I am interested in knowing if any of you non LEOs have a trained guard dog. If so, where did you get them trained and how much did it cost to have them trained?
The one time I looked into it and researched a place in Germany, a trrained dog was selling for 25k-40k; a little too much for what I wanted.

And yes, I know that private citizens should never own a trained guard dog yadda, yadda, yadda.

Not sure if this falls into the yadda yadda part, but I do know that the handlers need as much or more training than the dogs. Maintaining the training & discipline is the tricky part. I'm pretty sure I could turn the world's greatest guard dog into a train wreck in 18 months or less.

I have "guard" dogs, not "attack" dogs.  Two very large Dobermans (one is about 85 lbs. the other 95lbs.).  I keep about 4 months worth of food on hand for them, and need to bump that up in case TSHTF.  They don't "kill" on command, but are very protective of the family (particularly the kids).  Outside, they patrol the property and are very friendly with lost neighbor dogs as long as they don't get too close to my boys.  Inside, they sleep right at the "choke point" in our house (no matter where you were to enter from, you would have to pass the dogs to get to our sleeping areas).  The dog's job is simple: early warning/detection, buying me a few extra seconds in the night to get squared away if an intruder breaks in.  Between the dogs and the alarm, most intruders would move on to easier prey, if they press on, they will have close to 200 lbs. of angry dog to deal with BEFORE they can go any further.  I chose Dobbies because I find them aesthetically pleasing and they don't shed in the house, any large dog would probably do.

+1 on Dobermans.

I have one that is an absolutely loyal companion.  Very protective of the house and family, but never aggressive towards anyone in his "circle".

He's almost too intelligent for his own good sometimes....  

Only negative I can see to a "guard" dog is their tendency to bark at intruders.  Normally that's great... but I can think of a few scenarios where stealth may be in order and you may want to go undetected.

I suppose that's where good training comes in.

i just got a new pup he is a belgian malinois i got him to have around to watch over the family. there great dogs and very protective of family members. i had a friend that was a mp that had one and he let me put on the bite suit. man there pretty strong. we also have a catahoula there the same way. i think there the best thing to have around to leep people out of ur yard and to let u know people are around. i plane on training the new pup to do some gaurd dog type stuff. u can buy started k-9 dogs around 4-5,000 and way up from there. but ur best bet for the money i would think is buy a protective type dog and train him with the normal stuff. his instink will do the rest

stuck

IMHO the best method to get a trained “protection” dog is to get a working line GSD, Doberman, etc. and join your local Schutzhund Club.  They are a lot of work, but well worth the effort.  

met a guy on the job that had a military flunk out that he got from

a friend on the police force dog saved his life when to thugs tried to

rob him in his van one was the diversion while the other tried to sneak

up on the other side with a .38 till the dog launched and grabed his  arm

causing him to drop gun in van and run gun dumped the gun in the river.

dog was flipin out when I was near the van but since I was the good guy

she left me alone.

I'm not a fan of a these pre-purchased personal protection dogs.  The dog and handler bond is something that is a two way street.  A bad handler or a handler with no experience can ruin a good dog pretty darn quick.  

If you're looking for a dog that can on its own make a judgment call about protection of property without oversight by the handler/owner you're going to be looking at some SERIOUS price tags.  These types of dog have what is called "civil drive" and I have to tell you it is not something you develop easily.  The breeding, training, feeding, and health care of such a dog is expensive and the time that goes into training them is something you really have to do to appreciate how hard it really is.  The few places that provide such dogs are going to charge you about what you'd pay for a very decent new car and that's going to include training you.  Dogs are not robots you can program and let be.

The best route to go in my opinion is to become involved yourself in something like Schutzhund of Ring Sport.  I train in Schutzhund (German for Protection Dog) and it has given me and my dog the ability to really understand what it takes to have a dog ready to defend you and yours.  This is no easy task and nothing you can master or fully understand by reading a post on the internet.  Dog training and handling is really a school of experience or of hard knocks.  

So, instead of posting a small book worth of stuff I'll point you in the right direction so that you can decide if this long journey of dog ownership and protection training is worth it to you.  It can be one of the most rewarding things you'll ever do and the peace of mind that comes with having some form of back-up to help you protect your family is priceless in my opinion.  

