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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:37:16 AM EDT
[#1]
Active sonar.
ETA...the axis Navy would just have to ping wherever they go to find the offending sub (At least that's what I learned over 20 years of Tom Clancy books) |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:38:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Nope.
No GPS sats back then. A modern sub crew would get lost and never find it's targets 
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:39:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Again, moving on the from Civil War. This week's scenerio: The U.S. has one modern nuclear attack sub, whether is be Dallas, Virginia or Seawolf class at the beggining of WWII. The sub has unlimited reloads of modern torpedos and tomohawks through use of a resupply base in Scotland, or Hawaii. Could this one submarine have defeated the entire German or Japanese Navy if it was in the war from the very beggining? I think it would have been close. The sub itself would have been virtually silent during that time period, and I doubt the primitive ASDIC (sonar) could have picked it up. It wouldn't have to surface as Subs back then had to, so I doubt it could have been located by planes. It's modern torpedos would have been able to home in on ships with ease and it could have taken out an alarming amount of enemy formations in a single outing, being only limited by the amount of torpedos on hand. Also, don't forget that they carry Tomahawks for an oh crap factor. If they didn't completely destroy the Kreigsmarine or japanese navy, it would have scared them enough that no ship would even attempt to go out into the ocean. I doubt it could have been stopped. It is just too fast and quiet. What say you? Will the entire German and Japanese navy also have unlimted firepower? |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:39:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Active sonar. (At least that's what I learned over 20 years of Tom Clancy books) Yep. Same as any sub. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:39:54 AM EDT
[#5]
INS no need for GPS which is blocked by water....
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:40:04 AM EDT
[#6]
any sub that had icbm's could
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:40:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Without the help of any other ship I doubt it but if we add Nukes then yea I think the anwser is obvious.
Now, add a single modern sub to the war and had they took out the capital ships and made the oceans safer for the old 40s era ships the war would have been over much, much quicker then it was. Well at least in the pacific. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:41:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Nope. Construction rates would far surpass anything a single sub could hope to take out. It would mean favouring smaller ships over BB's and fleet carriers though.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:43:59 AM EDT
[#9]
I suspect the Seawolf, submerged, would have as high or higher speed than the destroyer screens it would be operating against. If the escorts had only depth charges and hedgehogs the Seawolf would probably smack them around. The only real danger would be mines in congested waters.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:44:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Unlimited tomahawks? That could have defeated Germany itself, leave alone its navy.
Just park it in Scotland, and surround it with literally your entire air force and navy so that there's no chance of anything hitting it. Rain tomahawks on Germany day and night for months on end. Germany surrenders. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:46:40 AM EDT
[#11]
An SSN might not be able to but the Nimitz surely can.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:48:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Tomahawks would be awesome if a guidance system worked well enough. It would have been damn hard to defeat if they played it safe and never got too close.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:48:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Dude, not even a contest. One Virginia would destroy everything on the seas, at will.
It'd be like giving Leonidas' Spartans all GPMGs. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:48:58 AM EDT
[#14]
How do you know it didnt happen?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:50:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Nope. Construction rates would far surpass anything a single sub could hope to take out. It would mean favouring smaller ships over BB's and fleet carriers though. Unlimited tomahawks being shot at german/french ship yards = shitty navy on the german side |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:50:53 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
An SSN might not be able to but the Nimitz surely can. Ah hell yeah.... you just made The Final Countdown play in my head. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:50:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
any sub that had icbm's could I came here to post this.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:51:54 AM EDT
[#18]
How fast can a modern sub travel submerged?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:52:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
any sub that had icbm's could That would be awesome! No one sees the launch, and no one sees a plane deliver the payload. President of the USA: so...do you want us to blow up another city while you watch closely or do you just want to get it over with and surrender now? |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:52:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Would a current day sub actually be able to communicate with the WW2 Navy?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:55:29 AM EDT
[#21]
It would of been formidable hunting Uboats and putting the Japanese Kido Butai down. If they could find a way to interface with WWII era torps (and make the US ones more reliable) it would have a sustained weapon resource.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:55:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
How fast can a modern sub travel submerged? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Most are over 30 kts. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:56:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
How fast can a modern sub travel submerged? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile 30+ knots |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:57:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Nope. Construction rates would far surpass anything a single sub could hope to take out. It would mean favouring smaller ships over BB's and fleet carriers though. Eh. Max loadout is 40 torpedoes. Maybe an 80% hit rate, something like 30 ships per sortie. Since no one can touch it she puts the pedal to the metal to and from the action areas to get back on station fast. The Germans had their fleet mostly in port during the war so the Seawolf would have been mostly irrelevant. But the Japanese would have been a different matter. Because her capabilities were so huge she wouldn't have to limit herself to sinking merchant ships. If she had found the Japanese fleet at sea I think she'd have sunk every carrier spotted, and probably most of the other capital ships too. Every encounter would be a mini-Midway. Sinking merchant shipping would really have just been a way to while away the hours. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:58:57 AM EDT
[#25]
I think the enemy Navy's could pin away with their primitive sonar all they want, and even if they found it by luck, there is little they could as it could easily run away and none of their torps could home in on it. It would just run to a safe distance and fire on them.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:00:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Assuming the sub prioritized Battleships and Carriers, the Japanese would not have had much of an effective Navy. However, it is unlikely that a single sub would be able to perform the suppy disruption that our many GATO class and other subs produced.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:02:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Not enough torpedoes on board and a conventional tipped Tomahawk would have a hard time sinking a WWII Battleship.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:04:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Not enough torpedoes on board and a conventional tipped Tomahawk would have a hard time sinking a WWII Battleship. You wouldn't have to sink it. Put one through the bridge, and it will be dry docked for months. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:07:15 PM EDT
