User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:16:18 AM EDT
New to posting here, Sorry for the previous post of "Book" I was learning how to download pics. I have come into posession, (registered legal) of a very early Colt factory produced AR-15 and was hoping to get some opinions as to what exactly I have. The serial number is in the 15 thousand range which falls shortly after the completion of the 1st Colt Armalie 601 run, I have marked over the last 2 digets. I'm thinking this may have been a prototype gun in which Colt may have been experimenting with new modifications they were thinking about implementing on future G.I. contracts. I have seen only one similar upper like this in a photo of a gun that resides in England at the "Ministry of Defence Pattern Room". I'm no expert on AR or Colt guns, I am more familiar with Sub guns like the Thompson and M3 Greasegun which also reside in my collection. Feel free to express comments or opinions, I will try to answer any questions after you have seen the three photos. It has been refinished at some point, I am considering a total restoration of finish in the future.
Mike Hammer 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:29:13 AM EDT
[#1]
The upper receiver is from a 605 carbine. 605 Carbine
Just my guess but I would say someone just switched out the upper receivers at some point in the last 40 years. What are the markings on the barrel? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:29:47 AM EDT
[#2]
605 upper receiver with a 20" barrel ...that's weird
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:33:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Ok guys,,BUT what's with the lower.NO MODEL NUMBER?????????????? The upper as is can be possible as we've seen pics of guns issued to law enforcement with those 605 receivers.I forget who posted them,but done about 3-4 months ago.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:33:20 AM EDT
[#4]
That rifle looks to be a very early example of the AF 604, there's a pic of the same style (w/the FA body milled off) in "Black Rifle", according to the book some of these uppers (usually referred to by collectors as 605 uppers) were used on AF contract 604's in the beginning due to a production (or labor) problem at Colt's & to deliver some AF rifles they used uppers that had been forged w/the FA but milled them flat for the AF who didn't want the FA.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:39:39 AM EDT
[#5]
I'll grab my book,,but in the meantime should not the lower be marked M16 as other 604s are???
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 9:40:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Not actually all that weird considering how the DOD recycled all of those parts. I actually saw more than my fair share of 605 uppers in my Air Force career. My totally unsubstantiated suspicion is that Colt did a far greater in number run of those receivers than they ever did of actual 605 guns. They were completely interchangable with 604 uppers at the time and so they just got rolled in. Since I've never seen actual production numbers of real 605's, I would have thought that most went to Vietnam and the vast majority would not have made it home intact after the project was scrapped. The lowers would not have been interchangable because of the 4 position trigger groups that were resident in the earlier 605's and so the upper would get rebarreled and put back into the 604 Air Force pile. The Air Force very apparently had almost NO standards as long as it looked right, they'd use it so 605 uppers wouldn't even register to most. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 10:08:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the replys, any additional information is greatly appreciated. The barrel markings are 12 with an M and P in Triangle.
Mike Hammer |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 10:17:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Well, the lack of a model number is interesting...
Could it be a prototype gun that just lasted beyond it's prototype usefulness and got sold to the USAF to make some cash? Or one that just skipped a step on the line? I remember seeing the cops with the 605 upper on their 604, but can't find the photo if I saved it. For some reason I kinda want to build one of those now...Just to be even more different...Hehe... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 10:44:54 AM EDT
[#9]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 10:58:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Double check that M and P in triangle,sounds more like it's an M vp in triangle.M vp barrel is 1965-1966 vintage,so that's most likely the original barrel to that receiver
 Can you post a close up pic of the marking?
Quoted:
Thanks for the replys, any additional information is greatly appreciated. The barrel markings are 12 with an M and P in Triangle. Mike Hammer |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 11:03:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Sounds like a nice rifle regardless. I'd be proud to own it!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 11:08:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Sounds like a nice rifle regardless. I'd be proud to own it! +1 Colt AR15 Model 08 – SN: 015,5xx: Survival Rifle (Estimated Less than 10 made) Colt AR15 Model 07 – SN: 015,59x: Adjustable Buttstock, 10” barrel, cut down triangular handguards, short muzzle suppressor.* “GX” model range. One gun has no Colt markings and it is in Model 07 configuration with all the paperwork showing it was exported to a NATO country before 1965 and returned before 1968. Very interesting s/n range |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 11:16:59 AM EDT
[#13]
since that finish looks to be coming off, I doubt it's that nasty black arsenal refinishing stuff...I'd try a little citristrip on it....if the original finish underneath is really crappy, send it off to US Anodizing, and let Victor take care of you
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 12:03:54 PM EDT
[#14]
The "605" upper was used by Colt during regular 604 production, for USAF rifles. At the time this was due to the 603 exceeding the upper limit of the cyclic rate specification, and the subsequent refusal of the Army to accept the out of spec rifles from Colt. During this time, Colt briefly stopped production of the Army's 603. This freed-up a lot of 603-to-be uppers Colt had sitting around, ones that had not yet been broached for the forward assist. Colt simply machined-off the "hump" for the forward assist and "presto", they had a usable 604 upper. During the Army's 603 "boycott", the 604 rifles were still being rapidly manufactured and happily accepted by USAF. Although the Army 603 and USAF 604 both had identical cyclic rates, the Air Force had a higher upper limit on their acceptable cyclic rate specification, which made the 604s "acceptable" by USAF.