Check out these links:

www.leerburg.com  Great articles and advice along with a webforum filled with people with a great deal of knowledge on the subject. Some great books and videos as well on the subject.

www.germanshepherddog.com This is the website of the USA/SV they maintain the breeding registration for the German Breed Club for the GSD.  They also administer titles and various competitions along with standards for Schutzhund training in the USA.  There is a list of clubs in your state and I would HIGHLY recommend that you visit one prior to the purchase of a dog to see what goes into this first hand and talk with folks.  Again, there is no substitute for actual experience.  

www.pedigreedatabase.com This is one of the most amazing websites I've even seen.  There are millions of registered GSDs and now a few other breeds as well that are working dogs.  You can track a whole  pedigree seeing what each dog has done in the way of earning working titles (proving capable at various tasks like obedience, tracking, protection).  The recording of health certifications is also something that many people are including now.  A dog is zero good if he's not healthy after all in terms of work.

Get out there. Talk to people. Get your family involved.  See if this is the right fit for you and something you want to get into.  A dog is not a substitute for a gun and should never be treated like a weapon.  If you're looking for macho mean dog to put a spike collar on and scare people you're not going to find anyone who breeds a decent dog to sell to you.  Good working dogs are in HIGH demand and honestly they don't have to "sell" these dogs they have people dying to be on waiting lists.  

Good Luck.    

Quoted: If you are looking for a great pet that is naturally protective plus large enough to scare anyone or put hurting on anyone, I can highly recommend an Akita.  Their natural instinct is to protect the home and the family.  As such, they are known as the babysitter dog, national dog, of Japan.

While I agree with your post TJ, a word of caution on Akitas to those with allergies; spend a good bit of time with the dog prior to bringing him/her home ('course this should go with all dogs but...).  I've got an 11yr old Akita and my Wife had a helluva time with allergies as the dog does shed quite a bit. It took a while for my Wife to "adjust" to the very fine fur but seems to be better now, else I'd hear about it more often ;)  The Akita (at least mine) does not do well with other animals but that kinda goes with the territory so no surprise there.  Aside from that, one fantastic animal in every aspect.  Barks *only* when someone approaches the house, innately patrols the house at night, great with the neighborhood children, etc...

I got an Akita based on TJ's description of his dog's personality and to this day still thank him for the recommendation.  I got my boy at 11 months old and took him thru the adolescent year along with a 50 hour handler course specializing in Akita's and aggressive dogs.  They are much harder to train than many other protection dogs as they are more independent minded or less "bid able" but worth the effort in my opinion.

I have not done bite training since I am not a great handler and don't feel confident that I could be as free to have my dog off the leash in public as I do now.  His natural bite strength is formidable as the Australian possums my dog kills weekly look like they were crushed in a vice.

I totally concur that around YOUR family he is great, but am quite sure that if he thought that your family was under attack (even if it were really play fighting) the results would be life changing for the person hit by a full grown male Akita in defense posture.

As TJ suggested, he is one of the few dogs I have seen that will hold a grudge against something and actually plot to set things right when the time is right.  Another personality trait that I like, but some may not, is the dog has a very strong sense of self worth and automatically views everyone outside his pack with ambivalence or even disdain.

As an area guard dog Akita's are not as good as a dobie or GSD as they don't constantly bark (another trait I wanted).  As an attack dog they are very good and take well to bite training (my trainer uses his dog in security work).  As hunters they are outstanding and will bring down anything from mice to deer up to about 100kg on hoof.

My dog is 5 now and 55 KG of pure muscle.  Thanks for the recommendation TJ.

anyone wanting to adopt retired military working dogs...



military dog adoption

I don't generally post on the survival forum, though I lurk around quite a bit.  I had to pipe in here and say + 1 to Dobies.  My kid isn't trained to protect us, but he is very territorial, and I have no doubts about what he would do if we had an intruder.  

One night I heard a noise outside in my front yard while my dog was in back.  I crept around from the side of the house and there was my dog on the other side of the fence, coming to check it out too.  It was dark, and I was using the house to hide my bulky silhouette, and when he saw me he went apesh*t.  He definately didn't want me there until I said his name in my "command" voice.  He calmed immediately.

There are a lot of things he does in obedience that didn't take much effort on my part to train him on.  I just need to train him to come when called even with distraction.

Thanks to all for your input. keep them coming.