[#29]
They didn't use submarines against the Kreigsmarine or the Imperial Navy. They used them against shipping. The nuke would have been nice because it would be able to escape from destroyers, but that's about it.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:15:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
They didn't use submarines against the Kreigsmarine or the Imperial Navy. They used them against shipping. The nuke would have been nice because it would be able to escape from destroyers, but that's about it. The IJS Shinano was sunk by a U.S. Submarine. She was the largest aircraft carrier in WW2. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:22:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
They didn't use submarines against the Kreigsmarine or the Imperial Navy. They used them against shipping. The nuke would have been nice because it would be able to escape from destroyers, but that's about it. Not quite true. These assessments indicate that United States submarines sank 540,192 tons of Japanese naval vessels, and 4,779,902 tons of merchant shipping during the course of the war, the total accounting for 54.6% of all Japanese vessel losses.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJN/JANAC-Losses/JANAC-Losses-6.html |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:23:15 PM EDT
[#32]
given resupply, logistics and intel, yes, a modern sub could have handled all the Japanese had.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:25:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Active sonar. ETA...the axis Navy would just have to ping wherever they go to find the offending sub (At least that's what I learned over 20 years of Tom Clancy books) Yeah, go ahead with that plan. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:26:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Would a current day sub actually be able to communicate with the WW2 Navy? Yes. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:27:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not enough torpedoes on board and a conventional tipped Tomahawk would have a hard time sinking a WWII Battleship. You wouldn't have to sink it. Put one through the bridge, and it will be dry docked for months. When the sub gets rearmed back in scotland, just shoot the german dry docks with a few tomahawks.... |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:29:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Not enough torpedoes on board and a conventional tipped Tomahawk would have a hard time sinking a WWII Battleship. Why would I use a Tomahawk against a battleship? Mk48 ADCAP would sink any battleship. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:29:26 PM EDT
[#37]
"Splash the Zeros...I say again...Splash the Zeros." |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:30:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
They didn't use submarines against the Kreigsmarine or the Imperial Navy. They used them against shipping. The nuke would have been nice because it would be able to escape from destroyers, but that's about it. Modern sensors and weapons are not only more accurate than their WWII counterparts, they vastly outrange them. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:36:56 PM EDT
[#39]
The max depth on modern subs is deeper then the depth charges they were using in WWII, so even if they happened to find it (even with active sonar the modern coating and silets running gear used would make it look like a rock or a whale), and even if they had half a chance of catching it (submerged speeds are equal to or better then most WWII destroyers) they wouldn't be able to destroy it before it managed to fire a spread of 6 torpedo's at every armed ship in the convoy.
Remember, the axis powers' radar and sonar ability was primitive even by the US standards of WWII, so the modern ability of a SSN would have them all plotted and targeted while they were still over the horizon and far out of range of any destroyers guns... With a good supply of torpedos (forget the tomahawks for now) it would have reduced the german and japanese navy to nothing but artificial reefs in a matter of weeks. Tokyo bay would have looked like Truk lagoon without ever knowing what hit them. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:37:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Pffffs.
 I would have her lay MK60 Captors at the mouth of all sea lanes between the two Axis navies. They would be too scared to traverse out. Anything with a specific acoustic signature gets it.  |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:40:21 PM EDT
[#41]
without a deck gun there were more targets than ordnance and no resupply. Now an OHIO no problem
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:40:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Nuke torpedoes would make quite an impact on their designated targets.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:44:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Seawolf loaded with Harpoon missiles could kill Japanese and German ships of the time outside the range of their guns. 35 knots submerged means she wouldn't be caught and a 2000 foot test depth means they couldn't reach her if by chance they found her.
I am sure the Mk48 would make short work of enemy subs too. Personally I believe that the Seawolf class is the deadliest sub ever built. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would a current day sub actually be able to communicate with the WW2 Navy? Yes. Are you sure? Keep in mind we no longer have requirements for morse code operators. And we can't transmit in all frequency bands either. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:46:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
They didn't use submarines against the Kreigsmarine or the Imperial Navy. They used them against shipping. The nuke would have been nice because it would be able to escape from destroyers, but that's about it. 
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:50:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Our sub wouldn't last as it will most likely run aground, get hit by a cargo ship, collide with another submarine, or catch on fire.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:56:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: They didn't use submarines against the Kreigsmarine or the Imperial Navy. They used them against shipping. The nuke would have been nice because it would be able to escape from destroyers, but that's about it. Yeah, lots of herp there. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 1:00:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Nope. No GPS sats back then. A modern sub crew would get lost and never find it's targets Inertial navigation system? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 1:01:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
The max depth on modern subs is deeper then the depth charges they were using in WWII, so even if they happened to find it (even with active sonar the modern coating and silets running gear used would make it look like a rock or a whale), and even if they had half a chance of catching it (submerged speeds are equal to or better then most WWII destroyers) they wouldn't be able to destroy it before it managed to fire a spread of 6 torpedo's at every armed ship in the convoy. Good point, but keep in mind that some areas of the sea are rather shallow, so it is conceivable that WWII era depth charges could reach the ocean floor and the sub. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 1:05:18 PM EDT
[#50]
No way in hell, within a few months the sub commander will crash into a reef, island, or underwater mountain.
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