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Posted: 4/22/2012 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#1]
6k -10k installed depending on name brand and all the bells and whistles
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:10:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Na, they'll pressure check and find the leak, solder shut and refill.
freon $50/ $65 lb x 4+/- lbs solder and labor $200 +/- bill comes in at roughly $480. Had mine done a few years ago, cost of freon was the only thing dude didn't cut me slack on. It's amazing how far being polite can get oneself. I didn't pay that much and it was a weekend call  I was told that freon is being phased out for a new refrigerant and will eventually have to buy a new system, but at least I can buy that. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:18:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Order and install your own split system. They come with R410a which does not require a license.
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Air_Conditioner_Full_Systems_s/1.htm |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:18:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Is your condenser fan turning on? The fan on the outdoor unit above the compressor.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:22:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Order and install your own split system. They come with R410a which does not require a license. http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Air_Conditioner_Full_Systems_s/1.htm I went this way but local through a plumber friend who bought me the units at his cost, the only problem is no factory warantee. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:25:42 PM EDT
[#6]
no warranty on internet sales and Goodman is a hughe POS at 25 years old you are doing yourself a favor to replace it with a new r410a system.
you should be somewhere between 5.5k to 9.5 k for the top of the line American Standard trane 18 seer system |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:26:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Is your condenser fan turning on? The fan on the outdoor unit above the compressor. Yep, both fans turn (outside and up in the attic) and the big black tank thingie under the fan outside gets hot to the touch so I assume it's working too, just not correctly. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm a butt-raper A/C guy
 Seriously, though. This business is a racket, and companies rip people off.
The 6-10K estimate isn't too far off of what a company would charge, but that also depends on whether or not ductwork is needed. The cost of the unit goes by tonnage and SEER rating. New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k. Do you have to have a heat pump unit? I could install an entire new system (Evap Coil, Furnace, and Condensor) for around $3500 Too bad you are a little too far away.
Your unit is probably an R22 system. They don't make it anymore thanks to the EPA, its now around $350-$400 a drum. Whats on the market is what companies are using and passing that cost on to customers, so a new system changeout to the new R410 is a good thing. They won't be able to rape you on freon charges. Don't let them push you into something you don't need, they do take advantage of people not knowing. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:28:34 PM EDT
[#9]
i had a new 3.5 ton amana 16 SEER installed at my house last year. $4.5K installed by small local guy. national chain wanted $9k.
ETA: based on above post, my new system was just plumbed into my existing duct work. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:33:03 PM EDT
[#10]
I bought a 2.5 ton unit with a natural gas furnace with lineset and dryer with fittings for $3200 a Goodman top of the line. Then I ripped out all the duct and did it properly for about $1500 in supplies. It took me 4 days, but I think I saved $10,000. The local thieves here wanted $6000 just to do a swap.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:37:53 PM EDT
[#11]
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:42:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. I'm intrigued by your statement and am curious as to what sort of parameters you used to come up with that. What was the cost differential between lowest and highest SEER units? Average summer temps? Expected lifespan of unit? I'm not arguing with you' we're a year from building and I genuinely want to hear you flesh this out. Also, I want to factor in the possibility of having a high-SEER unit so we can go further on propane/genset in case of major outage. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:43:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
i had a new 3.5 ton amana 16 SEER installed at my house last year. $4.5K installed by small local guy. national chain wanted $9k.