IMHO for most people, what they want is a "guard dog," not an "attack dog." Most, if not all, dogs have a natural instinct to guard the home territory. A well-trained dog will woof if someone comes to the door*; a bratty spoiled dog (like my neighbor's) barks at anything that moves.

I would LOVE to find out how to train a dog in the first category!


*Hiking in the San Bernadino mountains some years ago, I came across a
family swimming in a creek: mom, dad, 2 or 3 kids under 12, and a small mixed-breed dog, about knee high. This dog was FANTASTIC: He woofed, low and quietly, only  ONCE... he did so again a few seconds later, until the dad acknowleged the dog's warning. Then, THE DOG SHUT UP!! And his eyes never left me! I wish to Hell I'd got his Email address to tell me how he taught the dog to do that!

One thing to consider is liability.  Some insurance companies will limit home owners insurance if certain breeds of dogs are on the property.  The land owner, the owner of the dog, and even the trainer can be subject to lawsuits should a person be "confronted" by such a dog. Any dog, especially if trained for "guarding", will be the target of hungry lawyers.

Good luck.

+1 to Akita's, they are natural guard dogs and very human. My Akita's would not bark hardly ever unless there was reason. They where friendly to other people for the most part unless they sensed a reason not to be then they would stand on Alert.

They are very family oriented but should not be left with small children like any dog breed (often if they are playing with a friend and the friend pushes or hits your kid there dead meat)


If you want a straight up loyal pet you could not ask for more.

Quoted: Not sure if this falls into the yadda yadda part, but I do know that the handlers need as much or more training than the dogs. Maintaining the training & discipline is the tricky part. I'm pretty sure I could turn the world's greatest guard dog into a train wreck in 18 months or less.

And more on the yada yadda yadda part --

My wife (BadgeBunny) recently adopted a retired schutzhund champion who had been injured in competition (she hurt her back during the protection phase of a comp) and was imported by a local breeder for pups.  She spent way too much money (as far as I was concerned), but this dog has turned out to be everything either of us could have asked for in both the pet and protection category.

BB works in a rural area during the week and only comes home on her days off.  Some of the fellas she works around have questionable characteristics and are not anyone I would turn my back on for a second. In fact, she recently had to fire a guy who turned out to be a registered sex offender.  While it took a couple of weeks of fairly strict handling on her part (not physical aggressiveness, but just a no tolerance policy toward obedience) this dog has now bonded with her and I have no doubt she would die protecting my wife.

My untrained observations are that you have to be confident in your ability to read animal behavior.  This GSD is very aggressive when she plays with BB, but when push comes to shove she knows who the boss is.  BB has never hit this dog, or even raised her voice to her.  However, Jackie never leaves her side and understands that my wife is devoted to her in a way that probably only her original handler was. She spends more time with my wife than I do.

In retrospect, she was worth every dime BB paid for her (and then some).  One last thing, if you are not willing to make the commitment to make one of these animals a family member you will always put first (and I don't mean by feeding it table scraps and letting the kids run roughshod over it) you will have a devoted friend for life.

Most any large breed dog, if cared for and accepted as part of the family, will provide unequal protection to said family.
Once you are accepted as its pack, or you accept it into your pack, the dog will do its best to defend the pack
No need for an expensive and potential high liability dog that has professional training

For the Dobe owners,

How well do they do in cold weather ?

Quoted:  Some insurance companies will limit home owners insurance if certain breeds of dogs are on the property.

One of my profs was complaining about that with her newly adopted Rottweiler. I asked her "Where did you get the dog?"
"I adopted it from a rescue"
"Does he have papers?"
"No"
"So he could be a mixed breed."
"I suppose"
"I bet he's got some black lab in him. The next time someone asks, you can tell them that you adopted this dog, and someone has told you that they think it's part lab. "

I've got two personal protection GSDs, one for me and one for the wife. Very friendly once I let them know it's ok but otherwise we are safe

I have a boxer, and love him like a son. He is great with other dogs, and even my GF's cats. He is very protective of family members and especially my kids. He won't let strange dogs or people get near anyone in the family. He doesn't bark or growl at them, he just puts himself between the strange dogs or people and the family member and won't let them close until I say it is ok. He is smart as hell, doesn't bark and loves to lay around and watch tv with us. When someone walks through the yard at night he will run up to the window and give this really low growl, but not bark. Anytime I here that growl, I know somethings up and get up to check it out. One day I started wrestling with my kids and he thought I was going to hurt them. Before I knew it, he had his mouth on the back of my neck. He didn't bite down hard, just enough to let me know he was there and that I should stop. It didn't make me mad, actually it made me love him even more. He and I will wrestle, and when I tell him its time to stop he does.

