to steal Mike & Harlan's.  My lower arrived already coated in a little bit of CLP, and is a very nice darkish XM Grey color.  These lowers themselves are forged and machined by McKay Enterprises, but were finished by hand by NDS and anodized by US Anodizing.  The one I got is easily the best looking AR lower I have ever seen.  It's shown here compared to their black lower, which you could also use, but this project focuses on building a "Gray-rifle" rather than the typical Black-rifle.

(Photo Credit: No-Dak Spud)
Find these on the A2 lowers page.

While you're visiting NDS, you're also going to want to take some time to get yourself the upper.  These are Anchor-Harvey (Splinter A forge marks) forgings, again finished by NDS and anodized by Victor at US Anodizing.  I've built two rifles using Anchor-Harvey C7 uppers, and both zeroed up beautifully with no more than 2-3 clicks of windage.

(Photo Credit: No-Dak Spud)
Find these on the retro lowers page.

Parts Kits, Bolt Group, Butt stock, and Barrel
DPMS parts kits are well liked for retro builds, I personally have used the RRA kits with the standard triggers.  Either one should do fine.  C7 rifles use an A2 profile barrel in 1/7 twist.  My personal preference is for 1/9 twist rather than 1/7, but either would work fine.

Visit PK Firearms for your next batch of parts.  You're going to want to grab the following items from them:
An A1/C7 upper parts kit (These come with the teardrop assist, we don't want that for this build.)
A round A2 forward assist (To replace the tear drop)
Any LPK with an aluminum trigger guard, like RRA (Or buy an A1 guard on the EE rather than re-anodizing)

Optional Parts: A2 or other rear aperture to replace your A1 rear sight, A1 or other front post to replace your A2 front post, 20 or 30 round USGI dry film finish magazines.  Early Canadian magazines were Thermold (AKA "Thermelt") plastic magazines somewhat similar to Israeli Orlite magazines.

An A2 profile barrel.  My recommendation is the 'Bushmaster M16A2 Govt. Weight 20 Inch Barrel 1/9 Twist' barrel, which is chrome lined and also offered in the "Correct" 1x7.  I own two of the 1x9's and both of them shoot great.  If you get the Bushmaster barrel, get the barrel assembly to save on time and money getting the other parts.  Feel free to select another manufacturer if you prefer them.  If you don't select the Bushy barrel assembly, be sure to pick up some A2 handguards, an A2 hider, gas tube and pin, a peel or crush washer*, and a delta ring kit.

(Photo Credit: PK Firearms)
Note that the barrel is a bit heavier from the gas block on out.  They're .750 rather than the usual .625, but this doesn't make them nearly as heavy as an HBAR.  I find the A2/Gov't profile barrels to still be plenty light.  If you really don't like/want an A2 barrel, you could get an A1 profile and bolt it on just as easily.  You might also luck out and find a USGI A2 barrel on the EE, either a Colt or FNMI, etc.

A note on peel washers:  The crush washer is the easier way to install your FH.  The 'Correct' way for this build would be with the peel washer on this one.  A1 lock washers don't time the FH correctly, so don't even bother.  Search through the forums here for details on installing peel washers.  If it's too much of a hassle, you could use a crush washer.  If you buy the barrel assembly, be sure to order a separate peel washer to be sure you get one, mine both came with crush washers.

Next, grab yourself a bolt group.  The C7 uses a standard phosphated bolt and carrier, so any manufacturer you like should do for this one.

Your last two parts are a forged charging handle and an A2 butt stock assembly, the assembly comes complete with buffer bits.  The A2 stock, I should note, is the easy way out.  If you can afford $200+ for a used stock, grab a CS stock off the EE.  If you can't afford that much and still want an A1 length stock, you can always get yourself a surplus A1/Type-E stock, and bolt an A2 butt plate to it...Or just leave the plate and bolt an A1 stock on it.  Remember, this is your rifle, and this is an area that can make a big difference for some people.  Feel free to bolt on pretty much whatever you want as long as it's comfortable.  If you had to do an A1 pistol grip to make it comfy for ya, I wouldn't be bothered by that either.