It's all in the book: The Black Rifle. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 12:15:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
...the 603 exceeding the upper limit of the cyclic rate specification... Was this what resulted in the new (Now the standard) buffer replacing the Edgewater buffer? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 12:19:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like a nice rifle regardless. I'd be proud to own it! +1 Colt AR15 Model 08 – SN: 015,5xx: Survival Rifle (Estimated Less than 10 made) Colt AR15 Model 07 – SN: 015,59x: Adjustable Buttstock, 10” barrel, cut down triangular handguards, short muzzle suppressor.* “GX” model range. One gun has no Colt markings and it is in Model 07 configuration with all the paperwork showing it was exported to a NATO country before 1965 and returned before 1968. Very interesting s/n range I need to get an original colt m16a1 upper. Complete... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 12:54:02 PM EDT
[#17]
It does appear to be a V& P in triangle looking at it more closely. FMJ52, you seem to have hit the proverbial nail on the head with the following info: (Colt AR15 Model 08 – SN: 015,5xx: Survival Rifle (Estimated Less than 10 made). Where on earth did you find this information? I wonder if a F.O.I.A. inquiry would turn up any useful info as to it issuance? The original anodized finish underneath would look better than what it was coated with later I'm thinking, is it possible to remove it on my own, I just hate sending these very valuable Class 3 guns off thru the mail. The extremely low serial number and the unusual configuration is what sold me on this puppy, yes I'm glad to own it.
I will be shooting it for the first time very soon.
Mike Hammer |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 1:05:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
FMJ52, you seem to have hit the proverbial nail on the head with the following info: (Colt AR15 Model 08 – SN: 015,5xx: Survival Rifle (Estimated Less than 10 made). Where on earth did you find this information? Mike Hammer http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=23&t=199902 Right hear on Arfcom |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 1:49:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Early 614
The shaved forward assist bump is not exclusive to a 605. Many early 604s and 614s were made like this from the factory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 1:52:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I doubt it's that nasty black arsenal refinishing stuff...I Correct. Its not a USGI weapon therefore it would have never had the chance to be arsenal refinished. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 2:05:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Nice gun!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 2:12:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Nice gun!! Very nice, and very unique! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 2:51:51 PM EDT
[#23]
quote http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=23&t=199902
Right hear on Arfcom O.K. I'll try to find that thread if I can figure out how to get there. I guess what I really want to know is where that particular information is actually in published form? Also failed to mention it has chromed bolt without Forward assist serrations and 3 prong flashider and a type D stock. Many thanks for all the help from you knowledgeable board members. There seems to be an almost endless number of variations to this great firearm. Mike Hammer |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 2:55:39 PM EDT
[#24]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2010 8:06:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Mike Hammer, that's an outstanding sample, but very unsatisfying at this point. I'm afraid we're going to need many more photos! Detailed photos. Excellent quality closeups of pretty much every component of the rifle. Plus any history you can provide, interesting notes from an FOIA, range report, etc., etc., etc.!
Welcome to the board. This is a heck of a way to introduce yourself! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2010 7:07:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Skinny A1 grip too ?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2010 8:29:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
FMJ52, you seem to have hit the proverbial nail on the head with the following info: (Colt AR15 Model 08 – SN: 015,5xx: Survival Rifle (Estimated Less than 10 made). Estimates at Colt "are that less than 10 Survival Rifles were ever made." The Black Rifle page 179 The model 608 carbines were marked: "MOD. 08" 015548 and 015554 were two of them. How close is your serial number? Some pictures HERE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2010 12:14:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
...the 603 exceeding the upper limit of the cyclic rate specification... Was this what resulted in the new (Now the standard) buffer replacing the Edgewater buffer? In a roundabout way, yes. The current buffer was developed during Colt's M16 HBAR automatic rifle program, since that firearm was experiencing bolt-bounce related failures to fire. It was concurrently discovered that adding the HBAR's buffer to the M16 reduced the cyclic rate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2010 12:41:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Questions? Sure... where's some pics of that greasegun?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2010 3:29:24 PM EDT
[#30]
O.K. you "Greaser", here are a couple of pics of the M3 "Greasegun" in my collection. The flash hider came out at the end of WW2 but I don't believe was used untill Korea.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/1943bogy/AGreaseGun2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/1943bogy/AGreaseGun.jpg Really appreciate the info on my F.A. Ar-15, I will try to post more detailed photos as time permits. When I have time you may want to see some pics of my Low 4 didget Colt SP-1! Mike Hammer |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