I don't want a "guard dog". I want a family pet that will protect my family and give me some advanced warning if something is wrong.

Also on Dobermans, my GF ex has one, that is about 110 pounds. He is very protective of my GF's daughter, but a very playful and sweet dog. I have considered getting one as  friend for my Boxer, that is if I don't get another Boxer.

Toad

I've had Fila Brasileiro dogs for the past 20 years or so and I think they are a great breed. They are a large [ most around 120  -140 lbs]  breed of mastiff from South America. A very old breed that was breed by crossing mastifs with blood hounds and supposidly the only dog breed bred for hunting people, they were used for hunting escaped slaves and indians.
Unlike  so many modern breeds that have been bred for how they look at the espense of how they perform Fila have always been bred first and formost on thier temperment. This gives you a dog that has a bred in dislike for strangers and a natual need to protect you and it's home.Not a high strung active dog but always alert. Have many times seen them looking like they were asleep to jumping up when they hear or smell somthing that is out of the ordinary no matter how faint. These dogs while disliking strangers are very affectionate and loyal to thier family...really like huge lap dogs
I have found them to be very smart and eager to please too but do take alot of work to train them so that you would be able to take them out in public. My first one I worked with alot  teaching her many commands, voice, whistles and hand signals and she I could walk down the street with. People would pet her but she never liked it and somtimes would look at me like "Gee can't I bite them please?" never did. Did rip a guy up that tried to break in my car and didn't see her in the front seat sleeping.
The one I have now I haven't worked with as much and while she listens good I would never trust her to be out in public.
There is a lot of responsiabily that goes with having a dog like this, these dogs are not the type that barks or just nips at sombody but would attack to kill, and could very well do that. Can't stress enough how this is just bred into the dog.

The perfect dog for everyone? No sure not, but if you want the perfect guard dog and are willing to do a little work I think this is a breed you might want.

Heres a photo of my old Fila  taken when she was just a puppy around 11 months old watching as my friend shoots a groundhog.......Todd

as Jeff Cooper pointed out one time, you want a dog to be an alarm and a distraction, not an anti-personal mine. I had a bouvier de flanders for many years, obedience trained but nothing more.  She instinctively guarded but did not attack, was completely safe around children and could go from looking soft and cuddly to deep serious in well under a second. She divided the world into 'shepherds', 'sheep', and 'targets to be driven away. Unfortunately, the bov decided my wife was in the sheep category and would not do what she ordered it to do. When she died, we got a lab.

Having said that, bovs are great. They don’t drop hair all over the place though you have to cut their hair like poodles. I just shaved ours off ever so often.

I had two....loved them...great dogs but the breed has health issues.....I went to a mutt when they were gone.....much less vet bills...........

MHO they are indoor dogs....not enough coat to stay outdoors.....I had them in IL with no probs but they only played outside....lived indoors

Quoted: The best route to go in my opinion is to become involved yourself in something like Schutzhund of Ring Sport.  I train in Schutzhund (German for Protection Dog) and it has given me and my dog the ability to really understand what it takes to have a dog ready to defend you and yours.  This is no easy task and nothing you can master or fully understand by reading a post on the internet.  Dog training and handling is really a school of experience or of hard knocks.   So, instead of posting a small book worth of stuff I'll point you in the right direction so that you can decide if this long journey of dog ownership and protection training is worth it to you.  It can be one of the most rewarding things you'll ever do and the peace of mind that comes with having some form of back-up to help you protect your family is priceless in my opinion.     Good Luck.

Good post

Buying a (insert breed) and thinking it will protect your family is like buying AR15 and thinking you are an operator.
YMMV

As usual I'm going to suggest the Dogo Argentino.




Dogo

Fila's are a great family dog, but man there ticking time bombs if you dont keep your eye on them with anyone strange around. My old roommate had 3. The dog trainer even had a few chunks taken out of him.

Quoted: For the Dobe owners, How well do they do in cold weather ?

They are indoor dogs. Just fine outside for regular periods of activitiy, but they should live indoors.