Make sure you get the buffer, spring, screw, and tube, if you aren't ordering the A2 stock assembly and don't already have those parts!

Another quick note: If you have a source for gray anodized/parkerized upper/lower parts kits, barrels, or charging handles, you can save on refinishing by buying those.

Refinishing
OK...Now comes the tricky part.  No-Dak Spud offers their parts in gray, but the other guys don't.  If you bought all new parts for this build they need to be refinished to match.  You might try the "Naval Jelly Trick" on your LPK.  Get your charging handle and delta ring, and any other steel/aluminum parts you want refinished to match (Probably your upper and lower parts kits, maybe your barrel and flash hider) and get those sent off to Victor as US Anodizing.

If that just isn't you thing, you could use Duracoat, Norrels, Ceracoat, spray paint, or any other product you want to color match your new parts.  Victor would probably be able to provide the best match to the NDS parts you bought since he anodized those in the first place.

The Naval Jelly Trick: Naval Jelly is also known as phosphoric acid, and is sold under several other product and brand names at autoparts stores.  It has a chemical formula, but you don't need to know this, don't know it, and I'm not going to bother looking it up.  Basically the naval jelly trick is this...You take your black phosphate parts, and apply some naval jelly.  You wait a short while, and remove the naval jelly.  You do this very very carefully and slowly, and when you're finished, your parts are now a nice gray that matches your receivers.  Oddly enough, with some LPKs blasting the parts with (red label?) brake cleaner has the same effect.

Assembly
You can visit Brownell's for some very good information on building up your AR-15, or read the guides posted here.  You're going to follow the instructions for building an A1 upper, with the exception of course of using your round rather than teardrop assist.

When you finish, your rifle should look something like this one:



Pretty sweet, ain't it?  (Photo and rifle property of the NDS Team!)

Now, go build your own!

Edit: Added an explanation of the naval jelly trick.  Would like somebody to confirm which brake cleaner it was that grayed certain LPKs.
Edit: Added some information from follow-on posts, find these below:

ThatGuy96 provided some additional information on the 711/713 series:
Late production 711s should have had the brass deflector as well. Some sources mention a four position selector, as well as the rifles being initially produced on contract for Turkey. There was also an S-1-3 variant, the 713.

This means that if you follow the instructions given here and use an A1 instead of A2 barrel, you'd have a late 711 or 713 clone.

Log recommends thinking carefully about using an EMCO A2 barre, they may have had a batch with some issuesl:
Also, keep an eye out for Emco A2 barrels, which were supplied during the field level upgrades from A1 to A2. They are marked "E MP 5.56 NATO 1/7". They did get some bad press due to a run that had chambers that weren't finished well, which caused extraction problems. Not all of them were lemons though. I got one of the good ones, and it is on my C7 clone. It is a very accurate barrel, and the C7 is one of my favorite rifles.


What the heck is a "CS" stock you might ask?  GSW03 has the answer, short and simple:
The CS stock came out on the Colt Sporter blue label pre bans and is an A1 length stock made of A2 material. The stock has CS molded on the side and now days are demanding up to $200! Diemaco of Canada took the molds and made them for the C7 as an alternate Limited stock.


I also want to mention again that the lower receiver I got from NDS excellent quality, and I won't hesitate to buy another as soon as I need one.  They are a dark gray, very similar to the rifles that Sgt911 showed us here:
Here is a pic of the c7 in Astan..looks dark gray to me...http://www.cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/potd/orig/AR2007-Z106-01.jpg
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 2:26:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Very well written and informative.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 4:40:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Man! Instead of another (FN to go with my Colt) A2 clone, I guess I'll have to bump a C7 on up the build cycle since I have an as new set of Colt A2 furniture and I think the C7 makes more sense for a combat rifle over the A2. Man this place costs me money!
(I need two of the McKay grey lowers, one to go with my A2 and one for the C7 build and my wife does not know about the A1 lower at the ffl yet!)
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 4:56:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the info, I guess mine is a 711. here is a pic of the c7 in Astan..looks dark gray to me...http://www.cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/potd/orig/AR2007-Z106-01.jpg
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 5:11:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I just got my version of a C7 done last weekend (I paid someone to mount the barrel (also barreled my 629 and 630)). It has one of the new A1 barrels (not chrome lined)  that are 1x9. Now I need to probably buy one of NoDak's C7 upper lower combo's and build a C8 next.