ETA: based on above post, my new system was just plumbed into my existing duct work. Me too but the POS compressor died 2 months later and It cost me another $500 with warranty and has'nt performed righ since..........FUCK AMANA which is a POS GOODMAN PRODUCT!!!! Buy a TRANE |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:45:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
A/C took a dump this week. I did my undereducated check over the system for obvious stuff like puffy capacitors and loose/broken wires but found nothing. Everything runs but the condensor gets hot to the touch and there's no cold air, it just blows sorta ambient temp air out. So my guess is I sprung a leak and the freon went bye-bye. Everything's about 20-25 yrs old. Pro's are coming this week to butt rape me with an evaluation. So what's the worst case scenario I'm looking at for an entire new unit + labor? Typical residential application, 3.5 ton unit? That's a large residential unit...make sure load calcs are performed. You don't want to have an over sized system installed. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:46:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. Sorry, I should have been more specific, I wasn't just speaking of 19-20 SEER units. I mean new units in general, todays higher SEER rating has helped efficiency, and its worth the money. You don't have to buy the expensive stuff, I didn't. I have the builder-grade equipment in my own house, Concord brand. 4T, 13 SEER, and the difference in the electric bill was noticeable. We went from a 3.5T, 10 SEER system. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:48:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. I'm intrigued by your statement and am curious as to what sort of parameters you used to come up with that. What was the cost differential between lowest and highest SEER units? Average summer temps? Expected lifespan of unit? I'm not arguing with you' we're a year from building and I genuinely want to hear you flesh this out. Also, I want to factor in the possibility of having a high-SEER unit so we can go further on propane/genset in case of major outage. A good and trusted friend at my church was been a commercial and residential HVAC contractor (a large company with lots of trucks and AC guys), and also, another excellent licensed PE I know, who works extensively in engineered systems, and I, have discussed an analyzed this ad nauseam. When it came down to it, ( I was replacing a pair of 5 ton units), the lowest SEER rating was obviously the better choice. I don't have the numbers anymore. There are so many other factors in power consumption to provide cooling and heating, that the heat pump efficiency is really of little importance. Yes, they can produce idealized number, but it never plays out that way. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:49:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Order and install your own split system. They come with R410a which does not require a license. http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Air_Conditioner_Full_Systems_s/1.htm are you sure about not needing EPA for 410A been in the field for 14y and never knew that I assumed 134a was the only one you don't need one for |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:56:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Order and install your own split system. They come with R410a which does not require a license. http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Air_Conditioner_Full_Systems_s/1.htm are you sure about not needing EPA for 410A been in the field for 14y and never knew that I assumed 134a was the only one you don't need one for the EPA says it isn't under the restrictions. its on their site. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 4:57:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. I'm intrigued by your statement and am curious as to what sort of parameters you used to come up with that. What was the cost differential between lowest and highest SEER units? Average summer temps? Expected lifespan of unit? I'm not arguing with you' we're a year from building and I genuinely want to hear you flesh this out. Also, I want to factor in the possibility of having a high-SEER unit so we can go further on propane/genset in case of major outage. A good and trusted friend at my church was been a commercial and residential HVAC contractor (a large company with lots of trucks and AC guys), and also, another excellent licensed PE I know, who works extensively in engineered systems, and I, have discussed an analyzed this ad nauseam. When it came down to it, ( I was replacing a pair of 5 ton units), the lowest SEER rating was obviously the better choice. I don't have the numbers anymore. There are so many other factors in power consumption to provide cooling and heating, that the heat pump efficiency is really of little importance. Yes, they can produce idealized number, but it never plays out that way. Hmmm. OK, in light of that, any trane dealers here want to tell me what to expect to spend to have (installed in a new house, ductwork put in during construction) a 3-ton unit on the lower end of the SEER range versus a similar unit on the high end of the SEER range? |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:01:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. I'm intrigued by your statement and am curious as to what sort of parameters you used to come up with that. What was the cost differential between lowest and highest SEER units? Average summer temps? Expected lifespan of unit? I'm not arguing with you' we're a year from building and I genuinely want to hear you flesh this out. Also, I want to factor in the possibility of having a high-SEER unit so we can go further on propane/genset in case of major outage. 13 SEER condensors can run about $800, and our company recently did a 20 SEER condensor. I remember them saying something that it was a $6500 condensor. I don't deal with the higher SEER stuff as nobody really wants to pay for it, so I can only say what I know on that. Lifespans can be 2 years to 20 years, it all just depends on the unit. You get a good, you get a bad one. I put a new system in my own house 7 years ago, have never serviced it, and it runs like a dream. My buddy at work went through 2 condensors (RUUD) in his own home in the last couple years. ETA: Cost also depends on the manufacturer......you don't have to have the name brand stuff for it to run well. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:04:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Order and install your own split system. They come with R410a which does not require a license. http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Air_Conditioner_Full_Systems_s/1.htm are you sure about not needing EPA for 410A been in the field for 14y and never knew that I assumed 134a was the only one you don't need one for If you believe the EPA's website, then yes I'm certain. Are there any restrictions on the purchase of hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerants? HFCs are not ozone-depleting substances, however they have high global warming potentials (GWPs). At this time the purchase of HFC refrigerants is not restricted. (For example, there is no technician certification requirement for those that purchase HFC refrigerants, such as R-410A or R-134a.) Is EPA technician certification required to service R-410A systems? No, at this time EPA technician certification (i.e., EPA Section 608 certification) is not required in order to service R-410A systems or other stationary refrigeration and air conditioning systems containing HFCs. EPA FAQ's |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:08:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I bought a 2.5 ton unit with a natural gas furnace with lineset and dryer with fittings for $3200 a Goodman top of the line. Then I ripped out all the duct and did it properly for about $1500 in supplies. It took me 4 days, but I think I saved $10,000. The local thieves here wanted $6000 just to do a swap. Where did you get your ductwork? What did you use insulated flexible ducts or sheet metal? |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:09:00 PM EDT
[#23]
leak test and refill unless you're keeping the house for another 10+ years. My unit is 28 years old and runs like a champ. I've replaced a few things myself that went out over the years like the condenser fan but it did start leaking a few years ago. Had the guy seal the fill point when charging and still runs fine. I'm selling the place very soon either wise I'd replace the whole thing.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:09:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Learned something new. So I can get rid of the last 3 years of refrigerant tracking records I just put in 275 # friday on a chiller HAHA
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:24:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
i had a new 3.5 ton amana 16 SEER installed at my house last year. $4.5K installed by small local guy. national chain wanted $9k.
ETA: based on above post, my new system was just plumbed into my existing duct work. Me too but the POS compressor died 2 months later and It cost me another $500 with warranty and has'nt performed righ since..........FUCK AMANA which is a POS GOODMAN PRODUCT!!!! Buy a TRANE mine has run like a top, and the compressor has a lifetime replacement warranty. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:30:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I bought a 2.5 ton unit with a natural gas furnace with lineset and dryer with fittings for $3200 a Goodman top of the line. Then I ripped out all the duct and did it properly for about $1500 in supplies. It took me 4 days, but I think I saved $10,000. The local thieves here wanted $6000 just to do a swap. No such thing as top of the line Goodman. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 6:01:36 PM EDT
[#27]
All the talk of the seer rating is of no use, unless you look at all of the other items. Insulation and heat load are the biggest concerns in the topic you are talking. I have installed 13 seer units that would not cool worth a hoot. Why because there was not proper insulation in the home along with poor construction. look into putting in all the insulation you can and double pane windows etc... i have installed them all, Amana Trane, goodman, etc....Trane units with varaible speed indoor evap motors top of the line. problem is they will all break and the simpler you can go the better. I have seen them all fail even trane. there is a true statement you get what you pay for sure. Right now R-410 A units are not measuring up either. The higher pressures are causing coils to fail and having to be replaced. Find a smaller contractor with a smaller overhead and get his quotes. Google and look at reviews for various systems and what opnions are. dont repeat dont just trust an A/C contractor he will tell you what he believes in. Fact is they are like fords and dodge and chevys every one has a favorite.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 6:22:29 PM EDT
[#28]
my customers with their 20 seer dual compressor systems brag about how much money they saved over their 13 seer ruud or goodman system. lower costs to operate, huge increase in comfort and with utility rebates Ij ust installed a 3 ton 19 seer system with new line set for 6500.
people that tell you the lowest seer are the best values are only looking for an easy sale not a happy customer that brings you more work by word of mouth |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 6:34:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
New units with a higher SEER are worth their money as they can lower your electric bill, with their larger coils and stuff. But from a company, expect $6k.
Not true. The higher SEER savings almost never covers the additional unit cost. Economically speaking, the builder's grade unit with lowest legal SEER is the most economical choice. I've done the math on this and you are correct. The payback time on higher SEER units is typically longer than the expected lifetime of the unit. You can do the math yourself or go find one of the online payback calculators. I took estimates from three companies for minimum SEER (which is 14 these days I think), mid-range, and top SEER, and in all cases the minimum federally required SEER came out ahead. The worst ROI was always on the top SEER unit, but none of the mid-grade SEERs made sense either. |
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