If anyone here thinks they have a dog that will instinctively protect them and their family they should have the dog go through a Temperament Test to find out the true situation. Lots of folks think their dog will but find out differently when placed under a real test. You never KNOW until then.

Quoted: I had two....loved them...great dogs but the breed has health issues.....I went to a mutt when they were gone.....much less vet bills...........

Quoted: MHO they are indoor dogs....not enough coat to stay outdoors.....I had them in IL with no probs but they only played outside....lived indoors

Are these posts in reference to the Dobe question ?

Thanks.

I have a 60 lb female pitbull. My family loves her, kids love her, but she will fight to the death to protect us, plus I hear she can kill 34 deer given some friends.

GUARD DOG???????

Almost any breed dog will become a good early warning system if made part of the family. I have this silly 90 pound female Yellow Lab that is a spoiled dog and very much a part of the family. Any one she knows as a friend will get licked to death, but put a stranger on the street and she is a different animal. She hears things long before we do and will sprint outside to challenge anyone or anything she is not sure about. Her growl is pretty intimidating and her hackles look like a mohawk when they are up.

Here she is on look out...

my dobie just died,he was a great dog,definetly a indoor dog,his health was good right up until eleven days before he died,then i found out about thier heart problems and i guess cancer is very common he only lived eight years. i got to attached for only eight years so now i am trying to figure out what is next,i want a dobie just for longer

Quoted: i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/onesureshot/18.jpg GUARD DOG??????? Almost any breed dog will become a good early warning system if made part of the family. I have this silly 90 pound female Yellow Lab that is a spoiled dog and very much a part of the family. Any one she knows as a friend will get licked to death, but put a stranger on the street and she is a different animal. She hears things long before we do and will sprint outside to challenge anyone or anything she is not sure about. Her growl is pretty intimidating and her hackles look like a mohawk when they are up. Here she is on look out... i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/onesureshot/31.jpg

The bottom pic looks like my lab "Hunter". He weighs 85#. I know some of you will say, "well then what the hell more would you want? I guess I am looking for a dog to defend on command.

Quoted: Quoted: If you are looking for a great pet that is naturally protective plus large enough to scare anyone or put hurting on anyone, I can highly recommend an Akita.  Their natural instinct is to protect the home and the family.  As such, they are known as the babysitter dog, national dog, of Japan. While I agree with your post TJ, a word of caution on Akitas to those with allergies; spend a good bit of time with the dog prior to bringing him/her home ('course this should go with all dogs but...).  I've got an 11yr old Akita and my Wife had a helluva time with allergies as the dog does shed quite a bit. It took a while for my Wife to "adjust" to the very fine fur but seems to be better now, else I'd hear about it more often ;)  The Akita (at least mine) does not do well with other animals but that kinda goes with the territory so no surprise there.  Aside from that, one fantastic animal in every aspect.  Barks *only* when someone approaches the house, innately patrols the house at night, great with the neighborhood children, etc... i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/thai-grr/DSC00030.jpg

I just got my fourth Akita and got my mom one out of the same litter.  My last Akita I had to put down  a few months ago at age 9.  He was the best animal I've ever had.  Both our neighbors, all my friends, and every extended family member loved him.  He had a personality that even got him praise from non-dog people.  Hands down Akitas are like no other dog I have ever experienced and most likely the only dog I'll ever have.

Growing up we lived on 37 acres and most people around us had some land.  Each of our dogs have roamed free and always had 2nd and 3rd homes with a couple of our dog friendly neighbors.  I have two younger brothers and we got our first one when they were 2 and 3.  One of my parents favorite stories to tell involves my little brother and our first Akita.  My brother had a nasty habit of getting outside and going exploring.  Fortunately we had Bear our first Akita who would actually herd him back to the house.  He would run for cover from tree to tree in the yard holding onto the tree so not to get pulled back to the house.  My parents joke now that its lucky we didn't live in a neighborhood or someone would have had either them or the dog picked up for child abuse.  The problem was later solved with child proof latches on exterior doors but everyone is pretty sure that dog kept my brother from wandering into some real trouble.   I do not believe there is a better animal for and with children.