BRD does not apply to me (this will be my 8th AR in the last year and 1/2). I can stop at any time.

Sarge
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 5:28:23 AM EDT
[#5]
I plan on using the heavy HBAR barrel (A2) on this build, I have the Grey upper lower combo, though the barrel isn't grey, I still plan on building it up as such, I just need some A2 hand guards as the set I have is cracked where it slides into the end cap.  Very nice article you prepared, I may do it in the A1 barrel configuration as well since I have a complete Colt upper that would work.'

Though I did bid on another C7 set NoDak had on Gunbroker, that was going to be for a C8 since I ended up with an original Colt early style butt stock though the plastic version, so it got me motivated, dangerous, lol.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 5:36:05 AM EDT
[#6]
Also since I'm not up on all the lingo, you mention "EE" as a parts source, someone enlighten me please.  And you mention the CS stock?  How does this compare to the A2 stock?  I have a few extra A1 stocks laying around wondering if it's an A2 trapdoor that makes it different, appreciate the input, wish to do all this correctly or as close as I can get.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 6:24:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Also since I'm not up on all the lingo, you mention "EE" as a parts source, someone enlighten me please.  


"EE" is the Equipment Exchange. That red button at the top right of this page. Then go to the section titled "AR Parts - Used".

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 6:54:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks, oh I see it now, great!

Quoted:
Quoted:
Also since I'm not up on all the lingo, you mention "EE" as a parts source, someone enlighten me please.  


"EE" is the Equipment Exchange. That red button at the top right of this page. Then go to the section titled "AR Parts - Used".



Link Posted: 7/14/2010 7:03:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
And you mention the CS stock?  How does this compare to the A2 stock?  I have a few extra A1 stocks laying around wondering if it's an A2 trapdoor that makes it different, appreciate the input, wish to do all this correctly or as close as I can get.


The CS stock came out on the Colt Sporter blue label pre bans and is an A1 length stock made of A2 material. The stock has CS molded on the side and now days are demanding up to $200! Diemaco of Canada took the molds and made them for the C7 as an alternate Limited stock. I wish someone would import them. (at a reasonable price!)

Link Posted: 7/14/2010 7:25:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The first photo from here shows the Colt Catalog Model 711.  The 715 was developed directly from this by adding a brass deflector and A2 barrel.

Late production 711s should have had the brass deflector as well.  Some sources mention a four position selector, as well as the rifles being initially produced on contract for Turkey.  There was also an S-1-3 variant, the 713.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 9:45:49 AM EDT
[#11]
I think the reason the lowers are not selling is not so much that they may be bad quality.  It is in the details.  You know how detailed we can be in the retro area.  I would jump all over them if they were not marked "multi caliber" and "fire".  That is why I'm  not puling the trigger.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 10:05:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 10:45:19 AM EDT
[#13]
I am looking to build a "C7 type" like the pic posted on the Nodak page.  I am going to use a LW barrel and an A1 lower, so I guess it will be more like a Colt 711.  I will be using the C7 style upper, as I have read of 711's mentioned with this type.

And, I don't have one like that yet.  
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 11:18:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the reason the lowers are not selling is not so much that they may be bad quality.  It is in the details.  You know how detailed we can be in the retro area.  I would jump all over them if they were not marked "multi caliber" and "fire".  That is why I'm  not puling the trigger.


The McKay lowers are good quality, and we have had several independent reports to that fact.

The marking have nothing to do with function, but are being changed on the next production run.


Mike,
I hope my comment has not been misunderstood.  I have no doubt about the quality.  I even state that.  It was solely about the markings.  And if that is in the process of being changed then I'm on one sir!  

After reading my first post I can see where you thought I was knocking the quality.  My apologies.  I was not questioning the quality.  It was purely about the markings.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 12:04:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think the reason the lowers are not selling is not so much that they may be bad quality.  It is in the details.  You know how detailed we can be in the retro area.  I would jump all over them if they were not marked "multi caliber" and "fire".  That is why I'm  not puling the trigger.