As far as a guard dog is concerned every Akita I've had was excellent.  Something that really impressed me was how they would evaluate animals and only notify us based on risk, coyotes would get barks and deer were usually ignored.  They would always bark at people or vehicles they did not recognize.  Most people were very hesitant to leave their vehicle and would call or honk to let you know they had arrived.  Many service companies had notes in the file requesting us to "put up the dog" if they were coming out that day.  No-one ever complained about any of our dogs ever being aggressive to them or even showing aggression.  They were very clear with their bark alerting you to a stranger but without aggression.  It was like they were saying to us "someone is here and I don't know them, maybe you should come check it out".  They did this without growling or showing their teeth but still commanding respect almost as if saying "hey I don't know you and I'm gonna let someone else decide if you should be here."  Nobody in my family was ever in a position of danger for the dog to react and I think alot of that was because of the dog.

The negatives that I have heard and read over the years are just what TJ mentioned about being aggressive towards other dogs and issues with children.  My last dog was in several positions where other dogs were aggressive, even a few times he was nipped by another dog.  Every time but once he would look at them as if they were retarded.  Most always these were smaller dogs who he dwarfed since his weight averaged 150.  Having been raised with a 2lb yorkie made him very patient since she thought his only function in life was listening to her yap.  She would attack his nose if he approached a food bowl before she had finished eating.  

I'm not trying to rewrite the dog temperment for the AKC but having raised 2 Akitas from puppies and getting one that was already full grown and having never seen aggression or problems with children leads me to belive they are, as I belive most anything is, a product of their environment.  My only caution for a potential Akita would be that you have the time and environment that they require.  They are highly intetlligent and want to learn, they need interaction.  If they get bored they will find something to do and that something will most likely be selected to communicate a message to you.

Grove

Quoted: I guess I am looking for a dog to defend on command.

For the last ~25yrs or so I've only owned "aggressive" breeds (Pits, Dobies, and the present Akita) but IME they don't need a command to defend, ever. If anything, a command to "back down" is much more desirable and useful but JMO and I would think would take a great deal of training.  To my knowledge, none of my dogs ever had to attack anyone, their mere presence was enough to get any possible bad guys to walk away (if there ever were any - I'll never know.)

It sounds as if you want a trained attack dog and that's something that's gonna take $$ & time to develop - not something I personally would want, perhaps just not my style.  There is a relationship that must be established with such animals that requires a good bit of time to get right, be absolutely certain you are willing to devote that time and then actually do it if and when you get the animal.  You must be certain you have the right kind of environment for these animals and you have to remain absolutely consistent with their training for them to be effective and responsive to all commands at all times.  IMO this requires a great commitment on your part, be sure you are ready to make that commitment.  Not trying to dissuade you from getting one, just a friendly reminder :)

I'm pleasantly surprised (though I shouldn't be) by the praise of Akitas here, not because I don't think they deserve it (IMO they do) but more because I rarely see them in parks, being walked, in kennels, or at the SPCA.  So it's nice to see the present and past owners speak so highly of them.

J

Quoted: For the Dobe owners, How well do they do in cold weather ?

Too lean for cold weather.  Here in ID my Dobies sleep inside at night, but that's what I want anyway.

ETA: I just saw some posts on Dobie health issues.  You want to buy from an excellent breeder, it costs more but is worth it.  Dobies from subpar lines can have many health problems.  I have dogs from Ryan's Dobermans, very expensive (you have to fly out to Arizona to see your pups, AFTER you have paid to reserve one, sign a non-breeding contract, then transport them back), but well worth it for a quality dog with no health issues AND several generations of known temperament.  Probably more than most want to spend, but you get the HK of Dobies.  I highly reccommend buying only from a premium breeder.  Also, avoid the so-called "King Dobermans" (usually 100+ pounds), they are a genetic abomination.  Dobies should not weigh 100+, the associated health problems give the dogs a very short, painful life.      

Quoted: Quoted: The best route to go in my opinion is to become involved yourself in something like Schutzhund of Ring Sport.  I train in Schutzhund (German for Protection Dog) and it has given me and my dog the ability to really understand what it takes to have a dog ready to defend you and yours.  This is no easy task and nothing you can master or fully understand by reading a post on the internet.  Dog training and handling is really a school of experience or of hard knocks.   So, instead of posting a small book worth of stuff I'll point you in the right direction so that you can decide if this long journey of dog ownership and protection training is worth it to you.  It can be one of the most rewarding things you'll ever do and the peace of mind that comes with having some form of back-up to help you protect your family is priceless in my opinion.     Good Luck.     Good post Buying a (insert breed) and thinking it will protect your family is like buying AR15 and thinking you are an operator. YMMV

Agreed.  