The McKay lowers are good quality, and we have had several independent reports to that fact.

The marking have nothing to do with function, but are being changed on the next production run.


Mike,
I hope my comment has not been misunderstood.  I have no doubt about the quality.  I even state that.  It was solely about the markings.  And if that is in the process of being changed then I'm on one sir!  

After reading my first post I can see where you thought I was knocking the quality.  My apologies.  I was not questioning the quality.  It was purely about the markings.


After the markings change, I'll be on more than one
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 1:07:25 PM EDT
[#16]
You might also luck out and find a USGI A2 barrel on the EE, either a Colt or FNMI, etc.


Also, keep an eye out for Emco A2 barrels, which were supplied during the field level upgrades from A1 to A2.  They are marked "E MP 5.56 NATO 1/7".  They did get some bad press due to a run that had chambers that weren't finished well, which caused extraction problems.  Not all of them were lemons though.  I got one of the good ones, and it is on my C7 clone.  It is a very accurate barrel, and the C7 is one of my favorite rifles.

I too am waiting on the second run of McKay Grey lowers.  In for two.
Link Posted: 7/14/2010 4:18:44 PM EDT
[#17]
C7s  R teh RoXXor!!!!
Link Posted: 7/15/2010 3:14:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Great post, it just proved to me that I did my C7 correctly. Can't wait to see your post on the model 711, if you do one.
Link Posted: 7/15/2010 4:23:05 PM EDT
[#19]

I put mine together about 4 years ago.
I also used a Bushmaster Government profile barrel in 1-7" twist, no modifications to the feed ramps and an Anchor Harvey A1 upper.
I am pretty sure Anchor Harvey is now the only forging house that still has A1 platters and may be the only new A1 uppers that are still commercially available.
One of my favorite AR15s, it compelled me to build a later C7A1 flat top collapser stock rifle.

I need to get a 30 shot "Thermelt" magazine to make my C7 visually correct in appearance to the original!
Link Posted: 7/15/2010 8:54:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Great post, it just proved to me that I did my C7 correctly. Can't wait to see your post on the model 711, if you do one.


Thanks!  Since this met with much approval, I'll probably do a 711 post, and posts for the 601/2/3/4/6 series rifles, and MAYBE an A2 post...If NDS ever does gray A2 uppers.

If anybody else out there wants to do similar posts for the carbines, feel free.  I feel very unsure about my knowledge of the retro carbines and would rather not give people faulty information.

Quoted:
I put mine together about 4 years ago.
I also used a Bushmaster Government profile barrel in 1-7" twist, no modifications to the feed ramps and an Anchor Harvey A1 upper.
I am pretty sure Anchor Harvey is now the only forging house that still has A1 platters and may be the only new A1 uppers that are still commercially available.
One of my favorite AR15s, it compelled me to build a later C7A1 flat top collapser stock rifle.

I need to get a 30 shot "Thermelt" magazine to make my C7 visually correct in appearance to the original!


Nice rifle!  I have some bad news and good news for you about the Thermold magazines.  The bad news is I don't know where to get you any.  The good news is that once the Canadian army found out that Thermold was actually 'Thermelt' they switched to USGI type aluminum magazines, so your rifle is currently correct!
Link Posted: 7/16/2010 4:47:53 AM EDT
[#21]
In case you got to be really "correct" with the C7 here is a Nella M7 bayonet for it: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178786317
Link Posted: 7/16/2010 4:52:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
http://www.fototime.com/00D69D0B35A5260/standard.jpg
I put mine together about 4 years ago.
I also used a Bushmaster Government profile barrel in 1-7" twist, no modifications to the feed ramps and an Anchor Harvey A1 upper.
I am pretty sure Anchor Harvey is now the only forging house that still has A1 platters and may be the only new A1 uppers that are still commercially available.
One of my favorite AR15s, it compelled me to build a later C7A1 flat top collapser stock rifle.

I need to get a 30 shot "Thermelt" magazine to make my C7 visually correct in appearance to the original!


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=179043220
Link Posted: 7/16/2010 7:20:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
In case you got to be really "correct" with the C7 here is a Nella M7 bayonet for it: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178786317


Custom heated. Nella
regards,
Ralph
Link Posted: 7/16/2010 7:42:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In case you got to be really "correct" with the C7 here is a Nella M7 bayonet for it: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178786317


Custom heated. Nella


Note:
We are FFL dealers, not gunsmiths. We have not test fired nor checked headspace on any of these firearms. Please have your local gunsmith check out any firearm you purchase from us or any other used firearm you buy prior to shooting it.

You'll need the bayo headspaced before you shoot it.
Link Posted: 7/16/2010 8:27:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Hey, thanks for the info and help on finding a Thermold magazine but the truth is that I am well aware of the magazine shortcomings.

That said, I have a number of Magpul P-Mags in black that do a bang up job of substituting!

I may post my C7A2 clone or I may do a You-Tube video on this rifle.
It has become my all time favorite AR15.
Link Posted: 7/16/2010 8:33:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Great post, it just proved to me that I did my C7 correctly. Can't wait to see your post on the model 711, if you do one.


Thanks!  Since this met with much approval, I'll probably do a 711 post, and posts for the 601/2/3/4/6 series rifles, and MAYBE an A2 post...If NDS ever does gray A2 uppers.

If anybody else out there wants to do similar posts for the carbines, feel free.  I feel very unsure about my knowledge of the retro carbines and would rather not give people faulty information.

Quoted:
I put mine together about 4 years ago.
I also used a Bushmaster Government profile barrel in 1-7" twist, no modifications to the feed ramps and an Anchor Harvey A1 upper.
I am pretty sure Anchor Harvey is now the only forging house that still has A1 platters and may be the only new A1 uppers that are still commercially available.
One of my favorite AR15s, it compelled me to build a later C7A1 flat top collapser stock rifle.

I need to get a 30 shot "Thermelt" magazine to make my C7 visually correct in appearance to the original!


Nice rifle!  I have some bad news and good news for you about the Thermold magazines.  The bad news is I don't know where to get you any.  The good news is that once the Canadian army found out that Thermold was actually 'Thermelt' they switched to USGI type aluminum magazines, so your rifle is currently correct!


The whole theory behind the Thermold mags was that it was design as a disposable magazine. During war time instead of being resupplied with bandoleers and stripper clips, you would get mags. Once the magazine was emtpy you are suppose to throw them on the ground and step on them.

Yes they do melt in extreme exposure to sun and if you leave them on the hull of a LAV when it's a 100F.

We use to trade them to Marines because we told them that they don't rust. LOL

Link Posted: 7/16/2010 9:30:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Canadian Military does some things brilliantly and some things with just a touch of stupid.

In the heat of combat nobody in their right mind is going to stop what they are doing, mainly killing to avoid getting killed, to look for and step on the magazine they just ditched!
Most especially if that means leaving cover and concealment.

If I am not moving I'm a big fan of making friends with mother earth so standing up to squash a magazine is out of the question and when I am moving, I am not going to stop moving to squash somebody elses magazine!

I am also a big fan of dump pouches.
Whatcha gonna do when you have squashed all your magazines and the next supply drop is two hours out and all you have is SAW ammo?

Speaking of magazines, I saw an M14 magazine cook off and explode laying on the top turret of a Cadillac Gage recon car in Central America in 1983.
Talk about a hot sun that day!
Link Posted: 7/17/2010 3:28:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
You might also luck out and find a USGI A2 barrel on the EE, either a Colt or FNMI, etc.


Also, keep an eye out for Emco A2 barrels, which were supplied during the field level upgrades from A1 to A2.  They are marked "E MP 5.56 NATO 1/7".  They did get some bad press due to a run that had chambers that weren't finished well, which caused extraction problems.  Not all of them were lemons though.  I got one of the good ones, and it is on my C7 clone.  It is a very accurate barrel, and the C7 is one of my favorite rifles.

I too am waiting on the second run of McKay Grey lowers.  In for two.


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