However, I also have to believe that certain breeds are going to be more "conducive" to positive, productive & pleasant  "family protection" than others.

Quoted: Quoted: For the Dobe owners, How well do they do in cold weather ? They are indoor dogs. Just fine outside for regular periods of activitiy, but they should live indoors. If anyone here thinks they have a dog that will instinctively protect them and their family they should have the dog go through a Temperament Test to find out the true situation. Lots of folks think their dog will but find out differently when placed under a real test. You never KNOW until then.

Thanks for the link.  

Quoted: as Jeff Cooper pointed out one time, you want a dog to be an alarm and a distraction, not an anti-personal mine. I had a bouvier de flanders for many years, obedience trained but nothing more.  She instinctively guarded but did not attack, was completely safe around children and could go from looking soft and cuddly to deep serious in well under a second. She divided the world into 'shepherds', 'sheep', and 'targets to be driven away. Unfortunately, the bov decided my wife was in the sheep category and would not do what she ordered it to do. When she died, we got a lab. Having said that, bovs are great. They don’t drop hair all over the place though you have to cut their hair like poodles. I just shaved ours off ever so often.

Bouvs are incredible. They look like these fuzzy dogs, but make no mistake they can be amazing protection dogs. The Germans issued "shoot on sight" orders for them during WWII, because they were infamous for being used to attack German troops.

Oh and all breeds have health issues. So once you settle on a breed research the crap out of the genetic problems and diseases.  Real good breeders of large breed dogs will have hips and elbows x-rayed of the Sire and Dam so ask about that (those dogs cost more, but the saving in potential health care is really worth it).  

Quoted: Quoted: I had two....loved them...great dogs but the breed has health issues.....I went to a mutt when they were gone.....much less vet bills........... Quoted: MHO they are indoor dogs....not enough coat to stay outdoors.....I had them in IL with no probs but they only played outside....lived indoors Are these posts in reference to the Dobe question ? Thanks.

Sorry, meant to quote....yes in reference to dobes.....

Quoted: my dobie just died,he was a great dog,definetly a indoor dog,his health was good right up until eleven days before he died,then i found out about thier heart problems and i guess cancer is very common he only lived eight years. i got to attached for only eight years so now i am trying to figure out what is next,i want a dobie just for longer

Exactly.......they are such a sweet dog that it kills you when they pass.....sorry to hear about your loss

Quoted: Military guard dogs have daily and weekly training.  Without it they'll fail. Mix a bit of nasty with some hamburger and they'll fail.

Excellent perspective.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For the Dobe owners, How well do they do in cold weather ? They are indoor dogs. Just fine outside for regular periods of activitiy, but they should live indoors. If anyone here thinks they have a dog that will instinctively protect them and their family they should have the dog go through a Temperament Test to find out the true situation. Lots of folks think their dog will but find out differently when placed under a real test. You never KNOW until then. Thanks for the link.

You're welcome, The Doberman Pinscher Club of America offers their own version of the temperament test called the WAE (working aptitude evaluation). Only about 31% of dogs tested pass the test. A lot of folks are shocked when their dog that they just KNOW will protect them turns tail and hides when the bad guy comes out. It's a real eye opener for some.

Here's my Kaiser at the end of the test, I was very proud of him :)

Quoted: Quoted: as Jeff Cooper pointed out one time, you want a dog to be an alarm and a distraction, not an anti-personal mine. I had a bouvier de flanders for many years, obedience trained but nothing more.  She instinctively guarded but did not attack, was completely safe around children and could go from looking soft and cuddly to deep serious in well under a second. She divided the world into 'shepherds', 'sheep', and 'targets to be driven away. Unfortunately, the bov decided my wife was in the sheep category and would not do what she ordered it to do. When she died, we got a lab. Having said that, bovs are great. They don’t drop hair all over the place though you have to cut their hair like poodles. I just shaved ours off ever so often. Bouvs are incredible. They look like these fuzzy dogs, but make no mistake they can be amazing protection dogs. The Germans issued "shoot on sight" orders for them during WWII, because they were infamous for being used to attack German troops.

they also have the BIG advange that noone knows about them so they don't scream "ATTACK DOG" to the sheep.